Diesel engines fix recall

[Dave3283]

Thanks Quiksilver_TR I was curious about the no performance change as there appears to be a rough 50/50 who have seen issues against those that don't, for me your post confirms that there appears to be no change for the worse.

I too am cynical regarding future dealer works and dvla which is pushing me down the same route as yourself.

I now have my car booked for the 29th December.

Edited 23 December, 2016 by Dave3283

[Ootohere]

The DVLA, DVSA or DfT are not pushing you in any way. 

There is no Safety Issues and no DVSA Recall.  They are just giving Registered Keeper Contact Details.

http://gov.uk/check-if-a-vehicle-has-been-recalled

These are Recalls, not Voluntary Recalls.

 

Skoda Safety Recall Actions, not even recalls because not all Registered Keepers get contacted,

just those on the Skoda System, & sometimes like with the DSG Service Campaign the DVLA give Contact Details to the VW Group.

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions

 

Dealership & Agents doing the work on behalf of the Volkswagen Group might like to think any comeback is to the VW Group.

*They might well be the ones needing to have a fight with the VW Group, not just play 3 monkeys.*

The employee asking the owner to sign the acceptance of having 'The Fix' needs to know where they stand in this transaction if things go wrong with customers 

cars and it can be proved that it does.

 

They better go and check their legal position acting as Agents for the VW Group and accepting payment then working on Private Individuals vehicles.

They can not just think that they have no responsibility other than taking Software and applying it to peoples property, even if the owners accepts the 

update approved by the Regulatory Body in Germany.

Edited 23 December, 2016 by Offski

[LordRaiden84]

This is all very interesting stuff. My MOT is booked in tomorrow first thing with a Skoda dealer and I have received the emissions fix letter. I am not going to mention it to them and if they fix it without my permission I will consider taking action against them. Car is remapped and a friend basically advised it is not a legal requirement to have it fixed. Why should I travel all the way to Mansfield at my own expense to have it re-remapped again?

 

I seriously don't see the point unless someone can provided concrete evidence my car will be better after the fix.

[Wet Kipper]

I seriously don't see the point unless someone can provided concrete evidence my car will be better after the fix.

Why should it be better?

[kevberlin]

This is all very interesting stuff. My MOT is booked in tomorrow first thing with a Skoda dealer and I have received the emissions fix letter. I am not going to mention it to them and if they fix it without my permission I will consider taking action against them. Car is remapped and a friend basically advised it is not a legal requirement to have it fixed. Why should I travel all the way to Mansfield at my own expense to have it re-remapped again?

 

I seriously don't see the point unless someone can provided concrete evidence my car will be better after the fix.

Why do you simply tell them NOT to carry out any defeat device rectification?

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

This is all very interesting stuff. My MOT is booked in tomorrow first thing with a Skoda dealer and I have received the emissions fix letter. I am not going to mention it to them and if they fix it without my permission I will consider taking action against them. Car is remapped and a friend basically advised it is not a legal requirement to have it fixed. Why should I travel all the way to Mansfield at my own expense to have it re-remapped again?

I seriously don't see the point unless someone can provided concrete evidence my car will be better after the fix.

A polite and simple "please don't carry out the update on my car" will suffice. Theres absolutely no need for the belligerence when they're just doing their jobs and what skoda have instructed them to do.

[Ootohere]

Surely Skoda UK or Volkswagen UK have not instructed Skoda Dealerships to carry out 'The Fix' without permission of the Owner / Keeper.

 

The person putting in a vehicle for a Service Can expect a Software Update / Enhancement when a Main Dealer Service is done if available, 

but that is different from 'The Fix'.

?

Or is it, actually customers should be informed that a Software Update may be done.

Some are not even told one has been done on collecting a vehicle.

Edited 23 December, 2016 by Offski

[martinpix]

Can I ask what MPG you get after the remap.

I'd love to get mine done but fuel economy is as important to me as power.

I have the same engine a CR 170 VRS .

 

thanks in advance.

[JohnSimmons]

Guys, first off thanks for the charts.  I read those charts and I can see some issues that you may, or may not, notice depending how you drive. In the re-map as it cuts torque below 2,500, so the changes will be all around the lower rpm region I would guess this is because the emissions test is probably biased towards those regions as after all in my car I think 2,500 is close to 90 on the motorway. So those who run lower gears or run heavier cars, like the 4WD Tiguan would be more likely to spot the issue.

