Unless you as an owner of an affected vehicle live in - or commute into - a major pollution-stricken city; or you have to get the 'fix' to remain in warranty (and it means a lot to you to do so), I would consider it reckless to be an early guinea pig for any alteration to your vehicle. 

News of any performance/economy changes post-'fix' will be swift to emerge (and relatively easy to test scientifically). Possible detrimental impacts on the lifetimes of hardware items will take much longer to be shown present/absent.

As a petrol head occasionally watching this thread I note that most owners seem rightly concerned about the devaluation and hassle and potential change in performance.  Fair enough.

 

With VW-Audi Group diesels making up about a twelfth of all new cars of the last 6 years or so and the apparently fact that they actually put between twice and six times as much dangerous Nitrogen Oxides in to the air we all breath as the lab tests on the VW engine showed it would be nice if SEAT, Skoda, VW and Audi affected diesel owners not only considered their plight with these cars but other people who suffer from the emissions of these cars, and other diesels,by driving their cars in consideration of the facts exposed by this scandal ie use a light foot, use an ECO setting and get the fix ASAP, and I am happy you get any compensation due, even if it bankrupts VAG who do not deserve to continue without totally changing their ethics, as this is the bigger picture ie public health rather than individual wealth.  Thanks for you time.   

 

 

I take it you know that it's not just VW's that emit on average 5 time as much NOx on the road or in the new WLTP cycle tests. Some manufacturers diesels have been up to 14 times the limit. (Volvo D3)

 

VW's diesels with the cheat software are actually pretty average for on the road NOX emissions.

 

And the UK, French and German Governments have agreed to relax the NOx limits by 100% for diesels in 2017 when WLTP testing starts because the emission sytems required to meet Euro 6 levels with a WLTP test would just price diesels out of the market.

This is yet to be agreed with the EU.

 

For me the limit should stay as it is and if diesels become too expensive I'll buy Petrol.

 

Lee

Has anyone got a clear concise over view of what has gone on in the last month or so. If they do could they post up a single post (please no ruddy links) with a description of what is actually known. not speculation or opinion, but the actual facts. Imagine someone coming to this thread as a new member, they will never be able to get up to speed, so a mid season summary would be useful (must admit I could do with one). Perhaps bullet points in a timeline or something. The incredible amount of posting on the subject shows I obviously have missed an awul lot of the story

 

I thought it simply went

• VAG got busted
• VAG admitted they'd been naughty
• VAG got busted a bit more
• VAG said they would fix the cars (software and hardware as required)
• Some places wont let VAG sell diesels
• The fat lady hasn't sung

But I'm obviously missing a lot? There are so many links in this thread and which are not marked as to what they are, (please guys use the Link button and add a custom text) that it makes following developments a real chore. This thread, which could be a really good and easy to use resource, seems to becoming a personal Fiefdom for a handful of people hurling links at each other. It didn't start like that

 

All my opinion of course

Have you opened the Friday night bottle of wine early today?

 

 

Does it help against NO and PM poisoning if so I am in and can I get tax relief like Bill Werbeniuk did for booze?

Has anyone got a clear concise over view of what has gone on in the last month or so. If they do could they post up a single post (please no ruddy links) with a description of what is actually known. not speculation or opinion, but the actual facts. Imagine someone coming to this thread as a new member, they will never be able to get up to speed, so a mid season summary would be useful (must admit I could do with one). Perhaps bullet points in a timeline or something. The incredible amount of posting on the subject shows I obviously have missed an awul lot of the story

 

I thought it simply went

• VAG got busted
• VAG admitted they'd been naughty
• VAG got busted a bit more
• VAG said they would fix the cars (software and hardware as required)
• Some places wont let VAG sell diesels
• The fat lady hasn't sung

But I'm obviously missing a lot? There are so many links in this thread and which are not marked as to what they are, (please guys use the Link button and add a custom text) that it makes following developments a real chore. This thread, which could be a really good and easy to use resource, seems to becoming a personal Fiefdom for a handful of people hurling links at each other. It didn't start like that

 

All my opinion of course

 

 

Just missed out the bit where VW have dumped tonnes of extra lethal poisions in to the atmosphere and will get fined billions pro-rata like BP for it by the US and others.

