4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Hamilton could only manage to grow that lead by 13 seconds after 20 laps. 

That's an average of 0.65 seconds a lap, which is probably what Hamilton was happy with for tyre life, fuel consumption and looking after the car. If the Renault engine is so good why did they let Hamilton build up a 13 seconds lead? 🤔 

19 minutes ago, moley said:

That's an average of 0.65 seconds a lap, which is probably what Hamilton was happy with for tyre life, fuel consumption and looking after the car. If the Renault engine is so good why did they let Hamilton build up a 13 seconds lead? 🤔 

 

I am sure Carlos, Lando and Daniel were trying super hard as was Lewis and 13 seconds was the result of a Mercedes running well in clean air as it was for Carlos, what I am saying is Lewis seem to have little to no hope to get far enough ahead to make a pit stop and still come out in front of the Renault power McLaren. 

 

Mercedes is still the quickest car for a Qually lap clearly and if it stays out from in the first part of the race can build a bit of lead.  Fortunately for those of use who want to see some racing, like we enjoy in motorcycle racing, we are pleased that things are much closer.

 

Also that Mercedes seems to have Achilles heals in both tyre longevity with higher pressures and following other cars where overheating and even passing down the straights seem to be issues.

 

Hopefully next weekend circuit and some of the others to come will give us some actual racing rather than the all to common processions of the hybrid era.

 

4 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

You fail to mention a certain Max in your bad day list. He was as rubbish as Bottas.

 

Got to feel sorry for Max ?  I thought his RB had an engine issue so he was told to stop, not that it was looking he was going to score many if any points.

 

Presumable RB got the down force wrong as well as Mercedes did, ie bottled it by putting too much on which condemned them not to be able to pass other cars down the straight  very easily.

 

The Honda engined Alpha Tauri of Gasly seemed be flying around the track along with the Mercedes engined Racing Point and the Renault engined McLaren so that points to a too conservative race setup suggests to me.   

 

56 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Got to feel sorry for Max ?  I thought his RB had an engine issue so he was told to stop, not that it was looking he was going to score many if any points.

 

Presumable RB got the down force wrong as well as Mercedes did, ie bottled it by putting too much on which condemned them not to be able to pass other cars down the straight  very easily.

 

The Honda engined Alpha Tauri of Gasly seemed be flying around the track along with the Mercedes engined Racing Point and the Renault engined McLaren so that points to a too conservative race setup suggests to me.   

 

 

You seem to misunderstand a lot of F1.

 

In the race Hamilton' s Merc was one of the fastest things down the straight all day.

 

Neither Bottas or RB were particularly slow down the straight. However if a queue of cars are all getting DRS, then they all have enhanced top speed and none can pass.

 

Traffic is the limit on lap time and overtaking at Monza. The only way to overtake is to have a big tyre advantage, which the stupid red flag rules denied us, since everyone was allowed fresh tyres - even to the extent of allowing Stroll a completely free pitstop and podium chance and denying Carlos his win.

Ferraris 999th GP was more than a bit awful.

 

Interesting stat to show just where they are at right now:

 

Vettel's P17 on the grid was their worst at Monza...ever.

 

Scarfiotti's P16 in 1964 was their previous lowest qualifying position.

 

In the meantime they have produced some real pigs of cars, the gutless1966 312, the gripless1980 312T5, the agricultural 1981 126, and the simply awful1990s 643, F92A, F93A.

 

None of them have been as uncompetitive at Monza as the SF1000. Seems like it was designed for 100bhp more that it hasn't got?

 

Is it a one off, or are Ferrari on the slippery slope to where Williams are, and Lotus never really came back from?

55 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

You seem to misunderstand a lot of F1.  In the race Hamilton' s Merc was one of the fastest things down the straight all day.  Neither Bottas or RB were particularly slow down the straight. However if a queue of cars are all getting DRS, then they all have enhanced top speed and none can pass.  Traffic is the limit on lap time and overtaking at Monza. The only way to overtake is to have a big tyre advantage, which the stupid red flag rules denied us, since everyone was allowed fresh tyres - even to the extent of allowing Stroll a completely free pitstop and podium chance and denying Carlos his win.

 

It certainly is a complex subject.  Across the Finish line and in sectors 2 Lewis was not top dog but his lead gap in Int 2 is relatively massive.

 

I enjoyed the F1 race and hope the mixing up of front runners continue though the second half of the season and we get some some good viewing.

Red flag did re-deal some a bad hand some a great hand, just hope it evens out over the season for fairness sake. 

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

what I am saying is Lewis seem to have little to no hope to get far enough ahead to make a pit stop and still come out in front of the Renault power McLaren. 

Why would he? Everyone will have to pit for tyres at some point and when the dust settles he will still be out in front.  

5 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

It certainly is a complex subject.  Across the Finish line and in sectors 2 Lewis was not top dog but his lead gap in Int 2 is relatively massive.

 

I enjoyed the F1 race and hope the mixing up of front runners continue though the second half of the season and we get some some good viewing.

Red flag did re-deal some a bad hand some a great hand, just hope it evens out over the season for fairness sake. 

That says it all. Top speed figures have no bearing on the race. Bottas had the fastest car on the straights and was utterly ineffective the whole race.

3 hours ago, moley said:

Why would he? Everyone will have to pit for tyres at some point and when the dust settles he will still be out in front.  

Because lollol says Mercedes will knacker their tyres and need an extra stop, based on the evidence of 1 bad race in 2020, and despite Hamilton's long-proven knack of making them last longer than other drivers.

