yeti Leaking Panoramic Roof - The Cause and the Cure

[Weti]

@Grantolatrim the ends of the inner tube so they do not interfere with the running channels of the roof. 
 

Though it’s not shown in full in the second image I posted, if you look carefully, you can see a taper to the inner tube as it runs towards the corner you highlighted as Mech.

Also try to ensure the tube fits fully under the seal and over the seam of the metalwork. The adhesive appears compromised at the front of my roof so water can pass both sides of the seal. If it passes on the front side (closest to the windscreen, see image below) it could miss the inner tube if it isn’t inserted deep enough, and still end up running out of the two rectangular slots (you still have your headlining in so won’t be able to see these). 
 

 

Whilst I’m discussing this, I may as well give a further update for my car. 
 

It has been about two weeks since I made the inner tube repair and it has rained quite substantially in that time. I have used the car daily with frequent rain and until this evening, I have not seen any further ingress. Then whilst driving it in a downpour, a drop or two landed on me. I could see where it came in and suspect it is from another opening in the side channels. I’m having trouble uploading the photograph but will try on another post. 
 

The water trail was away from the overlap between the aluminium and plastic joint so I still believe it is not the culprit.

 

I have removed the carpet and soundproofing which were largely dry. The heavy insulation on the toe board (pedal area) is still sodden though and will be slow to dry without encouragement. I have blocked up all the air blower outlets into the front and rear footwells apart from those directly above the area the water has collected in the OS footwell. I also lift the insulation when not in the car to promote circulation of air. 
 

 

[Weti]

8 hours ago, Grantola said:

While I was in there poking the inner tube in with a cake knife (the extant seal does seal nicely to it - nice thinking!), I spotted something. Has anyone considered the possibility of the wind deflector forming a structure to channel water from the area where it should drip into the tray to the inner part of the assembly? I saw that the inner plastic at the corner of the assembly was wet (highlighted in the image). The only way I could see water getting there was via the wind deflector. .

 

@Grantola I’m glad you remarked on this. This is the area I also think water is still coming in to mine. I can’t fathom how though as the water level would either: 1) need to be filled in the channels so high that it can overspill the break in the plastic. When I opened the sunroof last night during a pause in the rain, I found the whole area essentially empty. This suggests it is not filling up and is draining well. 

2) water is somehow tracking sideways across the glass until it hits the inner main seal and then down the break in the plastic. I guess since I’ve seen water breach the main outer seal, this is how it’s still getting it. I just cannot understand why it designed this way unless it is to let the structure breathe/aerate etc. Either way, if your car is soaking in these conditions, the path could do with being eliminated, at least partially. 
Even in extremely heavy rain yesterday, and whilst driving the car, only minor levels of ingress were observed. The amount of water removed from the car, like yours @Grantolasuggest either a slow accumulative effect that we only observe when the footwell squelches or it’s pouring in somewhere. 
I’m beginning to favour the former though as I’ve driven the car in some pretty horrid conditions since I stripped the interior and water has not poured in. I guess a dribble here and a drop there, with nowhere to go except sit on the floor pan, eventually adds up to litres. 

[Weti]

Weirdly, the website is randomly allowing and disallowing photo uploads. These are the areas I’m referring to as potential ingress points and corroborates what you are suggesting @Grantola

there’s no way the channels are filling that high that it’s over spilling so guess water is hitting the main inner seal shown to the right of the image where the glass sits and then runs down the path you are suggesting. Though it ’s a big gap at the top, I suspect it narrows somewhat as I previously mentioned, the ingress was slow. 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Freedom membership sorts out photo posting issues.

[Grantola]

@Weti thanks for the follow up and further thoughts.

 

It's a hypothesis only at this stage, but I think the wind deflector could somehow be channeling the water across the drainage channels where it's supposed to go and dropping it onto the structure we've both highlighted as open to the interior. The leak that I have certainly appears to have wetted the interior right under that structure (can't conclude anything concrete from that though, it could easily be tracking from any of the holes you've identified as suspect). Evidence to muse upon.