 

To get lower Nox you need to lower combustion temperature (less efficient combustion and possibly more particulates) by probably run more exhaust gas re-circulation and I wonder if they have altered the pilot injection timing relative to main injection. Puling the pilot forward probably could cause the noise change some have heard in these engines. If they have a fair bit of carbon build up this could be more obvious and it is possible it is more sensitive to  engine to engine variation in compression. Plus if they are doing that then regen of the particulate trap filter will occur more often having a negative impact on economy. 

 

I think  I will leave alone and I do not think VW can say it makes no difference to engine performance as you can clearly see it has lower torque up to 2,500. I think I will write to VW and ask them to send me the full engine torque and power over RPM data like the above when tested before and after. I  do a lot of driving on A roads and Motorway so a lot of those miles are in the 1,800 to 2,500 rpm range. It looks like it will have a bit more for overtaking though. My concern is loss of economy as yes you can shift down to replace the lost power low down but doing about 25,000 miles per year  I would want to comprehend the economy and also life of Particulate Trap filter impact.

[Ootohere]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Best not have The Fix carried out,

just drive with what you have or get a Custom Remap to suit your needs.

[KenONeill]

Guys, first off thanks for the charts.  I read those charts and I can see some issues that you may, or may not, notice depending how you drive. In the re-map as it cuts torque below 2,500, so the changes will be all around the lower rpm region I would guess this is because the emissions test is probably biased towards those regions as after all in my car I think 2,500 is close to 90 on the motorway. So those who run lower gears or run heavier cars, like the 4WD Tiguan would be more likely to spot the issue.

 

To get lower Nox you need to lower combustion temperature (less efficient combustion and possibly more particulates) by probably run more exhaust gas re-circulation and I wonder if they have altered the pilot injection timing relative to main injection. Puling the pilot forward probably could cause the noise change some have heard in these engines. If they have a fair bit of carbon build up this could be more obvious and it is possible it is more sensitive to  engine to engine variation in compression. Plus if they are doing that then regen of the particulate trap filter will occur more often having a negative impact on economy. 

 

I think  I will leave alone and I do not think VW can say it makes no difference to engine performance as you can clearly see it has lower torque up to 2,500. I think I will write to VW and ask them to send me the full engine torque and power over RPM data like the above when tested before and after. I  do a lot of driving on A roads and Motorway so a lot of those miles are in the 1,800 to 2,500 rpm range. It looks like it will have a bit more for overtaking though. My concern is loss of economy as yes you can shift down to replace the lost power low down but doing about 25,000 miles per year  I would want to comprehend the economy and also life of Particulate Trap filter impact.

That's all well argued and logical. You might also like to ask for a specific fuel consumption chart for the engine.

[Quiksilver_TR]

I have been thinking about how the car drove before and after the fix was carried out, Before seeing the comments above along side re-looking at the graph......there was a diffference in how it drove after the fix....which when i first saw the power figures I was convinced was just the placebo effect, but now with a second look and the comments above I'm now not sure it was just a placebo effect.

After the fix (same roads, same driving style etc) the car felt more sluggish to pull away and throttle response at the town driving rev range (800-2500) with short gear changes.....which would marry up with the lowered torque and power output in that range after the fix.

It also didn't seem to pull "as hard" which was really obvious after the remap.

With the town driving I've done since the remap the mpg is improved on the same journeys, I'm yet to do my work journey or any distance where I'd compare like for like.

Edited 24 December, 2016 by Quiksilver_TR

[JohnSimmons]

Yes  I think I will ask for the Specific Fuel consumption figures and avoid the remap for the moment.

[Ootohere]

http://skoda.co.uk/pages/fuel-consumption-statement.aspx

Where are the specific Fuel Consumption Figures in 2016/17 for a 'used car' going to be coming from for your particular vehicle ?,

will it be from Re-done EU Testing in a Testing Facility which is temperature controlled and tests have nothing to do with real world MPG's.

Maybe they managed to get them to come out the same when no Defeat Device was installed.

You know what you get now,

that is unlikely to improve by having The Fix, unless your car could benefit from servicing and the Latest VW Software.

That does not need to be the Fix though, but what other Software will Main Dealers have that are not 'The Fix / Remap / revised engine management.'