Edited 7 September, 20205 yr by camelspyyder

2 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

Because lollol says Mercedes will knacker their tyres and need an extra stop, based on the evidence of 1 bad race in 2020, and despite Hamilton's long-proven knack of making them last longer than other drivers.

 

Eh, last 3 races the Mercedes have various issues, tyre issues 3 races ago, nervous end at Spa where thy suspected tyre issues and Daniel was getting very close at the end and picked up fastest lap and 

much more difficult over-taking at Monza compared to their previous to this trio of races, long may it continue to make good watching. 

 

Nice summary......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB5yhZdF8SI

 

I bet Hamilton enjoyed the second half. No messing, just thrash it and try to get some points. Could have got further up with some more engine modes though.

30 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Eh, last 3 races the Mercedes have various issues, tyre issues 3 races ago, nervous end at Spa where thy suspected tyre issues and Daniel was getting very close at the end and picked up fastest lap and 

much more difficult over-taking at Monza compared to their previous to this trio of races, long may it continue to make good watching. 

 

Nice summary......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB5yhZdF8SI

 

Daniel was getting very close to what? Certainly not the Mercedes. Hamilton was cruising around Spa and beat the Renault (that was flat out) by 18.877 seconds. 

 

Edited 7 September, 20205 yr by camelspyyder

7 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

Daniel was getting very close to what? Certainly not the Mercedes. Hamilton was cruising around Spa and beat the Renault (that was flat out) by 18.877 seconds. 

 

 

In Lewis own words he said he was struggling......

 

The tyre temperatures were slowly dropping. No matter how much you were pushing, you lose rubber and then you start to lose temperature in the tyres, so it was a bit of a struggle."

 

https://f1i.com/news/382195-hamilton-admits-he-was-nervous-about-tyre-wear-in-spa.html

 

39 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

In Lewis own words he said he was struggling......

 

The tyre temperatures were slowly dropping. No matter how much you were pushing, you lose rubber and then you start to lose temperature in the tyres, so it was a bit of a struggle."

 

https://f1i.com/news/382195-hamilton-admits-he-was-nervous-about-tyre-wear-in-spa.html

 

Lewis said it was a bit of a struggle.

He also said "We're all managing, at the end everyone's backing off so that the tyres don't deflate, blow up - we have no idea what they're going to do."

If Mercedes are the only team with tyre issues at Spa Verstappen and Ricciardo should have been all over them at the end of the race, but they weren't.

So it's not "Formula 1" but "Formula tyre management" then?

F1 announce new global sponsor "Formula One Autocentres" who will guarantee all four tyres replaced during the race in under 15 minutes to spice up the on track action.

8 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

In Lewis own words he said he was struggling......

 

The tyre temperatures were slowly dropping. No matter how much you were pushing, you lose rubber and then you start to lose temperature in the tyres, so it was a bit of a struggle."

 

https://f1i.com/news/382195-hamilton-admits-he-was-nervous-about-tyre-wear-in-spa.html

 

He is a drama queen, isn't he. Wins easily at Spa and then complains how hard it was. I'd never really noticed before how like Mansell he is.

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

So it's not "Formula 1" but "Formula tyre management" then?

That's been the truth for years. It's such a shame to see F1 cars racing so slowly compared with how fast they can actually go.

2 hours ago, KenONeill said:

So it's not "Formula 1" but "Formula tyre management" then?

Yeah thats the problem drivers are managing the tyres for 95% of the race. That’s not racing.

 

they should be able to attack at all times, but then you have fuelling limits so have to lift and coast.

 

use as much fuel and as much tyre as you need i say and actually race. Also a new engine for every race so you don’t have to nurse that either.

Edited 8 September, 20205 yr by BigJase88

1 minute ago, BigJase88 said:

Yeah thats the problem drivers are managing the tyres for 95% of the race. That’s not racing.

 

they should be able to attack at all times, but then you have fuelling limits so have to lift and coast.

 

use as much fuel and as much tyre as you need i say and actually race. Also a new engine for every race so you don’t have to nurse that either.

Who would have thought it possible I've been explaining how to get 600 miles per tank from a 350+bhp car and make tyres last longer and the only ones listening are in F1.

Hypermiling an F1 car   Maybe mix it up with lego motor racing cars and my dad in his Honda jazz, after all what's the point of nearly 1,000bhp if you want to drive it like a 1.4 diesel?? 

Let Greetin’ Thunberg worry about Polar Bears and concentrate on getting back to real racing i say. None of this battery powered nonsense / 1.6l turbo diesels give me a fire breathing V10

Bring back 1.5litre turbos running on devils juice fuel producing 1500bhp (its claimed) - I remember watching the Renault F1 cars in Saturday qualifying at Brands Hatch many years ago and being totally awe struck.

 

1000bhp per litre - OMG!!!

I loved the daft 1.5 turbo era, adored the n/a V8 era, delighted in the V10 era and worshipped the V12 era.

 

V6!!! They "moo" like electric cows :( 

11 minutes ago, BigJase88 said:

Let Greetin’ Thunberg worry about Polar Bears and concentrate on getting back to real racing i say. None of this battery powered nonsense / 1.6l turbo diesels give me a fire breathing V10

Remember being at Silverstone in 1994 and before Schuey and Hill collided on track later the lunchtime entertainment was a Renault Espace MPV with a Renault V10 F1 engine in the back screaming away with massively fast gearchanges going down the pit straight. The sight and noise I will never forget and it still makes me giggle now how absurd it was and much faster than the earlier V8 Cosworth Ford Supervan.