 

The surprise I got this morning was that after last night's heavy rain, I came out to a bone dry interior for the first time in months. I applied the paper towel in the dash and all over the floor as suggested by another creative poster. Dry, not one drop. Far too soon to say that we have a potential resolution, but the data point is that I made two changes last night and the outcome is marked.

 

The two changes I made which seem to be the difference between a catastrophic leak and a dry interior were:

1. I fitted the inner tube rubber seal as you suggested at the front (again, nice thinking)

2. I removed the wind deflector/fly screen 

 

That's it. I really should have made the changes independently to pinpoint the effect of each, but I can offer that applying both together has resulted in no leak.

 

It could be that we're seeing multiple leaks with different quantities of water. It could be that the wind deflector is a red herring.

 

I'll report back with further updates. My interior is wet, so I'm going to leave this in place until I'm dry. Meantime, if anyone else fancies testing the hypothesis of the wind deflector being a contributor to the woes, that would be fab.

 

Cheers soggy Yeti owners! 🍻

Grant

[Weti]

@GrantolaThat is good news. I’m glad to hear your car is dry. Is this an unusual result under normal circumstances? If so, a great sign and evidence to suggest water could be entering from multiple paths. To confirm, you haven’t removed your headlining?
 

My wind deflector has been out for the entire time I’ve had the inner tube repair and is still out. As I saw ingress last night, the wind deflector is not the sole reason it is finding its way through. 
 

I ask if you have removed the headlining as it’s much easier to see what’s going on by being able to check from above and below. 
This morning, I saw a drop on the passenger seat. This is the first indication of water coming in from the NS too. By being able to look upwards, I can confirm it’s the same location as we’ve discussed. I also lay tissue paper across the driver’s seat and steering wheel which were dry (surprising given it hammered it down) but there was a drop hanging ready to fall. 
 

If you shine a light upwards you can see the light in the areas highlighted below. Given light can get through (and it’s not a direct path) I now have no doubt this is how the water is entering and landing on the seats (again, with the headlining there, it drops onto the lining and tracks across to the A-B pillars). The gap circled nearest the windscreen is quite large and may also need something physical present to block that route rather than sealant alone. Maybe more rubber, combined with sealant?

 

I’m kinda miffed I haven’t fully prevented it but intrigued by the challenge it presents at the same time. Question is, can I fix it before Christmas as my girlfriend is threatening to throw out my headlining and interior trim so she can entertain 🤣

[Weti]

I appear to have inadvertently deleted some of my text. I also wrote: 

 

I checked the underside of the opening pane of the roof and the surrounding pane structure. These were wet. This supports the theory that water on the underside can track laterally until it seeps through the gaps mentioned. 
I’m curious about what @Grantola you propose about the wind deflector exacerbating the issue. With the wind deflector there, it will take up more space and offer more surface for water to sit against. Without it, water would attain the critical mass it needs to break free of a surface and flow towards the drains. Since the deflector sits very close to the gaps, I think your idea has gravity. 

[Grantola]

@Weti, thanks for confirming and for the further thoughts. I think I may have found another smoking gun this evening.

 

Firstly, scrub what I said earlier. Car sat outside in a different location during the day today and it's soaking as bad as before once again. The only difference between the two locations is a slight camber OS to NS in the location where the ingress happened. Which got me thinking - if it's really the wind deflector transferring to the inboard location we've been talking about, it should leak LESS as the water would have to run uphill.

 

Again, the potential leak area we've been discussing was clearly wet and tracking rearwards along the inner air seal, it was obvious that the water was tracking down to the location from somewhere to the rear. Tracking back, I realised that the water tracked right back to the centre of the sunroof - the underside of the inner air seal was wet right the way along.

