23 minutes ago, digifish said:

Well yes and no.

 

The plastic liners are attached to the metal work, and so will transmit high frequency vibrations to the car. They are also far from reflecting 100% of the noise. If you used that analogy then a thin plastic sheet would be all that's needed to soundproof a room.

 

Understand that VAG have been on a weight-crusade to meet EU emissions targets. Every KG matters. For example, in the boot, I can see they have attached damping material at the anti-nodes (probably based on some computer simulation) which will be for specific (and most problematic) frequencies.  This will be a compromise between weight and noise. There will be a trade-off they are achieving.

 

I too have a spare tyre, and tapping around with a drumstick in the boot prior to damping (with tyre in place) there was a lot of ringing in the higher frequency range. Indeed, I am chasing course-chip high-speed road + tyre here (white noise). This stuff will transmit through sheet metal and ring throughout panels in a heartbeat. Damping my boot had a big impact on this NVH from the rear of the cabin (I was surprised to be honest). I also noticed a subtle but pleasingly noticeable reduction of engine noise from doing the Bonnet (that TSI with it's direct and port injection, makes a lot of injector noises, which you can see they have tried to tame with both the under-engine-cover damping and bonnet damping). 

 

When I damp the front wheel wells, I am planning to put a layer of butyl over the sheet metal including the liner-panel connection points to further reduce transmission. And also some on the back of the liner where I can.

 

While I have some sympathy for Mr Audio Experts POV, that you should not rely on your ability to improve OEM noise reduction, its clear to me that manufacturers have been under pressure to reduce weight and so compromising in this area in the middle-priced segment.

 

My old 2003 Passat was significantly better NVH than this 2018 Superb. From what I can see after crawling around both, the Passat had more and heavier damping on panels than does the Superb. Where they do use it on the Skoda, its some sort of light-weight (high-density foam) material that I can't see what it is supposed to do. On the Passat it was a heavier (almost buytl-like) stuff.

 

Anyhow, I have made quite significant improvements so far, and I am sure doing the wheel wells will be enough. This will have been about $300 AUD and 20 KG well spent IMO. For me it has been a fun project to get to know my Superb better, and satisfies a maker/handyman itch you get from watching too many YouTube videos of people making stuff or working on cars

 

That is, for me, its fun and satisfying.

That's good explanation. I wonder how Audi does it because I can hear difference on A4 outside as well. My friends TDI engine on 2013 A4 is quieter on the outside and almost silent inside cabin. VW vs Skoda isn't big difference these days though.

I had fun with this project, but I still didn't archive the result I truly wanted. However I do notice a lot of noise through windows. 

BTW, on a road-trip I had to drive over some freshly laid road, they spread that 5 mm gravel on it, with a little bit of stickiness from the tar it was on it. I remember clearly hearing the stones flick onto the front wheel liners, and quite loudly/clearly. So there is definitely gains to be had there.   

On 12/05/2019 at 09:03, nodigital said:

Having done all the doors on my L&K I would suggest that:

• Don't go nuts on adding excessively to the doors (See earlier posts for my pics).  You won't notice any difference between some or a lot, as its all subjective anyhow.   After doing three doors and not the drivers, at no point of driving did I think "The driver's door is noisier than the others", nor as a passenger did I notice noise from the driver's side.  The doors for me are now really heavy, too much so, making them slam more
• Add a couple of sheets on the outer skin to deaden for the audio, making the door sound like its made of stone would only benefit if you're maxing your audio.
• Don't add anything on the inner skin - VAG have already done sufficient work with the push in seals that isolate sound
• Adding foam on the full door card may reduce high frequencies but the door's construction is soft enough to deaded so I doubt it has much if any benefit

When you look at all the stuff about sound deadening in doors it usually with vehicles that have much lower quality construction,  no isolation on the inner door skin.    For me, the doors gave the least benefit, if any, and I wouldn't do it again on another Superb.  Deadening in the wheel wells and boot noticeably reduced the rear noise and now it's all about road rumble which I'll attempt to address with sheets under the front floor carpets, but even then, I'm not expecting much in terms of noticeable benefit - I think the stretched length of the MQB platform combined with 19" is a bad mix.

