Diesel engines fix recall

[Sarge]

Have Skoda UK/VAG actually stated in writing that the mods will not result in changes to fuel economy or performance?

Yes, the letter specifies no adverse impact on fuel economy etc.

[CWARD]

Doesn't state anything about reliability though does it.

[Ecomatt]

Doesn't state anything about reliability though does it.

Given that all it is a software update I highly doubt it would cause any long term issues. It is no different than a remap. The update alters the pilot injection and spray pattern to improve combustion.

[Ootohere]

Possibly cause more fueling and regens. 

But seeing as there are PDF & EGR issues that VW seem to dismiss, 'whats the worst that can happem?'

[CWARD]

Given that all it is a software update I highly doubt it would cause any long term issues. It is no different than a remap. The update alters the pilot injection and spray pattern to improve combustion.

 

"Given that all it is a software update" strange then that they had to cheat to beat the system in the first place. I'm sure they be some trade off for not doing it to begin with such as premature fuel pump or injector wear or as Offski stated PDF or EGR issues which would no longer be covered by warranty so the consumer has to pickup the bill. 

[sthazza]

Yeah that's the only point I can see off the back of not having it done is whether they would then Welch out on warranty issues because the work hasn't been done as they issue a certificate to state it's been done

[Breezy_Pete]

Given that all it is a software update I highly doubt it would cause any long term issues. It is no different than a remap. The update alters the pilot injection and spray pattern to improve combustion.

 

Software controls every aspect of engine operation, including all the emissions equipment, so 'all it is is a software update' could easily mean 'everything has changed'.

Improved combustion isn't the goal of this update either, it's to reduce NOx emissions such that the cars pass the EU5 testing without having a special software mode specially invoked for the test.

That actually means less optimal (from an efficiency viewpoint) combustion with lower peak temperatures (or better aftertreatment, but that would require hardware changes in the exhaust system).

Edited 15 December, 2016 by Wino

[Ecomatt]

Software controls every aspect of engine operation, including all the emissions equipment, so 'all it is is a software update' could easily mean 'everything has changed'.

Improved combustion isn't the goal of this update either, it's to reduce NOx emissions such that the cars pass the EU5 testing without having a special software mode specially invoked for the test.

That actually means less optimal (from an efficiency viewpoint) combustion with lower peak temperatures (or better aftertreatment, but that would require hardware changes in the exhaust system).

Without knowing how they have altered the software and pilot injection, it is hard to speculate. But looking at how Pilot injection works and the advances in understanding how it helps lower cylinder pressure and increase the cylinder temperature to aid with combustion. I cannot see any downsides. I wouldnt worry about any extra strain on engine parts as I am sure there would be less than any strain a remap will place on the same parts. If the egr breaks it is more than likely on its way out anyway. The cars are getting old now and faults are to be expected.

[Dave3283]

Yeah that's the only point I can see off the back of not having it done is whether they would then Welch out on warranty issues because the work hasn't been done as they issue a certificate to state it's been done

 

This is what I am thinking, as I am not getting my car remapped until the warranty is up as I have 9 months left, would declining it now result in Skoda refusing a future warranty repair as I had declined the recall/update.

 

[Ootohere]

?

Have the Volkswagen Group sent you a document with the change of Terms & Conditions of your original Manufacturers Warranty saying you must have 'The Fix' carried out or they will invalidate the Warranty?

 

I expect not!

[CWARD]

Without knowing how they have altered the software and pilot injection, it is hard to speculate. But looking at how Pilot injection works and the advances in understanding how it helps lower cylinder pressure and increase the cylinder temperature to aid with combustion. I cannot see any downsides. I wouldnt worry about any extra strain on engine parts as I am sure there would be less than any strain a remap will place on the same parts. If the egr breaks it is more than likely on its way out anyway. The cars are getting old now and faults are to be expected.

 

It is lower combustion temperatures that reduce the NOX emissions hence the need for EGR. Easiest way to reduce the NOX output is for the Cat to do more work in burning it off, more work would lead to a reduced life. These aren't cheap to replace compared to the cost of a software update that made it work harder.

[Ecomatt]

It is lower combustion temperatures that reduce the NOX emissions hence the need for EGR. Easiest way to reduce the NOX output is for the Cat to do more work in burning it off, more work would lead to a reduced life. These aren't cheap to replace compared to the cost of a software update that made it work harder.

But if you think about it logically, if the cars had been released without the cheat and the software update from the word go. Then none of this would be happening and that would be classed as the norm for the engine operation.

I cant see it having a massive effect on the egr as all it means is that it will stay open slightly longer during cruising. Yes the dpf will work more and I know they arent cheap. But it would be good to know how much more it is working percentage wise per cycle. However like any used car ownership, it will eventually need replacing at some point. For that reason alone I purchased a 2 year warranty for £400 and that covers the engine, gearbox and dpf etc in cae of a fault.

[CWARD]

If they could have done it without the cheat they would have. The reason for not doing so must have had an effect elsewhere; economy, performance, maintenance or reliability. They've already stated in their letter in regards to the first two not affected but nothing on the second two! Your warranty is an insurance policy through a third party. Do you really think if they see a sudden increase in cat and DPF failures after this update they will not put the fault back to VAG for the software update via a clause especially as the car has been modified from when you took the policy out?. This will leave you having to argue with VAG who have already appeased the governments who have the clout to enforce action but you as a consumer wouldn't as you would have to prove them at fault which you don't have the finances to do.   

 

I suggest you go and read the t&c's on your warranty to see how watertight it is in protecting the provider from a huge future bills.