 

On inspection, there's a centre sealing joint between the front and rear glass panels of the sunroof with a drainage channel located under the seal. The channel then runs transversely roughly between the B-pillars and terminates in two holes which drain the water which drops between the two glass panels down into the aluminium end channels, obviously leading the water to the front and rear drainage hoses.

 

The NS Torx screw which retains the rear glass panel was obviously wet (the OS screw was dry) and I realised that the NS drain hole was blocked, the water from this channel had obviously been backing up and running over the screw. I stuck a bottle brush into the hole whereby residue plopped out into the drain channel. On further inspection, the hole was mostly occluded at the bottom from excess rubber from the manufacturing process and hence I guess much more liable to blocking. I inspected the OS and the hole was completely clear. Interesting.

 

I used a syringe to drop water onto the screw with the car on the level and I watched the water run from there, along the channel (the outside of the inner air seal) and guess where it went? Straight down the gap that you've been suggesting @Weti. That's potentially our ingress route. Other side was dry. Correlation?

 

I rammed the bottle brush into the hole to try to dislodge the excess rubber in the drain hole, only succeeded to open it up, but the rubber remains.

 

Soggy Yeti owners, I invite you to check your centre drainage holes for blockages! 

 

I'll post some images up in the next post.

 

Cheers,

Grant

[Grantola]

[NickWB]

Hi, as a new member with a puddle in my yeti the discussions are a great help. But having trawled the chats I can't find a copy of the original pdf - the original and subsequent copies all say "no longer available". The first information I need is how to diagnose the issue. Please can someone repost a copy?

Many thanks

Nick

[Grantola]

Hey @NickWB! Welcome to the home of wet Yetis!

 

Take a look here for the PDF by the very helpful OP: https://www.briskoda.net/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=112564

I’m still dry after applying the rubber seal above, clearing the drain holes and deleting the wind deflector. No doubt it will be raining inside again tomorrow, but for now I seem to be dry. Let us know how you get on! @Weti’s suggestion above is well worth a try!

 

Cheers,

Grantola

[BeePM]

Hi all, I was hoping to not have to revisit this thread again for a while, but I’m sorry to say the sunroof saga continues for me.

 

Last week I noticed a smell in the car and traced it to a soggy (drenched) front passenger footwell. The optimistic part of me naively assumed it couldn’t be the sunroof again after the extensive sealing repairs already recently carried out and I expected it to be a blocked condense drain, or leaves in the drain tray for the front windscreen, door seal etc.

 

Nope! The car has been with the dealers for a week now and they have just informed me it is the main seal for the sunroof, the one between the base of the cassette and the car.

 

Deep Joy !

 

They say, and I quote,

 

“Although seals are generally excluded under the Warranty policy, as a dealership we are covering the cost of this extensive repair given the previous history.”

 

So now I find myself in a quandary as to how I feel about taking this forward. In the two and a half months I have owned the car I am surprised at how much I have already grown to love it, the driving experience, the comfort, the spec, the quirky styling etc.

 

However, as is born out by this ever-growing thread, it seems once a soggy Yeti owner, the comment “I’m dry for now” seems to be an accepted fate, for Panoramic roof owners at least.

 

The reason I have come back to this thread (apart from adding my experience so that potential future owners doing their research when weighing up their options on a future purchase are better informed) is to ask you for your advice on where I stand with my consumer rights if I decide my faith is completely lost in the vehicle and I wish to consider taking my initial investment and putting it into another vehicle, this time one without a sunroof.

 

If I did change vehicles, sadly It wouldn’t be another Yeti as they are a Hyundai main dealer offering a selection of different manufacturer second hand vehicles sourced from trade ins, which is how I came across mine (perhaps now I know why it was traded in).

 

Considering that I bought the car second week of September and my no quibble 30-day money back period has passed, do I have a leg to stand on if I decide to demand a replacement vehicle. Or am I obliged to have to allow the dealer the opportunity to repair the issues indefinitely ?