I thought it simply went

• VAG got busted
• VAG admitted they'd been naughty
• VAG got busted a bit more
• VAG said they would fix the cars (software and hardware as required) when they have worked out how.
• VAG will not charge for any rectification work.
• Some places wont let VAG sell diesels
• The fat lady hasn't sung

 

 

Just 2 little additions, Amanda. Otherwise looks fine.

 

And now I expect one of the usual suspects will argue about it!!

The original thread was about the USA recall due to VWs diesel emissions. But now that Europe is involved and different counties have differing ideas on how to act I lost my way. As I have said I don't have enough hours in the day to click every flipping link that's been stuck up here. God only knows if any of them actually go to Madam Fiffy's House of Latex or an American Newspaper report?

 

Several years ago I took on the task of collating the 'next word' thread and making a single giant post so people could read the story it had incrementally made  (it might have been a 3 word thread, I cant remember) it took me hours of work, but it at least brought the whole thing together. That's what I would like in here, except a bit more serious of course.

If they had any sense then they would offer VAG Group customers £500 - £1000 ontop of any valuation of your vehicle when it comes to trade in therefor offsetting the impact of the devaluation on their customers but simultaneously guaranteeing loyalty.

 

What if you have no intention of trading your car in for another one?

 

I've had min one year today and had no intention of getting rid of it for (hopefully) many years.

What if you have no intention of trading your car in for another one?

 

I've had min one year today and had no intention of getting rid of it for (hopefully) many years.

 

Me either but it would go someway to mitigate the massive PR disaster this has been. 

True, but only helps those that are wanting to trade in.

 

A =n acquaintance of mine when this first kicked off was saying would be getting the full value of his car back plus compensation on top!!! I know where he was living: Cloud cuckoo land...

Well my car went on for a mot on monday it passed of course :0 and he said ( the tester) its good never sell it as it will never fail emmissions ! So he said " dont fix it "

True, but only helps those that are wanting to trade in.

A =n acquaintance of mine when this first kicked off was saying would be getting the full value of his car back plus compensation on top!!! I know where he was living: Cloud cuckoo land...

If VW diesels or any other brand/version are superior (reliable?) to all those other brands that mere plebs drive, why not simply extend the warranty and get a bit of positive publicity as well as owner/dealer relief......as an immediate first step?.

The obvious answer is..........................

SEAT/SKODA/VW warranty 60K miles, just about every one else 100K warranty, hmmm (or pay extra for extension!)

GreenCarReports

The EU has decided to extend the 2x 'tests' NOx limit for on road from 2017 to 2020 as a result of manufacturer pressure.

GreenCarReports

The EU has decided to extend the 2x 'tests' NOx limit for on road from 2017 to 2020 as a result of manufacturer pressure.

 

Manufacturers say they can't meet Euro 6 with the new WLTP real world tests without adding an average of £2000 to the cost of the diesel and it will also reduce economy.

 

But there are 16 regions in the UK with illegal levels of NOx and the proposed ULEZ legislation was to allow Euro 6 engines free entry but tax older diesels. I can see now that this will have to change as it's now known that even Euro 6 diesels emit on average 5 times more NOx than the current limit and even 2017-2020 diesel will emit twice as much as the petrol.

 

We'll have to wait and see. It's European manufacturers that have heavily invested in diesels. Around the world there's been more invested in other technologies, The EU was frightened of crippling the diesel market and putting EU manufacturers at a disadvantage.

 

All at the expense of public health in our cities and built up areas.

 

Lee

Interesting article here.

http://www.airqualitynews.com/2015/10/27/vw-cheating-unlikely-to-have-impacted-on-uk-no2-defra/

Rory Stewart MP is interesting in that he can often say that Black is White without Blinking lots or blushing.

He is a man that the Conservative Party can rely on to toe the Party Line and the Government line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_Stewart

 

Must bookmark this, and remember what he said on the 27th October and what he says in the not too distant future.

Once things have been  'reviewed'.

Maybe when he is making a TV Programme or writing a book on Climate Change.

Maybe when he is a NE Director of some Oil Producing Corporation, 

or maybe it will it be while working for Greenpeace?

Manufacturers say they can't meet Euro 6 with the new WLTP real world tests without adding an average of £2000 to the cost of the diesel and it will also reduce economy.

