Upgrade standard style suspension? Too bouncy..

[Superbbb]

Hi. I got a 2018 superb combi style 190dsg with standard chassi. 

 

I coming from a passat b7 gt, and i think the suspension in the s3  is too bouncy . Even with no load its a bit to soft, and fully loaded with the family and stuffs in the trunk it feels like a boat . 

 

I dont really need to lower the car,  just to make it firmer. How is the sportline springs (lower 15mm)? Can i use them with my suspension? Are they firmer? Are they expensive?

 

Eibach pro-kit springs ( nr 1615) lower 35mm in front and 30 mm rear. Has anyone experience of these? 

 

If i lower the car, is there anything i need to do except wheel alignment?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[digifish]

Should be a matter of damper compression/rebound settings not springs. Get some adjustable shocks?

[JR RS]

1 hour ago, digifish said:

Should be a matter of damper compression/rebound settings not springs. Get some adjustable shocks?

 

I would not recommend @Superbbb changing the shocks if it has DCC.

Otherwise, yes.

Edited 5 May, 2019 by JR RS

[digifish]

2 hours ago, JR RS said:

 

I would not recommend @Superbbb changing the shocks if it has DCC.

Otherwise, yes.

 

He did say standard suspension.

 

 

[JR RS]

1 hour ago, digifish said:

 

He did say standard suspension.

 

 

My bad.....i missed that.

[Esseesse200]

I’ve just ordered some h&r springs for

my sportline after having them on my Octavia vrs and previous vehicles before that. With great success (even fully loaded) Yes they will be lower but the sportline is still to squishy for me and even with loads of luggage in and a roof box in it was still a bit boat like. 

Will keep informed and post some pics up once I’ve got them on 

[newbie69]

15 minutes ago, Esseesse200 said:

I’ve just ordered some h&r springs for

my sportline after having them on my Octavia vrs and previous vehicles before that. With great success (even fully loaded) Yes they will be lower but the sportline is still to squishy for me and even with loads of luggage in and a roof box in it was still a bit boat like. 

Will keep informed and post some pics up once I’ve got them on 

Are you on DCC or standard suspension? DCC in Sport seems firm enough to me for the character of the car, in particular going over speed bumps or curbs for example, the car settles immediately as it "lands" without bouncing at all. On Normal it will probably bounce once and on Comfort probably twice depending on the speed.

Personally, from pics, I found the 30-35mm of the Eibach too much of a drop so 40mm with H&R's will be an even more noticeable drop. Would love to see some pics after they go on nonetheless.

[Esseesse200]

No haven’t got dcc on mine. The h&r are 35mm standard for the superb. So should be around 20mm maybe 25 on the sportline. 

[newbie69]

33 minutes ago, Esseesse200 said:

No haven’t got dcc on mine. The h&r are 35mm standard for the superb. So should be around 20mm maybe 25 on the sportline. 

 

Cheers, I suspected so. I have read similar comments about unwanted bouncing from owners of L&K's with DCC or Sportlines on standard suspension but not yet about a DCC Sportline, and my findings also agree that stock Sportline's lower springs coupled with DCC (retuned dampers) seem to be well up to the job handing wise. Even more a pitty then that they didn't drop it a further 10-15mm and complete the perfect setup which is my only slight gripe about the suspension.

You're right H&R are quoted as 35mm but from experience Eibachs always seem to drop it less even when advertising same figures, which is better if you're after a more OEM look (or worse if you like to look lowered)

Edited 5 May, 2019 by newbie69

[Esseesse200]

Hahah yea it needs to look lowered. I’m on spacers to so it should look absolutely spot on. Nearly went for eibachs adjustable spring kit because they allow you to adjust the rear ride height which would be handy when biking camping or snowboarding fully loaded, but the front is not adjustable height and lowers to 50mm !!! Ffs. Was bouncing between eibach and h&r and With loads of previous experience with H&R I decided on them 

Edited 5 May, 2019 by Esseesse200

[newbie69]

59 minutes ago, Esseesse200 said:

Hahah yea it needs to look lowered. I’m on spacers to so it should look absolutely spot on. Nearly went for eibachs adjustable spring kit because they allow you to adjust the rear ride height which would be handy when biking camping or snowboarding fully loaded, but the front is not adjustable height and lowers to 50mm !!! Ffs. Was bouncing between eibach and h&r and With loads of previous experience with H&R I decided on them 

My past experience with H&R was that they do drop at least as much as they claim and they are quite on the firm side, but I haven't compared them against Eibachs on the same car. From what I read (on other VAG cars), Eibachs seem to be a bit "milder" option (a few people were complaining the car didn't drop as much as supposed to - which for me would be a good thing) so I am considering giving those a try for this car where I don't want to go neither too low or too firm. 