 

I will say that my faith isn’t lost in the dealer as they have been completely professional and helpful so far and I do really want to keep my Yeti, best car I have ever owned. Hopefully some of you may be able to reassure that after extensive repairs you have been watertight for a decent / sensible amount of time, but it does appear from this thread that this may not be the case.

 

Thanks all for reading this and I really do appreciate any advice, train of thought you may be able to give me before I respond to the dealers.

 

ATB / Bazza

Edited 1 December, 2023 by BeePM

[Prezafab]

I would be 'delighted' that the Dealer is owning the repair - you don't have the option to reject a used car now. I would then either sell it privately and have the paperwork showing a new sunroof cassette, or keep it until you can change it for a late SEL model without a panroof.

 

I've just bought a new to me Audi to replace our Volvo and I avoided the panaromic roof option like the plague, because of your and others experience on here. I looked into Audi forums for my model and people have had issues in warranty (under 3 years old) so I thought it was too much of a risk for a used car purchase.

[BeePM]

Thanks for your input Prezafab, appreciated.

 

As I only found out about this today, I may still be 'emotional' or 'kneejerk' about the situation. You may well be right and i should maintain a sense of perspective and  just be happy that they are covering it under warranty. I do love the car and at the risk of tempting fate, mechanically it is a dream.

 

I'm interested in when you say 'you don't have the option to reject a used car now' . I wasn't aware of this and wonder if this is actually an accepted point of consumer law. The links below seem to imply that one would still be protected. even after the 30 day no quibble.

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tips-advice/34744/rejecting-new-or-used-car-your-car-consumer-rights-explained

 

and especially below (item 9.19 seems to cover my situation)

 

https://www.businesscompanion.info/focus/car-traders-and-consumer-law/part-b-your-obligations-under-consumer-rights-act-2015-cra

 

I am deliberately not going to respond to the dealer just yet until I have regained perspective and also covered all my bases, including knowing if I have consumer protection, or not, which I still suspect I do but hope a / some members here have knowledge in this field and can confirm either way.

 

Thanks again 👍

 

ATB / Bazza

[Prezafab]

My understanding (which could be wrong!) Is that you have to give them one chance to fix and if it's not resolved you can advise the Dealer that you want to reject. The trouble is, that it they (for examp le) replace the roof cassette, they can legitimately say that that is the official fix, provided that they provide evidence (Skoda parts invoice?). So, if it it starts leaking again, when would that be and you wouldn't have any recourse by that time. Also, if you reject, and they accept, they can retain a legitimate amount of money from the original sale to cover their costs of sale, and the fact that the value of the Yeti has probably dropped a bit over the last 3 months.

 

If I was in the same situation and the Dealer seems to be helpful and concerned, I would be saying that you would like to have confidence to keep the car, and as you don't want to risk leaks appearing over the near future, the only sensible solution would be for them to replace the whole roof cassette, as that is what Skoda dealers recommend.

 

If they agree to that and evidence it to add to your service history, I would thank them and see how the fix goes as it might be perfect for the next 3 years. At the first sign of a leak you can then trade it in with no loss to yourself, and have otherwise had a great car.

 

We're on our 6th Yeti in the family and even though our black edition has nearly done 100k, we just had all new front Bilstein suspension etc etc because they are worth keeping.

 

Let us know what happens.

 

Ps you could always suggest to the dealer that you pay for a second opinion at Skoda dealer, and if they agree it needs a new cassette, your supplying dealer stands by it ?

[Paul52]

I sympathise with owners of Yeti's where the roof leaks. I've been lucky with mine (so far). I bought mine new and it was an expensive option and after seeing the problems on this forum I'd be very wary of having a sunroof in my next car. And to be honest, I don't really use it a lot anyway - it gets a bit more use than the 6 CD player but not a lot.