 

 

Very interesting re the doors.  I had expected that there would be gains to be made with regard to speaker fidelity was well as sound ingress and a nice door 'thud' (which is pretty good already).

 

Weighing it up against the complexity, breaking clips and potential rattles at the door grip internal clip it is a tough call.  

Food for thought for sure.

 

Having done the bonnet, wheel arches, inside boot and under rear seat all that is left that is inside boot sides and doors, both of which appear quite challenging. 

10 minutes ago, Steviedakota said:

 

Having done ... inside boot ... all that is left that is inside boot sides ... which appear quite challenging. 

 

As you did the outside of the wheel arches and exposed boot, then the hidden boot parts is not going to make any difference. AFAIK

 

 

5 minutes ago, digifish said:

 

As you did the outside of the wheel arches and exposed boot, then the hidden boot parts is not going to make any difference. AFAIK

 

Still have 20 sheets of silent coat and a box of 6mm closed cell, I have to use them somewhere!

23 minutes ago, Steviedakota said:

 

Still have 20 sheets of silent coat and a box of 6mm closed cell, I have to use them somewhere!

 

On your washing machine

 

I just did the drivers side wheel well and liner today. Test drive - feels calmer on the drivers side. Putting my head in the middle of the car wile driving, definitely nosier on the passenger side. 

 

Its more subtle than the boot tho (I think, but need to do the passenger side to really tell). 

 

It did reveal the next nosiest source seems to be over my shoulder coming from the B pillar area. 

 

 

...

 

I also damped 1/2 the front fender (bright green) as I notice they stuffed some noise reducing baffle (large shaped and closed foam block) where the fender meets the door, and the outside of the liner (blue) about 90% of the area. I will take pictures when I do the passenger side.

 

After tapping the metal of the wheel-well fire-wall, it seems quite stiff and damped. I put some patches there but the main thing was the outside of the wheel liner and the fender. FWIW there was Wax spray everywhere in places, precluding buytl sticking. So I ignored those.

Edited 17 May, 20197 yr by digifish

One thing I've noticed is that a road noise is reduced you start to pick up on other noises, mostly wind noise, which you didn't hear before. Next up is some DIY double glazing!

59 minutes ago, Steviedakota said:

One thing I've noticed is that a road noise is reduced you start to pick up on other noises, mostly wind noise, which you didn't hear before. Next up is some DIY double glazing!

THAT ONE I VERY VERY much want to know how to do  I hear a looooot of noise through windows. 

 

My goal is to not get DAZED from noise when I drive on coarse chip tarmac for more than 20 min. Getting there ...

 

Some noise is OK, it keeps you awake. But not so much noise you can't think.

 

The liner turned out to be easier than expected. I did have some mild concern when I saw all the pieces from the front spoiler area and the interleaving plastic sections (would I remember how it all went). However it sort of dictated how to put itself back together. Bit of working around and shuffling and it all lined up again. 

 

No screws (out of about 14) left over, so epic win. Looking forward to doing the other side now.

 

FWIW, here's how it went.

 

1. Get out trolley jack from box its been sitting in for 2 years. 

 

2. Position it under the car (i used the sill jacking point with a rubber chock designed to cup the point) and start pumping

 

3. Notice a puddle of oil and no movement

 

4. Spend the next 45 minutes repairing the jack and refilling with oil

 

5. Start again.

 

The actual work took me about 2 hours from start to finish. Taking my time and poking and tapping around. I started on the car then did the liner last easiest of course.

 

BTW once I had disassembled the liner, I found the factory jack points they hold the car with while making it. This picture is from the Superb III

 

 

 

 

 

The front one is under this plastic plug. Useful to know, Good place for Jack Stands.

 

 

Edited 17 May, 20197 yr by digifish

As promised here's some more detail on the passenger side ... 

 

 

BTW Tip for anyone removing and replacing the liner at trolley-jack height. A pair of upturned (standard plastic) buckets at either end of the liner, like the one in the lower edge of the thumbnail above, make holding the liner in rough-place much easier.

 

It sits at almost the right height and you can start replacing screws,

So bit the bullet and tackled a door. Chose the ns rear if it all went pear-shaped it will be the farthest away from me!

