13 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

Vorsprung Durch Technik 

Never be an early adopter with a VW.

 

Now the Mii electric or the e-Citigo is another matter.

VW have had 5 years of producing the e-Up!, surely then SEAT & Skoda can turn out a car that is really ready to go issue free.

But then the 3 models will all be getting built in the same factory.

I guess the location of the battery supply will be fundamentally important for quite some time when it comes to factory location.

In the UK the readiness of the Dealership Network Workshops and employees will be the issue.

They need all the gear and a bit more than just an idea, training of front or house and back shop would be a good start.

Training and knowledge of the products, and starting with when the cars can be ordered, how long really until delivery etc.

Don't rush.

 

 

It’s a good thing ICE cars never burn down.

After more than a century VW can not stop H20 getting into the cabin of passenger vehicles via poor door / hatch seals and keep coolant in engines / cooling systems due to sourcing crap water pumps then blaming the 'wrong coolant' which they sourced.

Going electric is about as near to going back air cooled as VW can get.

Rear engine, rear wheel drive and have drain holes to let the water out, sorted.

I won’t miss a reduction in the number of volatile fuel tankers on our roads or rail.

Not heard of many Road or Rail Tanker fires in the UK, but certainly run away trains in the USA.

 

The Liquid and gas Fuel Tankers and petrochemical tankers will be leaving refineries just the same to supply manufacturers etc.

Then the Aero fuels transportation is not reducing anytime soon.

Yeah, I've heard of more runaway trains in the USA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSX_8888_incident than road tanker fires in the UK.

2 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

The Liquid and gas Fuel Tankers and petrochemical tankers will be leaving refineries just the same to supply manufacturers etc.

And EVs will still need lubricants (oils for electric motors - traction and HVAC - and grease for bearings in the suspension) so switching 100% to EVs won't get rid of the need for refining crude oil into essential lubricants for vehicles and industries. Synthetic oils and made by recombining distilled fractions so they aren't a solution...

 

And what will the refineries do with the unwanted fractions (gasoline and diesel) that there will no longer be a market for? Yes, they can adjust the refining process to reduce the amount of them produced but they can't AFAFIK eliminate them completely - so will they just burn them off ☠️?

The avtur goes by pipe to the airport.......out here at least.

Nice to know that the roads will be safer in any case.

They really can not change the refining product by that much, but nothing will be going to waste.

You will get the different weights of spirits and use just as much energy producing them from crude oils. 

 

Lots of Pipelines here in the UK as well, Gas / Oil,  and then avtur, all very vulnerable to terrorists,

many are needing updating, like the Forties Pipeline running from the North East of Scotland to Grangemouth that INEOS bought a couple of years back and then had a leak with and closed down.

It runs just a mile and a half from my house.

 

 

 

Edited 18 June, 20196 yr by Skoffski

3 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

The avtur goes by pipe to the airport.......out here at least.

Nice to know that the roads will be safer in any case.

Seriously? You do realise that Oz spec Avtur is basically kerosene, so you need to try to get it to catch fire?

1 minute ago, KenONeill said:

Seriously? You do realise that Oz spec Avtur is basically kerosene, so you need to try to get it to catch fire?

I thought it was ICAO spec.

It’s not necessarily safer down the back either -

 

42 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

And what will the refineries do with the unwanted fractions (gasoline and diesel) that there will no longer be a market for? Yes, they can adjust the refining process to reduce the amount of them produced but they can't AFAFIK eliminate them completely - so will they just burn them off ☠️?

One thing you have to remember is that efficiency increases as you scale up.

 

So you can produce more electricity per litre of fuel. With high efficiency of EV, it may be possible to achieve same tailpipe emission IF you power a car entirely from refined oil products. This method may sound pointless, but it has two major benefits:  move pollution away from population centre; electricity is more flexible as a source of power, it is easier and more efficient to convert electricity to other forms of power (kinetic, computational, etc)

More materials in cars will be coming from vegetation & organic materials, starches and proteins / fungis etc produced in sustainable ways.

Obviously still transported in the main by diesel vehicles for at least the next decade.

 

Just need to make it less inviting to mice and rats like some of the wiring looms are now.

 

Also they just need more EV's doing the mining for the minerals also required.

Required to build the vehicles and the equipment to generate the renewables.    Long way to go before the end of ICE vehicles, but you need to start someplace.

VW can recycle mouldy carpets.