However, since even with Eibachs I am not 100% happy (still too low for my perfect height) I'm considering sort of 10mm spring spacers that will get me right in the middle of stock Sportline (-10mm) and Eibach Pro Kit (-30mm) height. So basically all the fuss of springs and spring spacers for a mere 10mm change. Still I'd need to speak to some suspension specialist about it.

Edited 5 May, 2019 by newbie69

[JR RS]

2 hours ago, newbie69 said:

 

I have read similar comments about unwanted bouncing from owners of L&K's with DCC or Sportlines on standard suspension but not yet about a DCC Sportline, and my findings also agree that stock Sportline's lower springs coupled with DCC (retuned dampers) seem to be well up to the job handing wise.

 

I was under the impression that a Sportline with DCC is lower than a non-Sportline with DCC, due to having different springs?

 

Is the ride height still the same?

 

I'm assuming then there won't b much advantage sourcing Sportline springs and putting it in my car with DCC, and stick to my original plan of sourcing Eibach ProKit springs......

[newbie69]

27 minutes ago, JR RS said:

 

I was under the impression that a Sportline with DCC is lower than a non-Sportline with DCC, due to having different springs?

 

Is the ride height still the same?

 

I'm assuming then there won't b much advantage sourcing Sportline springs and putting it in my car with DCC, and stick to my original plan of sourcing Eibach ProKit springs......

It's the opposite actually:  Sportline with DCC = 10mm lower than standard/L&K. Sportline without DCC = 15mm lower than standard/L&K. So there's two types of OEM Sportline springs, depending on whether they are supposed to match a DCC suspension or not.

However, if you're thinking along the lines of "lower = firmer", it seems the best results are achieved not from the lower riding non-DCC Sportline but from the DCC one. Which actually makes sense since I doubt they would set the fixed rate, non-DCC dampers to the Sportiest setting of the DCC suspension, it's not a sports car or even a proper focused variant so it would create more complaints than satisfaction. In the end, the non-DCC Sportline is mostly about the 15mm lower look, but not as firm as one would expect, based on the reviews at least. On the Sportline DCC, engineers have the flexibility to offer a firm-er setting in Sport, with the luxury of reverting to a more comfortable setting when needed.

The L&K on the other hand, has DCC as standard but it's riding a bit higher and it's fair to assume the dampers are calibrated towards more "comfortable" targets in all 3 modes so again a more relaxed ride.

I also don't think you'd see the improvement you're after by simply putting Sportline springs on your L&K as you're missing the retuned Sportline dampers (or just the retuned algorithm but still). My gut feeling, taking into account the differences as have been reported between the different variants, is that the DCC algorithm here plays a more important role on the firmness than the springs.

Edited 5 May, 2019 by newbie69

[digifish]

I am still confused why we are spending so much time discussing springs when bounciness is the problem. Which is about shocks.

[daveb99]

I wonder if it’s possible to tweak the rebound settings of the DCC shocks using VCDS?

[Swervin_Mervin]

On 06/05/2019 at 01:57, digifish said:

I am still confused why we are spending so much time discussing springs when bounciness is the problem. Which is about shocks.

I'd say it's a combination problem. Damping overly soft and springs not quite stiff enough.

 

Driving the car today I was actually a little disturbed at just how much bounce there is with our non-dcc sportline. I swear it bottomed out at one point over a series of consecutive mild yumps/jumps and I wasn't hammering it.  The compressions seemed to upset it the most.

 

I can understand they've set it up as a wafter but it could have slightly better body control imo. Other marques manage it fine. From my experience it's a VAG thing.