 

Started by removing the light switch, pops out easy enough starting at the back and working your way forward along the side. Disconnected the connector.

 

Rotated the tab at the bottom of the door 90° using a small spanner.

 

Remove the bolt under the armrest.

 

Then started with my trim removal tools at the bottom of the door working at the sides. These are tight but once you have a few the rest start to follow. One of the door clips did not pop out with the door panel so I had to prise it out ruining it in the process.

 

Then as previous posters advised lifted the entire door card upwards and the retaining clip behind the grab handle released.

 

Looking inside door card it became obvious that I was not going to attempt to remove the electrical connectors to the tweeter and door handle lighting and door cable. or just a bit too finicky. So with a lot of silent coat cut into strips with the adhesive backing removed, I supported the door with one hand and placed the silent code on the inside of the door card and on the door itself wherever possible with the other. Not removing the door card meant that I could not remove the large plastic cover which would allow access to the inside of the door skin.

 

Once I had applied all the silent coat I refitted the door card starting at the top, then banging in the grab handle clip and working my way around the sides.  Don't forget to feed the cable through for the light switch before re attaching the door card. 

 

Then the bolt and rotated the bottom clip 90°.

 

Reconnected the light switch and then tested that the windows were working before refitting the unit. The two tabs at the front slide under the door trim first then you tap down from the back

 

I have a feeling that this job will yield little if no results, and given the chance of damaging clips and things not going back properly I am not sure I will be attempting it on any of the other doors.

 

Only one picture I'm afraid as my hands were full holding the card and applying the silent coat!

 

Then spent another hour adding more silent code and closed cell to the boot floor.

 

 

Edited 18 May, 20197 yr by Steviedakota

On 18/05/2019 at 08:42, digifish said:

As promised here's some more detail on the passenger side ... 

 

 

Interesting, I didn't have those stock noise insulation glued on the wheel arches 😮 I wonder if adding noise insulation there helps? I feel my car is really noisy, I just drove with GTI recently (2006 model) and the car inside is much quieter (tyre noise I mean mostly) and I just don't get it how.... 

6 hours ago, JackySi said:

I didn't have those stock noise insulation glued on the wheel arches 😮

 

Not really glued, but pushed in place, the stickiness came from the wax I think. BTW don't overlook tyres, I had to replace some on an Opel Astra today so made an audio recording. I chose the tyre from the range marketed as low noise...and it made a huge difference, The recording doesn't really do it justice. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 20 May, 20197 yr by digifish

On 18/05/2019 at 22:53, Steviedakota said:

I have a feeling that this job will yield little if no results, and given the chance of damaging clips and things not going back properly I am not sure I will be attempting it on any of the other doors.

 

 

Yes similar conclusion from nodigital

 

BTW you can order replacement clips. So breaking them need not be a big problem.

 

1 hour ago, digifish said:

 

Yes similar conclusion from nodigital

 

BTW you can order replacement clips. So breaking them need not be a big problem.

 

 

Indeed, when you think of it exterior noise has to travel through the outer door skin, the inner door skin, then the door card.  You are far more likely to hear noise  through the glass than the door, so hard to see the point.

 

I know re the clips, I should have had some before starting.  The loss of one clip has not made any difference but if I was doing any more doors I would certainly have a few replacements on hand. 

44 minutes ago, Steviedakota said:

 

Indeed, when you think of it exterior noise has to travel through the outer door skin, the inner door skin, then the door card.  You are far more likely to hear noise  through the glass than the door, so hard to see the point.

 

I know re the clips, I should have had some before starting.  The loss of one clip has not made any difference but if I was doing any more doors I would certainly have a few replacements on hand. 

 

Yes. I have been looking for referred noise. For example the sills are quite 'ringy' and tubes, and feed into the B pillars. Which is why I matted the B pillar trim and stuffed some acoustic foam tiles up into the top of the B. I am also planning to stuff some into the sills which seem accessible from the lower B.

 

Basically looking for places where external noise can make its way into the cabin via conduction. I think I have reached the point where I need to replace the tyres tho to have any more significant benefits. I may ask my local friendly mechanic to put it on a hoist and see what's under the floor (hidden by plastic covers atm and my car on stands too low to take them off comfortably. May have tried it at 18 but wiser now  ) .

