Hi All.

 

I own a 61 plate 2.0 petrol vRS, which I've had since new. It's only done 31,000 miles. In the time I've owned it, in the first year it did around 12,000 miles. Up until April this year it did a few long journeys, but wasn't used a huge amount. Since April my wife has been using it with our 7 month old son. So lots of short journeys. It's always been serviced by the local Skoda dealer, every year.

 

Two months ago it complained that the oil level was low. Something it has never complained about before. It needed a litre of oil to get back to the max level. I initially put this down to the fact the usage profile of the car had drastically changed and instead of a few long journeys, it was now doing a lot of short journeys, every day. It was due an MOT a few days later, so I called Skoda ahead of my wife taking it in, to tell them what had happened. They said they would take a look. It passed the MOT without any issue, and my wife said the dealer didn't comment on there being any problem.

 

Tonight when I was topping up the washer fluid, I noticed what seemed to be oil on the left side of the engine. I immediately noticed it on the circular shiny metal part (not the most technical term) just behind the dipstick, and it was down the side of the engine beneath this. I also could see, what looked like oil residue on the undertray. All of this was on the left side of the engine, as you stood in front of the car (so, drivers side). I apologise now for the terrible quality of pictures. I've put arrows where the oil was noticeable on the undertray.

 

I wondered if anyone would be able to comment on what this could be, should I be concerned, and a rough idea on the cost to fix. I'd like to have some idea if this is an issue before I call Skoda.

 

Many Thanks in advance...

That silver plate is the outer side of the INA camshaft adjustment / N205 adjustment valve. It looks like a seal is leaking but I doubt it is leaking 1 litre of oil. You may be aware that the EA888 series engines have a very poor oil control ring design that is prone to blockage and failure. 

 

I have a 11 plate bought used with 32k miles. I'm now at 45k miles mixed driving. Still no measurable oil use luckily even though there is oil residue under the intake pipe near attachment to the turbo, I'm still trying to track that.

 

What oil change schedule do you use, what oil do you use or rather does the dealer use? 

 

Edit: Here is a photo of mine a few months ago so similar mileage...

 

Edit: Ps I really don't want to be the bearer of bad Christmas news, I actually consider this question as preventative for some far worse news,  but have you considered changing your timing chain tensioner?

 

 

Edited 17 December, 20178 yr by TheClient

Thanks for the reply. I wasn't actually aware of an issue there was a design issue with the oil control ring. Because the car has been so reliable I've not used this forum much to ask questions. My previous car was a Saab 9-3. I used that forum a lot, as that car seemed to have an issue every other week!

 

Looking through the service history, the last couple of years the dealer has used "Quantum Oil". Before that it was Castrol Edge, or "VW 502 00". It was the Castrol Edge 5W-40 I used to top up the oil in October. It is serviced every 12 months in January. We never do the mileage to have it serviced sooner.

 

I used to be much better at visually inspecting the engine bay. I'm 99% sure that oil wasn't there in January of this year. Since our son arrived in April, I've just not found the time to do stuff like this regularly. I don't consider any advice and help on avoiding potential problems to be bad Christmas news. It would be bad if I ignored the issue and then had a failure or bigger problem/bill through being ignorant.

 

Ten years about I brought a Mk1 MX-5, a workshop manual and whole load of tools, and set about learning how do things on the car myself, and pretty much did everything on it myself. However, with the Octavia I've always been much more cautious about touching it. And again, since having our son - time for this type of thing has just evaporated. The MX-5 has been SORN'd and not used since September '16. I'm not sure when that car will see the light of day again! I want to sell it, but my wife wants to keep it.

 

Is it a big job/expensive job to change the seal for the N205 adjustment valve? I've not considered changing the  timing chain tensioner... should I? Is it a big/expensive job to get the dealer to do this?

I don't think it would be a big job for the N205 seals. You need etka access or a dealer part cataologue or similar to get an exploded diagram to find out what seal is used and if it is replaceable separately. Or if the mechanism itself is leaking oil.  Access is good. Unless the oil is coming from somewhere else. But that outer plate of the camshaft adjuster looks very oiled up...

 

That oil change frequency and oils used sounds ok. It is more the variable long life regieme that is not friendly to this engine series. 12 month max say 8k miles is much better. You could consider running a 5W40 oil but we really need to nail the cause oil use issue first.

 

Yes, if you review some of the engine failure thread sticky at the start of this forum, you really ought to consider changing out the tensioner and main timing chain.  Anything older than the current revision is unreliable. Likely cost is £600+ from an independent probably £1000 from a dealer if they price it up properly but most just shrug their shoulders and say what are you on about?.....