Edited 25 December, 2016 by Offski

[vr6 south]

Can I ask what MPG you get after the remap.

I'd love to get mine done but fuel economy is as important to me as power.

I have the same engine a CR 170 VRS .

 

thanks in advance.

I see a regular increase of between 3-5 mpg after having my CR remapped. 60 MPG is regularly achievable on my commute to work.

[Ecomatt]

I have been thinking about how the car drove before and after the fix was carried out, Before seeing the comments above along side re-looking at the graph......there was a diffference in how it drove after the fix....which when i first saw the power figures I was convinced was just the placebo effect, but now with a second look and the comments above I'm now not sure it was just a placebo effect.

After the fix (same roads, same driving style etc) the car felt more sluggish to pull away and throttle response at the town driving rev range (800-2500) with short gear changes.....which would marry up with the lowered torque and power output in that range after the fix.

It also didn't seem to pull "as hard" which was really obvious after the remap.

With the town driving I've done since the remap the mpg is improved on the same journeys, I'm yet to do my work journey or any distance where I'd compare like for like.

Dont forget that it takes about 100 miles or so for the map to adapt properly. There is only about 20nm difference torque from the pre and post fix. That amount is so small you wouldnt notice the difference on road. I think at times we convince ourselves that it is different when it actually isnt.

[Ootohere]

?

What reason is there for there being about 100 miles for a Remap / change in engine management to take affect?  

Do you have some technical expertise in these things?

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

The OBD cycle does indeed take around 125 miles for everything to parameterize and adapt fully. Compensation for the likes of wear or soiling need to take place in order for the ECU to make the engine function at its most efficient under the achievable conditions.

This can be the reason that vehicles feel/drive differently after Control unit software adjustments or prolonged periods of zero voltage power downs (where the battery has been removed).

Mechatronic units can feel terrible and even require a basic settings procedure after battery disconnection.

One common fault that's revealed after an ecu reset then a period of use is the likes of long term fuel trim faults that require a full obd cycle before reoccurring.

[Ootohere]

Are the Dealers / Agents doing the work, or the VW Group telling the Owners of Vehicles this when they take a vehicle in to have The Fix? 

 

It seems something that Owners / Drivers should be made aware of if the Technicians and Service Desk staff taking in and handing back keys are aware of this.

* Obviously for Safety,

The first a driver should possibly become aware should not be as they join traffic having exited a Main Dealership, 

or Home or Workplace if The Fix is done by a Mobile Unit doing The.Fix.*

 

?

Are all vehicles having The Recall Actions being Road Tested by the technician doing the work after they have done the work and before a driver gets the vehicle back?

Edited 27 December, 2016 by Offski

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

Whilst the letters that the owners are sent stipulate that there are no long term changes it would do no harm at all if front of house staff were to advise that the characteristics of the vehicle may be altered in the short term and return to normal thereafter.

[Ootohere]

I would say that it is the Corporate Responsibility of the VW Group and those doing the work to make it clear, 

by letter, by website and especially as a Customer is asked to sign as they hand over or collect keys.

 

Something that maybe the Motoring Press & the DfT / DVSA can pick up on.

They should because that is the DVSA's job. 

Driver and others safety.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

I agree. I dare say that if the DVSA weren't a shell operation and had full man power like the dvla had then this whole ordeal would have been orchestrated a lot more promptly and efficiently with them testing vehicles for themselves to have unbiased opinion of the work carried out and results they create.

[Ootohere]

The 2nd Biggest Car Manufacturer in the world and the Official Dealerships in the world might think more about customers and not 

the Board & Seniors incomes, but then that is how it is.

 

Thanks for clarifying things because the Motoring Press are clearly not pressing VW UK for much information.

Someone will pick up on it though as there are Journalists reading this and i will send some the link to this thread.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

I can only answer and offer my honest opinion based on what I know for a fact and the experience I have had thus far with this campaign.

It wouldn't benefit me in the slightest to hide any negative experiences that may have come about as a result of this work, most of the time people will have visited this very forum to gain an understanding of exactly what they're in for long before they make there decision as to whether the do or don't have this task performed. Then any feedback would no doubt - find its way on here.

[Breezy_Pete]

Speaking for myself, and I hope others, your input is massively appreciated James.