 

Edited 20 May, 20197 yr by digifish

3 minutes ago, digifish said:

 

 Which is why I matted the B pillar trim and stuffed some acoustic foam tiles up into the top of the B. I am also planning to stuff some into the sills which seem accessible from the lower B.

 

 Would love to know the procedure from removing B Pillar trim?  Sounds like a good one to tackle.

1 hour ago, Steviedakota said:

 Would love to know the procedure from removing B Pillar trim?  Sounds like a good one to tackle.

 

Here you go... (advice not the actual procedure )

 

 

1. Move the front seats all the way forward and go sit in the back.

 

2. Prise out the AIRBAG badge (you will need a thin spudger tool). Push it all the way in behind the badge. The clips are on the left and right sides of the badge (on my 2018 Nov build anyhow). So go in, in the middle. 

 

3. Use a magnetized torx tool to remove the screw behind the badge. Its about 5 cm back there. Use a magnetized tool, or a blob of blu-tak Because if you drop it, you won't see where it goes as it falls down to the bottom of the B pillar and you will be fishing for it in the sill area after removing the rest of the trim 

 

4. Start with the lower edge, get your fingers in behind the  trim and pull sharply to un-clip it. Then pull it out and the bottom and down.

 

 

5. Start at the top of the lower section and pull level with the next row of clips and finally the lower ones

 

 

6. When working in this area, I put matting on the interior metal and the back of the lower trim. I then stuffed high density foam up into the top of the B pillar through the upper hole. 

 

What I was trying to fix here, was any vibrations and sound tracking up from the sills into the B pillar. 

 

TIP: To make working around the seat belt easier, I pulled out 75% of the belt from the tensioner and used a bulldog clip to stop it retracting to give me slack. 

Edited 20 May, 20197 yr by digifish

Awesome, many thanks!

No problem, this area is surprisingly easy when you know how, the only real danger is breaking the clips on the AIRBAG badge. I did on one and super-glued it better again

 

Actually the way it felt when it came out I am fairly sure the factory cracked the clip on installation.

 

Remember to wear clean gloves (I used white latex gloves) and changed them every time I handled the upper trim. Super easy to get grubby. 

 

On replacing the upper trim go in on an angle and make sure the plastic lugs are going into the holes in the bodywork (not on the outside. Although that may be impossible, can't remember). You will probably have to wriggle left/right a little and work it hard up in there, just keep going until you see the screw hole appear. Then clip in the bottom.

 

 

 

Edited 20 May, 20197 yr by digifish

14 minutes ago, digifish said:

On replacing the upper trim go in on an angle and make sure the plastic lugs are going into the holes in the bodywork (not on the outside. Although that may be impossible, can't remember). You will probably have to wriggle left/right a little and work it hard up in there, just keep going until you see the screw hole appear. Then clip in the bottom.

 

 

 

 

Were you able to remove and install both upper and lower B pillar trims without removing the long trim covering front and rear door sills?

 

3 minutes ago, Steviedakota said:

 

Were you able to remove and install both upper and lower B pillar trims without removing the long trim covering front and rear door sills?

 

 

I never disconnected the lower B pillar trim from the sill trim, They were clipped together, but the lower sill trim is not actually clipped to the bodywork again until about 40-50 cm either side of the B pillar (I think) and so the whole lower trim just swings away from the B pillar. 

 

Installation then is just swinging it back into place and engaging the clips. Then doing the upper trim.

 

You can reach all the way to the bottom of the B pillar trim without issues. 

Edited 20 May, 20197 yr by digifish

4 minutes ago, digifish said:

 

I never disconnected the lower B pillar trim from the sill trim, They were clipped together, but the lower sill trim is not actually clipped to the bodywork again until about 40-50 cm either side of the B pillar (I think) and so the whole lower trim just swings away from the B pillar. 

 

Installation then is just swinging it back into place and engaging the clips. Then doing the upper trim.

 

You can reach all the way to the bottom of the B pillar trim without issues. 

 

Well described, I know exactly what you mean, cheers. 

 

There's my weekend job sorted!  Did you apply silent coat, closed cell or both?