 

As regards your dilemma, I know you can research your legal rights on google and your dealer seems to be acting responsibly in trying to address your concerns but this is such a big decision you've got to take I would seriously consider getting some proper, paid for, legal advice. This might even include a letter from the solicitor setting out what you require to give you confidence going forward and would give you something to fall back on if things didn't go well. 

 

Clearly you have to get the fix done but after that, with proper assurances the problem is permanently fixed, I'd be tempted to keep the car. You say other than this you love the car so it's replacement is likely to be a bit of a disappointment (albeit a dry one!) and if you've had the repair done and include the documentation including any warranty this could be a red flag to a potential buyer and hit the resale value. It's a shame these problems have taken the shine off your new car.

 

 

[Prezafab]

I've bought cars known for specific traits or issues *because* I've seen the genuine paperwork from the franchised dealer that the official repair has been carried out.

 

I wouldn't say it's a selling point, but it definitely gives peace of mind to the next the buyer knowing that they aren't likely to have to spend £'000. I bought a particular used Mercedes SLK 350 because the plastic cam follower/guide had been replaced. The part was £300 but the Labour was £2500.

[vRSG60]

On 14/11/2023 at 22:16, Grantola said:

I've been following this thread for a while now and have tried many of the creative and appreciated fixes suggested by soggy-Yeti owners to date. To me, there's always been something fundamentally wrong that we've not identified as owners yet. My car has got progressively worse over time and the volume of water that's coming in to me implies a direct path, I suspect not (or in addition to) a capillary path. 

 

@Wetiwhen I read your post it made a lot of sense to me and hence I popped out this evening and fashioned the seals out of inner tube that you suggested, installed in mine. The design of the OEM seals really is crap as the whole thing depends on the drip pointing down the way otherwise the water is going to potentially run from the seal into that gap. The seals on mine have varible angles and I could see your hypothesis holding water (excuse the pun). Kudos for spotting it and providing this suggestion of a fix. I'll be delighted to test it.

 

I couldn't see how you'd got this concept to work with the sliding roof mechanism, so I simply ran the seal as far as I could around the front before it would start interfering with the roof mechanism. My leak is NSF.

 

While I was in there poking the inner tube in with a cake knife (the extant seal does seal nicely to it - nice thinking!), I spotted something. Has anyone considered the possibility of the wind deflector forming a structure to channel water from the area where it should drip into the tray to the inner part of the assembly? I saw that the inner plastic at the corner of the assembly was wet (highlighted in the image). The only way I could see water getting there was via the wind deflector. 

 

So I clipped out the wind deflector/fly screen (dead easy with flat blade screwdriver) and will try this in conjunction with the fix that @Weti has suggested.

 

It's been kept in the garage for the past couple of months, it is out in the Scottish rain tonight.

 

 

 

 

 

I've actually coated the area you mention with sealant, both side, in fact there's not much I haven't coated in sealant.  I'm still getting a leak form somewhere. I've a feeling condenstation on the inside of the glass can run down onto the headlining then leak into the cabin somewhow.

I also have a feeling that actually using the sunroof eventually breaks the seal between the front crossmember & side oieces due to flexing. I ran my car with no roof lining for 3 months & I could see the water ingress from the joint on the inside.

All my drains are clear but I haven't secured the drain joints.

I'm totally fed up with it all. It spoils a great car. Tiguans are affected the same, so it's a sunroof design fault.

[vRSG60]

On 15/11/2023 at 12:33, Grantola said:

 

 

It's a hypothesis only at this stage, but I think the wind deflector could somehow be channeling the water across the drainage channels where it's supposed to go and dropping it onto the structure we've both highlighted as open to the interior. The leak that I have certainly appears to have wetted the interior right under that structure (can't conclude anything concrete from that though, it could easily be tracking from any of the holes you've identified as suspect). Evidence to muse upon.

 

 

 

 

Something I've suspected for a while.