 

http://carkeys.co.uk/news/your-next-car-could-be-made-of-fungus

 

 

Edited 18 June, 20196 yr by Skoffski

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/vw-defends-launch-high-priced-mass-market-ev

Ireland to ban new ICE sales from 2030 -  (only a decade)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48668791

Not the end, not even the beginning of the end but maybe the end of the beginning.

Ireland will very likely still have ICE vehicles on the roads in the next 30 years or more from 2030, or maybe the other EU countries will buy them all off the owners and give them a free EV.

 

4 hours ago, Ryeman said:

Ireland to ban new ICE sales from 2030 -  (only a decade)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48668791

I'm working in Ireland this week and l was listening to the discussion on the radio yesterday about Ireland's plans to tackle climate change. One comment was that currently there is non or very little infrastructure for EV charging in rural areas. Still they have ten years to sort it out. I would imagine that the sales of new petrol and diesel cars in the year or two before 2030 will be high if EV's are still at a high price. Also in the plan is a ban on oil and gas boilers in new houses. One scheme is to convert older houses to heat pumps, which was quoted at an average cost per house of 48000 euros. Not sure how many people would be up for that. Still waiting to hear how governments will make up for the shortfall in taxes when petrol and diesel consumption falls away. 

The Cons in Australia have their heads deep in the sand.

Not a mention of the most significant industrial event since the T Model first appeared but lots of frowning at the prospect of working out a new revenue model.

On 25/05/2019 at 16:06, wyx087 said:

This is a big problem with EV's in Europe. The stupid requirement to carry your own cable for destination charging.

 

In America, all charge points have cable. The slow domestic charging cable at back of the car is for emergency only. Normally, you just rock up and plug in, like at "gas" stations.

Exactly!  For EV's to become mainstream they have to stop being for green geeks and start being for the EV clueless who have been brought up on the convenience and luxury of petrol and diesel.  The requirements for mass adoption are:

1.) Tesla, CCS and CHADEMO abolished in favour of one ISO standard charging socket (ok a separate socket design with higher power rating is allowed for commercial lgv's etc ).  Every petrol pump comes complete with a nozzle that fits every petrol car, so every EV Charging point should have a built in plug that fits every car.  Every car and charger should be able to talk to each other via a common standard communication protocol.

2.) All public charge points should be able to charge at over 200Kwh.  Yes, a slower, more battery friendly rate should be available by user choice, but when people are in a hurry to get to a destination they don't want to wait for weeks to charge at 20 odd Kwh.

3.) Except for deliberately designed city cars e.g. Citigo, all cars should be available with ranges of 300 miles minimum and able to charge quickly on an occasional basis if required without suffering serious detriment to the battery.  All should be fitted with the common ISO charge socket design, and be vandal resistant i.e. no little flimsy plasticky flap costing £300 as a replacement unit (plus fitting and paint matching) that must stick up like a flag, ready to be easily snapped off by passing vandals when a charger is plugged in.  The flam should be able to close over the charge plug once connected, and lock shut till charging is complete.

4.) No wacky looks or cabin decor.  Evolution not revolution.  People don't like radical change, give them what they know and are comfortable with.  Wood, chrome, and leather, not feng shuei'd vegan interiors in neon colours with paper seats made from recycled bamboo and healing crystals for control switches.

5.) For home charging, cars should be "smart", co-operating with the domestic supply to minimise the cost, e.g. sacrificially supply power to the home at peak electric price times and replenish in the middle of the night in order to minimise overall electricity costs.

6.) Cheaper vehicles.  Until the manufacturing costs comes down, the additional up front cost of a full ev versus the petrol equivalent will always make the petrol the leading contender for most people.  Some progress on battery cost per KWh is being made, but it is still a deciding factor for many at present.

 

I think some legislation and standard setting process is the only way however that this state will be reached quickly.  Without it the various parties with financial motives will all fight their own corner to the bitter end and mass adoption will take longer as a result.

A ‘tail dragger’ ...........mind boggling -

https://electrek.co/2019/06/18/eviation-electric-cape-air/

Edited 18 June, 20196 yr by Ryeman

An interesting review of the current barriers to growing EV ownership. Time to charge from home plug, low power public chargers, broken public chargers, too far between higher power chargers.  He liked the Audi though, just not everything else.

 

 

 

 

A second (commuting) car for most should be perfect for those with a garage/off street parking and local city work.

I don’t understand the angle that all vehicles should be replaced immediately by purely electric vehicles otherwise it can’t be done at all.   That’s ridiculous.