[skomaz]

If they could have done it without the cheat they would have. The reason for not doing so must have had an effect elsewhere; economy, performance, maintenance or reliability.

 

I know where you are coming from but they may have been technically able to do it without the cheat - but at a financial cost that would have made it unviable...

[CWARD]

I would agree if mechanical but software once written has minimal cost to implement. The developments in software engineering haven't evolved that much since the car was designed without the sensors needed to monitor and nothing over than software is being installed.

[simoncb]

I have had the 'fix' done in mid September and have about 2.5k driving since. The letter said there would be no loss of performance or mpg. My experience is:

 

1. about 2-3 mpg less per gallon. This is based on both the rather optimistic software and fill to fill figures at the pump. It may even be slightly worse than this at times.

 

2. while the overall output of the engine might be similar, there are now some less welcome changes. I drive motorway, cross country and a small amount round town. The most noticeable changes are

A) I would say it takes longer to warm up as the journey mpg figures take longer to rise

B) There are some slower hills where the car does not hold its speed in the same way and I have to drop a gear. 

C) Normally in town I can drive happily at 30 in 4th gear. Recently it was indicating that I should drop to 3rd. That might have been a blip as it has only occurred once but was quite unusual.

 

The trouble is that the letter arrives in an envelope which suggests that the DVLA are involved so just refusing to have the work done would, I imagine lead to some action by them later eg MOT failure. Bear in mind too that it may be a long time coming for some as I was about 10k into the scheme which has a cohort of about 250k vehicles involved.

 

I did see a class action lawyer's website where they want to sue VAG and get compensation in a similar way to America. If there was no effect at all then I would not be particularly bothered. However there is a negative effect and I don't see why we should bear the outcome of what was a scam which must have taken place at a very high level in VW with the knowledge of senior management.

 

This is a 2l 16valve 140bhp octavia estate, btw. My wife says it isn't very different to drive from her point of view but has noticed the fuel consumption when driving 36 miles to and from her Mother's. 

 

Hope this helps. 

[Sarge]

This is interesting. I had the fix done - garage actually did it then told me afterwards, so wasn't best pleased. Anyway, my experience so far is that warm up time and mpg are no different and, perhaps bizarrely, if anything my vRS is now quicker than before and seems to respond better to pushing the accelerator!

[pastiche]

I am still waiting like the rest of you for the final letter, received two so far its to be done.Strange thing happened other day which meant filling up at a Jet garage, it was going for £1.14!.The tank was nearly empty but when pulling away,jeez where did that come from? it fairly flew up the road as if a few more ggs had been added.Consumption still around 48-50mpg.

[Uppercottage]

Had the 'fix' done a few weeks ago, no noticeable difference in any performance parameter.

[Quiksilver_TR]

Had mine done 20/12/2016.

Had the car rolling roared before, straight after the dealers recall work and then had it re-mapped

No performance change between before and after the "fix"

The guy mapping my car (Chris), said the files on the ECU were completely different layout and the things he was looking for to change etc weren't in the same places he expected them to be. Got there in the end though.

Edited 22 December, 2016 by Quiksilver_TR

[Ecomatt]

Looking at that graph it appears the update actually improves the mid range power marginally. I would presume through better understanding of how to map diesels to pass emissions by VAG. I will get mine done once Superchips have looked at the update and how to update the ecu once done.

[Ootohere]

No manufacturer has cars doing Regens during EU testing, and they are not while on a Dyno.

 

How often cars after 'The Fix' do regens will be what matters if owners are feeling no difference or an improvement after the Fix.

Next Summer or after the winter might be when drivers will or will not notice changes, after all then there should be higher ambient temps.

 

Handy how VW have delayed UK /Eutopean fixes until later in 2016.

[Dave3283]

Had mine done 20/12/2016.

Had the car rolling roared before, straight after the dealers recall work and then had it re-mapped

No performance change between before and after the "fix"

The guy mapping my car (Chris), said the files on the ECU were completely different layout and the things he was looking for to change etc weren't in the same places he expected them to be. Got there in the end though.

Hi Quiksilver_TR this is exactly what I was looking for, someone who has had the fix done and then remap by a third party so cheers for posting your results.

I think by the time I get my remap done the tuner will have had a few of these through his door but it's good info to know that the fix changes the ECU layout.

Just a quick question, what were your reasons for having the fix done and then remap rather than decline the fix and go straight to remap?

I'm thinking of doing the same as you so that the car has the box ticked on Skoda's system then remap although my car will be driven for a while between the fix and remap.

Cheers Dave

[Quiksilver_TR]

Just a quick question, what were your reasons for having the fix done and then remap rather than decline the fix and go straight to remap?

I'm thinking of doing the same as you so that the car has the box ticked on Skoda's system then remap although my car will be driven for a while between the fix and remap.

Cheers Dave

Dave,

2 reasons for doing it the way I did.

1- I was curious as to see if the claims of no performance change was true, if it was a false claim I wanted to know how and where it was different.

2- I wanted the box ticked with Skoda, just incase of future dealer works or DVLA/government changes.

The US are claiming against VW for this (yes I know it's for NO2 emissions which the UK doesn't currently check for) so there is no reason why the UK dvla/government couldn't turn around and sting us for not having it reworked in the future. Just me being cynical.

[mallet]

just come back from having 2010 vrs emissions recall. I enquired about any warranty on work carried out and got told that I was the first person to ask about it and that vw/skoda haven't issued any warranty update so if something goes wrong in the near future I will have to fight to prove it was due to them. Jury is out on performance and fuel economy.