 

But there are 16 regions in the UK with illegal levels of NOx and the proposed ULEZ legislation was to allow Euro 6 engines free entry but tax older diesels. I can see now that this will have to change as it's now known that even Euro 6 diesels emit on average 5 times more NOx than the current limit and even 2017-2020 diesel will emit twice as much as the petrol.

 

We'll have to wait and see. It's European manufacturers that have heavily invested in diesels. Around the world there's been more invested in other technologies, The EU was frightened of crippling the diesel market and putting EU manufacturers at a disadvantage.

 

All at the expense of public health in our cities and built up areas.

 

Lee

 

Agree with what you say but would point out that the Nissan-Renault Alliance has gone big in to electric with the Leaf and the Zoe over ten of thousand sold and with the up-coming restrictions (ie payments) on any non-ULEZ first in London and Paris in 4 years time and probably other cities to follow some manufacturers are more ready than others.  You can get a new Leaf or Zoe for under £10K now.  Zac Goldsmith and Sadiq Kahn have made air pollution big issues in their London mayor campaigns and other large British cities are likely to follow or adopt measures like banning registrations with odd numbers one day and evens the next which several ciites do during the bad pollution times.    http://www.itv.com/news/2015-04-29/supreme-court-pollution-ruling-will-mean-major-crackdown-on-diesel-vehicles/ 

Supreme Court pollution ruling will mean major crackdown on diesel vehicles

London basks in bad air pollution    Photo: PA Wire

The government will have to clamp down fast on haulage fleets and older buses in order to comply with European air pollution standards, experts have said.  Environmental group ClientEarth won a major victory at the Supreme Court today, after five years of legal battles, which legally obliges the UK to act quickly to comply with EU legislation on NO2 in the air. And now diesel-powered cars, trucks and buses could have had their day.

 

 You can get a new Leaf or Zoe for under £10K now.  

Where?

Nissan quote the cheapest leaf at £15,790 + £70 a month to hire the batteries.

Renault quote the cheapest Zoe at £13,445 + hiring the batteries, or £18,440 with the batteries.

I am guessing these prices include the £5000 government subsidy.

Went into dealers today for three year service and Mot service manager informed me that VW have until the end of the month to come up with a fix. Advice given if the fix is detrimental to the car don't bring it in.

That's actually not a fix at all is it.its putting the problem back onto the customer.We shall see.

When a Nissan/Renault can get an electric car that does 100 miles a day at 80mph+ then they can send me a brochure. Until then it doesn't matter how much they cost.

 

Lee

When a Nissan/Renault can get an electric car that does 100 miles a day at 80mph+ then they can send me a brochure. Until then it doesn't matter how much they cost.

 

Lee

 

Exactly, when someone can produce an electric car that will get me to Hampshire and back in one day and carry the equivalent of a Superb bootful of survey equipment I'll think about buying one.  :think:

Went into dealers today for three year service and Mot service manager informed me that VW have until the end of the month to come up with a fix. Advice given if the fix is detrimental to the car don't bring it in.

That's actually not a fix at all is it.its putting the problem back onto the customer.We shall see.

End of October or November?

Where?

Nissan quote the cheapest leaf at £15,790 + £70 a month to hire the batteries.

Renault quote the cheapest Zoe at £13,445 + hiring the batteries, or £18,440 with the batteries.

I am guessing these prices include the £5000 government subsidy.

 

My dealer Savilles has a couple at under £10K.  Dealer registered a few months ago.  There are other examples about with the dealer and Renault discount adding up to about £7K I think. 

When a Nissan/Renault can get an electric car that does 100 miles a day at 80mph+ then they can send me a brochure. Until then it doesn't matter how much they cost.

 

Lee

 

They recently did 1000 miles in a day in a Zoe.  The Zoe uses their Chamelon charger using 3 phase AC at 43 Kw/60 hp feed which can can give significant charge in a few minutes ie when you stop for a comfort break. Plan is the charge should take a similar to time to filling up the car with diesel or petrol of course.   Zoe range is suppose to be 240 Km in extra urban style driving but is affected by temperature like most batteries ie the cooler it is the less it is.  High capacity charge are rolling out quite quick. Only large electrics I can think is the Tesla but some go from the hybrid PHEV of course with potential over 100 mpg and charging for almost free.