[Weti]

 

1 hour ago, vRSG60 said:

 

 

I've actually coated the area you mention with sealant, both side, in fact there's not much I haven't coated in sealant.  I'm still getting a leak form somewhere. I've a feeling condenstation on the inside of the glass can run down onto the headlining then leak into the cabin somewhow.

I also have a feeling that actually using the sunroof eventually breaks the seal between the front crossmember & side oieces due to flexing. I ran my car with no roof lining for 3 months & I could see the water ingress from the joint on the inside.

All my drains are clear but I haven't secured the drain joints.

I'm totally fed up with it all. It spoils a great car. Tiguans are affected the same, so it's a sunroof design fault.

Absolutely this is the case. When I removed my headlining, I could see the entire roof, front and rear, was covered in condensation. Once the floor was dried out, the condensation effect stopped. 
Have you removed your carpets? This is the best way to dry the foam in the peddle area of the footwell which retains water incredibly well. 

[Stubod]

5 hours ago, vRSG60 said:

 

.......................................

 

II'm totally fed up with it all. It spoils a great car. Tiguans are affected the same, so it's a sunroof design fault.

 

 

..but VAG will never admit it.....

Edited 4 December, 2023 by Stubod

[vRSG60]

23 hours ago, Weti said:

 

Absolutely this is the case. When I removed my headlining, I could see the entire roof, front and rear, was covered in condensation. Once the floor was dried out, the condensation effect stopped. 
Have you removed your carpets? This is the best way to dry the foam in the peddle area of the footwell which retains water incredibly well. 

I've not removed the carpets, it looks too much of a faff. I've had an electric blower heater in there for a few hours on numerous ocassions.

[Prezafab]

1 hour ago, vRSG60 said:

I've not removed the carpets, it looks too much of a faff. I've had an electric blower heater in there for a few hours on numerous ocassions.

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but if there is a professional, guaranteed no-leak way of doing this, can you immobilise and seal the sunroof 'shut' ?

 

There have been a number of cars with a fixed glass panel roof, where just the blind moves.

 

I'm sure this has been discussed, but if we'd chosen an L&K 3 years ago (we nearly did) over a Black Edition, that's what I would be doing ... With my other half's  permission, of course!

[vRSG60]

Carpets feel dry to me now but the car suffers badly now from condensation. Dried all the wondows & sunroof with paper towels yesterday. Condenstation again this morning and each evening when I finish work.

I had the Air Con was regassed in the summer & a new compressor fitted. but it's never been good at de-humidifiying. My previous vRS Octavia cleared the screen of any condenstaion in seconds.

Even using the heated screen takes minutes to clear condensation on the winsdcreen. It clears a frosted screen OK (not exactly quickly) but takes a while with condenstation.

The air con does get cold though. I know there's a dehumidifyer type part of the air con that can be changed.

 

🤬

Edited 14 December, 2023 by vRSG60

[Prezafab]

1 hour ago, vRSG60 said:

Carpets feel dry to me now but the car suffers badly now from condensation. Dried all the wondows & sunroof with paper towels yesterday. Condenstation again this morning and each evening when I finish work.

I had the Air Con was regassed in the summer & a new compressor fitted. but it's never been good at de-humidifiying. My previous vRS Octavia cleared the screen of any condenstaion in seconds.

Even using the heated screen takes minutes to clear condensation on the winsdcreen. It clears a frosted screen OK (not exactly quickly) but takes a while with condenstation.

The air con does get cold though. I know there's a dehumidifyer type part of the air con that can be changed.

 

🤬

Other than using a garage or a thick car cover, I don't know what you can do - unless as I asked, can it be 'welded shut' ?

 

We once had a brand new Volkswagen Eos with a folding metal roof. Within 1000 miles someone ran into the back of it. The damage was quite light, but it was enough to have knocked seals or drainage channels ever so slightly out of the line. The car was then plagued with really awful condensation for the year we had it - which we never had in our previous Eos.