 

Edit: Bear in mind a new engine is likely £5,500 plus plus.

 

You would probably investigate that adjustment valve leak at same time as that cover and the lower cover have to come off to do the timing chain.

 

I have 2 young children so know what it is like to be distracted with other things....

Edited 17 December, 20178 yr by TheClient

Many thanks for this. I'll contact the Skoda dealer tomorrow to see their thoughts on the issue. I've always had good service from them, so will see what they say in the first instance.

7 hours ago, JamesK said:

Many thanks for this. I'll contact the Skoda dealer tomorrow to see their thoughts on the issue. I've always had good service from them, so will see what they say in the first instance.

 

Looking at some other forums it seems leaking oil there is not uncommon.

 

The plate you see is actually the magnet assembly of the camshaft adjustment mechanism. The valve is inside on the camshaft.

 

There is an o ring. If i was diy ing it i'd replace that and see if it fixes it. 

 

A dealer may want to do more. It seems there is a revised plastic part which also requires a new connector.

 

As said, i really think it unlikely to be the cause of your missing 1 litre.

 

Definitely ask about main timing chain and tensioner. If they say they do not know about the problems go somewhere else or to a specialist independent. As you can see from the engine failure thread it is a fairly big problem that has caught quite a significant few.

 

http://www.vwgolf.net.au/showthread.php?27458-Leak-LHS-Camshaft-Magnet-thingy

Edited 18 December, 20178 yr by TheClient

That O-ring from cam bridge/bracket was N91000101, replaced by WHT007212 and the latest is WHT007212B. Should be a DIY .

 

Just in case, the seal under N205 is 06H103483D, could be a bit more tricky to exchange.

 

With other I agree with The Client, if produced before March 2012, the tensioner is an issue

https://shopdap.com/blog/vw-audi-20t-tsi-common-problems.html

 

Edited 19 December, 20178 yr by rayx

Many thanks for the info. I contacted the dealer yesterday. Regrettably the service manager who I previously dealt with has now left the business. I always got on well with him, and found him to be very honest and open. As a major service is due on 10th January I've booked it in to get that done early along with the oil leak that's visible to be investigated.

 

What has frustrated me with them is they aren't giving me confirmation that they definitely checked for an oil leak in October when I specifically told them on 2 occasions before it came in for an MOT. To me, it's clear they didn't as the oil has been there a while.

 

When I started asking about the timing chain tensioner things got even more vague. They are insistent on seeing the vehicle to check the timing chain. I explained that from what I'd read an inspection of the timing chain wouldn't reveal anything. The problem was the tensioner, and there were no early warning signs if it was about to fail. As I took delivery of the car in October 2011, I know the part should be replaced.

 

I know for a fact this dealer knows about the issue, as they are mentioned in the sticky engine failure thread as having been one of the dealers that has replaced/repaired an engine as a result of this issue.

 

It's somewhat frustrating timing right before Christmas, as I was thinking of changing the car in the next 6 months....

44 minutes ago, JamesK said:

When I started asking about the timing chain tensioner things got even more vague. They are insistent on seeing the vehicle to check the timing chain. I explained that from what I'd read an inspection of the timing chain wouldn't reveal anything. The problem was the tensioner, and there were no early warning signs if it was about to fail. As I took delivery of the car in October 2011, I know the part should be replaced.

 

I know for a fact this dealer knows about the issue, as they are mentioned in the sticky engine failure thread as having been one of the dealers that has replaced/repaired an engine as a result of this issue.

 

It's somewhat frustrating timing right before Christmas, as I was thinking of changing the car in the next 6 months....

 

Told you I didn't want to be the bearer of a negative Christmas gift!. You can risk it for 6 months but the way my luck rides, I would not.

 

There is not much they can inspect. They can look through the inspection hole with a mirror and confirm it is an old revision, We know that, the manufacture date of your engine is on the timing chain cover in Sep 2011 and you have owned from new. 

 

They can count the teeth extended on the tensioner to gauge timing chain stretch but the whole mechanism can still fail due to design deficiencies.

 

You can measure some timing measuring blocks which give a bit of a pointer on timing chain stretch too but ultimately, I agree with your opinion, they won't be able to add much but let them look and see what they suggest if you have a long standing relationship. 

 

Were they the selling dealer? Trouble is your 6 years SOGA is now up as well so you are carrying all the risk unless a goodwill measure came your way if the worst happened and there doesn't seem to be a lot of that underneath the Skoda Christmas tree of late.

 

If you were to pay for a repair, think of it this way, it gives you another 6 months of less worried driving, hopefully mitigates against total engine failure bill and it may get you a few hundred extra in the event of a private sale or at least with a clear conscience.  But as with all forum posts, these are just my opinions and how I think, depends how you weight it all up...

 

I paid for the tensioner and chain  job to be done when I bought my car used.

 

 

 

Edited 19 December, 20178 yr by TheClient

The supplying dealer was Allams in Epsom. At the time I think they were one of the sponsors of this forum. All work since has been done by Progress in Letchworth, and in fairness they have been excellent in all my dealings with them. So I'm hopeful this will continue.

 

Should I choose to get the tensioner done independently, can anyone recommend someone good in the Hatfield, Herts area?

Out of interest, since you put that litre in, how much mileage have you done and how much more have you added, if any?

 

 

 

I got my 2010 L&K from Allams in 2012 and its now drinking oil at an alarming rate, though only a 1.8 and at 88,000 miles.

On 12/20/2017 at 12:19, DBT85 said:

Out of interest, since you put that litre in, how much mileage have you done and how much more have you added, if any?

 

 

 

I got my 2010 L&K from Allams in 2012 and its now drinking oil at an alarming rate, though only a 1.8 and at 88,000 miles.

 

Since the oil was put in I've done around 2,200 miles. 600 of which was a holiday down to Devon. The level has gone down slightly, but it's not required topping up.

The quote came back today for the work required. They didn't really comment either way on whether I should get the timing chain and tensioner replaced.

The quote for having the timing chain cover seal and variator, timing chain, and timing chain tensioner changed was £797. If I just wanted the cover seal and variator changed then that would be £197. This makes it £600 to have the timing chain and tensioner changed. While expensive, it sounds like a good price for a main dealer.

 

This on top of it requiring new front discs and pads @ £295, and a pair of front tyres @ £143 each, along with the main service @ £279 it's a big bill!

On 23/12/2017 at 13:16, JamesK said:

The quote came back today for the work required. They didn't really comment either way on whether I should get the timing chain and tensioner replaced.

The quote for having the timing chain cover seal and variator, timing chain, and timing chain tensioner changed was £797. If I just wanted the cover seal and variator changed then that would be £197. This makes it £600 to have the timing chain and tensioner changed. While expensive, it sounds like a good price for a main dealer.

 

This on top of it requiring new front discs and pads @ £295, and a pair of front tyres @ £143 each, along with the main service @ £279 it's a big bill!

 

The quote for the timing chain seams remarkably good from a Skoda main dealer. You should check they are also replacing plastic guides and the lower timing cover in that quote.

 

The variable timing seal seam work seams expensive, but together with the timing chain work seams a reasonable bill overall.

 

Discs and pads are expensive at main dealer. You may want to consider other options..

 

On 18/12/2017 at 03:53, TheClient said:

That silver plate is the outer side of the INA camshaft adjustment / N205 adjustment valve. It looks like a seal is leaking but I doubt it is leaking 1 litre of oil. You may be aware that the EA888 series engines have a very poor oil control ring design that is prone to blockage and failure. 

 

I have a 11 plate bought used with 32k miles. I'm now at 45k miles mixed driving. Still no measurable oil use luckily even though there is oil residue under the intake pipe near attachment to the turbo, I'm still trying to track that.

 

What oil change schedule do you use, what oil do you use or rather does the dealer use? 

 

Edit: Here is a photo of mine a few months ago so similar mileage...

 

Edit: Ps I really don't want to be the bearer of bad Christmas news, I actually consider this question as preventative for some far worse news,  but have you considered changing your timing chain tensioner?

 

 

Hi the client, I am having similar issues with my Octavia 2012 RS CCZA engine using oil. You mentioned the control ringdesign that is prone to blockage and failure, where would I find this?

@Brissy

Check the dates on a thread before posting.

 

The oil control rings are on the pistons.

10 hours ago, Brissy said:

Hi the client, I am having similar issues with my Octavia 2012 RS CCZA engine using oil. You mentioned the control ringdesign that is prone to blockage and failure, where would I find this?

Yeah I'm still here but it is an old thread!  There are some links to outside sources on the ring design on the ea888 gen 2 in the engine failures thread. Possibly also some other thread particularly on 1.8tsi excessive oil use. Or try googling ea888 gen 2 piston ring design failure etc. Possibly with 1.8tsi or 2.0tsi should find you some info.  The scraper ring clogs with carbon and debris, that is the beginning of all the problems!!