 

[digifish]

1 hour ago, Swervin_Mervin said:

I'd say it's a combination problem. Damping overly soft and springs not quite stiff enough.

 

Perhaps some quality dual rate (progressive) springs then. 

 

IMO the stock car is low enough (to be close to problematic in many awkward maneuvering locations) and most of the aftermarket dual-rate springs lower the car 40-50 mm.

 

I'd start with shocks, I am sure a good adjustable shock would solve this and let you tweak it.

 

 

[ZacDaMan72]

17 hours ago, daveb99 said:

I wonder if it’s possible to tweak the rebound settings of the DCC shocks using VCDS?

Can be done via VCP but it's uncharted territory for most people. 

 

[mermade]

you could stiffen it up a touch with some poly bushes>?  https://powerflexstore.co.uk/skoda/superb-2015/

[Markbro]

2 hours ago, mermade said:

you could stiffen it up a touch with some poly bushes>?  https://powerflexstore.co.uk/skoda/superb-2015/

And possibly cure the suspension noise!

[newbie69]

18 hours ago, digifish said:

 

Perhaps some quality dual rate (progressive) springs then. 

 

IMO the stock car is low enough (to be close to problematic in many awkward maneuvering locations) and most of the aftermarket dual-rate springs lower the car 40-50 mm.

 

I'd start with shocks, I am sure a good adjustable shock would solve this and let you tweak it.

 

 

There are milder options. Eiback Pro kit and H&R both do 30-35mm which is still usable but for my like (visually) is a tad too low. But since no other springs exist that would lower it even less than 35mm, I contacted a suspension specialist and they suggested what they call spring buffers. Essentially it's a piece of hardened PVC, with the necessary profile to fit in between two coils and prevent the relative movement between them when the spring is initially compressed, so the spring doesn't drop as much as it would and the car ends up sitting 10-15mm higher (on average). However, it's not a rock solid part so it still absorbs part of the forces (and also allows the spring to extend when needed) and is thus considered much better than say milling the spring itself, which I would never consider any way. They said they fit them on several cars where they permanently need to carry lots of weight in the boot (dog houses, heavy speakers/woofers etc) or when customers don't want the full aftermarket spring drop and that they don't affect the ride or need any maintenance.

I was completely unaware of them so I am thinking of giving them a try to be honest. Worst case you can easily remove them, they install just by lifting the car up on a ramp I think.

Edited 8 May, 2019 by newbie69

[Sagalout]

I think Skoda call them transport blocks and often leave them in for customers 

[digifish]

6 hours ago, newbie69 said:

Worst case you can easily remove them, they install just by lifting the car up on a ramp I think.
 

 

Nice find. Although, worst case is - overworking the remaining coils and fractures close to the blocks 

 

Unlikely, but you are now operating the spring in a way it was not designed, with all the unintended consequences ...

 

Or, you could go for upgraded adjustable shocks and tailor the compression and rebound to perfection

[newbie69]

9 hours ago, digifish said:

 

Nice find. Although, worst case is - overworking the remaining coils and fractures close to the blocks 

 

Unlikely, but you are now operating the spring in a way it was not designed, with all the unintended consequences ...

 

Or, you could go for upgraded adjustable shocks and tailor the compression and rebound to perfection

Yeah I won't say that I knew of or had tried this solution before really, I had to speak with them on the phone to be convinced it can actually work. From what they told me, when this buffer is placed correctly (in the middle of the spring - not at the ends) you don't get any adverse effects from its installation. If it was some random product I found on ebay I would be too skeptical over such claims but the fact they are an actual suspension shop and they install this solution to customers that need slight raising of their cars gives me some confidence. I'll report back if I go ahead with it.

[daveo138]

Spring assisters.

 

Quite popular when towing, I have used them on several cars.

 

I did get a set for my last Passat, which carried 300Kg in the boot, but never got around to fitting them.

 

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/grayston-spring-assister-277238/?sku=GRYGE14&istCompanyId=a2904180-3a7d-4e56-b876-cf81c9512180&istFeedId=6fbc4b04-fd28-4ce1-8513-835c8f118690&istItemId=wptppxmlr&istBid=t&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkbqS5NKO4gIVCYbVCh0mVgLeEAQYASABEgLFOvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds