Have you stopped to wonder, what will take priority when there are more electric cars?

Will it be homes and hospitals or cars that get the electricity when there is a "brown out"

or even a full blown power cut. People must get to work after all .....

Edited 1 January, 20206 yr by john999boy
Title typo

Get an exercise bike.

 

Or 300 hamsters.

http://gridwatch.co.uk

 

Seems like an English problem that really needs addressing.  Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland do rather well with electricity from renewables for their populations,

they have spare to sell, and can produce more if there was storage like in vehicles batteries, batteries in houses to be drawn back at peak times..

 

England had best get on with more generation of electricity and less importing of oil, gas & electric.

Better get on with less polluting of the environment.  Carbon capture, onshore turbines and solar farms and tidal systems.

 

Paying Electricity Generating Companies / Wind Farms etc not to Generate and paying for Diesel Farms to be on standby is ridiculous.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-35035717

http://theguardian.com/business/2016/dec/06/diesel-farms-national-grid-tax-breaks

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 25 December, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

When a full blown power cut will occur, we will miss the petrol engine cars. You know, those "polluting cars, responsible for the global warming, along with farting cows" unlike modern, non-polluting, electric cars that get charged with electricity produced from diesel, coal, and petrol...😒

Get on your push bike or maybe Electric Bike charged from your solar or wind generation.

Or get out your moped / scooter with some better economy from your limited fuel.

 

People will need to get to work, where there is a Full Blown Power Cut as well.

So the NHS / Care Homes etc need people in.

As to shops and offices and factories etc, well you need to do what you can without electricity.

 

When a full blown power cut occurs as it does some places, weather related, like in winter.

The fuel in the vehicles might be it for many.

A tank full and a can or 3 full.

 

The Traffic Lights will not be working. Police Stations will be without power, and the ICE police cars will be getting limited supplies of fuel 

until the Real Full Blown Power cut is over.

Mobile and Digital Phone coverage becomes pretty crap.

 

Filling stations need electricity for pumps, tills, paying by card, lights etc.

Bank need electricity, ATM's do. The shops do as well, and they can not handle cash where there is no lights on, tills, card readers

Old country filling stations might have the odd manual pump, or generators and also the supplies the emergency services need. 

Like Blair Atholl had when the A9 was closed and Pitlochry had no power.

 

Cracking Plants / Refineries take in Oil & need gas to transport the Oil and make electricity to produce Fuels, 

for road, air and water. 

Then the fuel tankers on the roads need the electricity on to get filled to deliver the road, air fuels and industrial.

 

Grangemouth and other Refineries have their own power stations.

 

 

Best that it is done as new homes are built...

 

 

 

 

Edited 25 December, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

There is not going to be a sudden surge in EV's overnight, the grid will adapt as it has done since it was born.

 

That said, if we wanted grid stability we should not have tried to save the planet by closing down all the coal stations and building loads of wind farms.

 

To put it into perspective countries outside of China reduced their coal capacity by 8.1GW through 2018 up to June 2019. In the mean time China added 43GW of coal capacity. Altogether China will have 1,100GW of coal by 2020 and the UK will have about 5 or 6 maybe less.

 

 

 

Edited 26 December, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

Wow - thanks for these video clips. I like the "plucky" Dundee quote. Good on them. Now, if only we can some English councils to watch it and act - and stop just talking about what to do. R-

 

 

 

Unless you move to 3 phase the current system won't really support anything greater than 10kW due to most houses having a 60 amp main fuse.

 

22 hours ago, gumdrop said:

Have you stopped to wonder, what will take priority when there are more electric cars?

Will it be homes and hospitals or cars that get the electricity when there is a "brown out"

or even a full blown power cut. People must get to work after all .....

 

On ships we had things called preference trips so when the voltage/cycles fell a percent or two then certain devices would trip out.

 

I suspect street lights and all sorts of non essential items will go. It can be hard to restrict power.  Grid will take power off some industries and they will then have to fend for themselves.  Not that there will be much industry left in the UK after BREXIT !  

Edited 26 December, 20196 yr by lol-lol

Well utilities, gas, electric and water / sewage, financial services, import and export, ports and airports, petrochemical plants, refineries, cracking plants, car and vehicle / plant manufacturing, food and drink production are Commerce & Industry.

Defence vehicles, weapons of mass destruction & aerospace, satellites, telecommunication equipment, computer, ships and boats, armoured vehicles, trains, buses, farm machinery etc etc etc.

The UK manufactures so much stuff that someone in the business of customs should really know these manufacturing industries.

http://britishchambers.org.uk/news/2019/11/british-firms-hit-by-power-cuts-even-as-electricity-demand-set-to-rise

 

Edited 26 December, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

11 hours ago, Roottootemoot said:

Well utilities, gas, electric and water / sewage, financial services, import and export, ports and airports, petrochemical plants, refineries, cracking plants, car and vehicle / plant manufacturing, food and drink production are Commerce & Industry.

Defence vehicles, weapons of mass destruction & aerospace, satellites, telecommunication equipment, computer, ships and boats, armoured vehicles, trains, buses, farm machinery etc etc etc.

The UK manufactures so much stuff that someone in the business of customs should really know these manufacturing industries.

http://britishchambers.org.uk/news/2019/11/british-firms-hit-by-power-cuts-even-as-electricity-demand-set-to-rise

 

 

The UK will have one of the largest, if not the largest population in Europe so there will always be a need to supply the population with all the services it needs.

 

The BAE systems shares have really done badly compared to the average of the rest of the market over the last few years so not the best place to have had shares.

 

We will see what Nissan decide with their car production in the UK ie LEAF etc.  My company deals with the higher end of the car market so I am not that close to car mass production manufacturing other than customs meetings we have and with car and motorcycle manufacturers and they are absolutely terrified as to what BREXIT will do with their business.  As a top five logistics company in Europe we can help them decant to the European mainland.

 

Lack of investment in infrastructure has been a hallmark of the Con governments of the last decade which considering doubling of the UK national debt is a real double whammy.   How long will the markets continue to loan to the UK at cheap rates.  

 

Scotland has 1/3rd of the land mass of the entire UK & plenty of resources for less than 10% of the population, 8% i think. 

It needs to be ready for the Nuclear generation reaching its end of life.

Wales has space & resources to generate electricity from renewables and develop more wind, water and solar production as well,

so it must be England as Northern Ireland has about the same population of Scotland by land mass,

So with the concentrated population it is England that needs to get on with the supplying of the population with reliable electricity etc.

On 26/12/2019 at 18:31, lol-lol said:

 

I suspect street lights and all sorts of non essential items will go. It can be hard to restrict power.  Grid will take power off some industries and they will then have to fend for themselves.  Not that there will be much industry left in the UK after BREXIT !  

 

Probably not street lights (not unless we get really desperate, think of the H&S) but they do have contracts with commercial and industrial businesses to turn off non essential consumers for when we get desperate. There is a lot less demand on the grid when nobody is at work so it doesn't take much to free up some extra power.

 

I mean on Christmas day everybody has their oven on at the same time and demand was still short of a normal weekday.

Edited 27 December, 20196 yr by SuperbTWM

Nice new delivered Hyundai Ioniq @ Angus Council headquarters.  Just enough charging points in yet, and not unusually an A/C charger out of order.

It is time that they had in a charging station with solar panels and a wind turbine and then battery storage considering this is the nearest site to the A90 in Angus.

There is plenty land available but they will let others buy it up before using what the public currently own.

On 27/12/2019 at 14:02, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

Scotland has 1/3rd of the land mass of the entire UK & plenty of resources for less than 10% of the population, 8% i think. 

It needs to be ready for the Nuclear generation reaching its end of life.

Wales has space & resources to generate electricity from renewables and develop more wind, water and solar production as well,

so it must be England as Northern Ireland has about the same population of Scotland by land mass,

So with the concentrated population it is England that needs to get on with the supplying of the population with reliable electricity etc.

 

Perhaps needs to stop subsidizing Scotland so much ?  https://news.sky.com/story/the-barnett-formula-explained-10389582

England will have Hinckley Point C Nuclear for another half a century and perhaps some similar power-stations build by EDF and the Chinese again.

Almost limitless tidal and wind in the Bristol Channel and South West Approaches.

UK needs to double its power generation so it can completely do away with gas boiler heating for homes as well as ICE cars so lots to do before Greenland melts completely and the sea rises though looking forward to the shorter sailing times from China to Europe via the Arctic Sea.    

 

About time that the England part of the UK paid more for the storage of nuclear waste that is in Scotland, and more cleaning up of sites including those in the South of Scotland.

If really England did subsidise Scotland do you think it would have continued so long?

http://channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-has-scotland-subsidised-the-rest-of-the-uk

 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45275988

Westminster has a strange way of funding things that the whole of the UK pays for, much borrowing and debt that was for exclusively England

but then it is supposed to benefit the RoUK but aiding transportation & movement of goods.

What is yours is ours and what is ours is ours is the Southern way.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50592261

Inequality is not just England and RoUK there is the North South divide.

 

 

EDF & China & New Nuclear is very much a problem of Westminster's making and again the whole of the UK pays.

HS2 just the same, Westminster messes up and everyones landed paying up.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-49823305

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16473296

 

 

Edited 29 December, 20196 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

Perhaps needs to stop subsidizing Scotland so much ?

I'm going to guess that Murdoch (and you, by association) believe that the 1.3 miles of the Limehouse Link (more to build than the entire Scottish road's budget for a year) wasn't an effective subsidy to London; that the 90% of MoD Procurement points South of the Severn-Wash line aren't an effective subsidy to the Sarf of Englandshire,...

16 hours ago, lol-lol said:

UK needs to double its power generation so it can completely do away with gas boiler heating for homes

With the cost per kWh of electricity being over 4x that of gas many people will be not be able to afford to heat their homes by electricity instead of gas, so I don't see that as a viable option.

42 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

With the cost per kWh of electricity being over 4x that of gas many people will be not be able to afford to heat their homes by electricity instead of gas, so I don't see that as a viable option.

 

Taxation can sort that out ie excise duty on gas used for heating as it is for fuel.  Charge the excise duty at the point of wholesale.  But the direction of travel is that electricity become half and then a quarter of current cost to make and hence gas just get squeezed out economically.  My Octopus energy contract is cheaper this year than last by about 8%, taking inflation in to account, and one should expect this to occur each year on average.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/offshore-wind-power-energy-price-falls-record-low-renewables-a9113876.html 

A new wave of offshore wind farms around the UK will generate power more cheaply than burning coal and for the first time will not require any subsidy.

The cost of power from offshore wind has plummeted 30 per cent in two years with a raft of 12 new energy projects coming in at a record low price of between £39.65 and £41.61 per megawatt hour, the government revealed on Friday.

 

That is less than half of the £92.50 per megawatt hour that the government has committed to pay for power from the delayed and over-budget Hinkley Point C nuclear plant which is due to open in 2025. The new projects will power around 7 million homes with clean electricity.

 

Battery, solar and wind are getting so cheap we will need logarithmic graphs as they are getting so much lower than 10 or even 5 years ago.

 

16 hours ago, KenONeill said:

I'm going to guess that Murdoch (and you, by association) believe that the 1.3 miles of the Limehouse Link (more to build than the entire Scottish road's budget for a year) wasn't an effective subsidy to London; that the 90% of MoD Procurement points South of the Severn-Wash line aren't an effective subsidy to the Sarf of Englandshire,...

 

Nothing is too much for the UK's London Dockland residence, until much of them go off to Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Paris in post BREXIT Britain.

 

I do seem to get 90% of my logistics work in the area below the Severn-Wash area that is just a fact.  Boris says he is going to have a Phase Two of moving Civil Servants up tut North, Liverpool, Manchester I would presume with a bit of Leeds and Newcastle.  He will not not want to paying too many Civil Servants more than the average UK wage of £30k or so.

 

I am all for cancelling Trident and probably HS2 also for a more even distribution of higher speed railway rather than a couple of super fast lines.  Electrification to get rid of diesel trains ASAP and make sales of lecky cars either 5% VAT or zero rate ! 

 

Lots of house building and warehouse building here in The Midlands on the M5 corridor it is not just all in the South of England.  If the Scots just took control of all their finances, became an independent country then you could forge your own way rather than being a +1 to England, along with Wales, +2 then, as Boris seems to have given North Ireland to the EU as part of his "Brilliant" rewrite of the Withdrawal deal.          

Edited 30 December, 20196 yr by lol-lol

 

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

A new wave of offshore wind farms around the UK will generate power more cheaply than burning coal and for the first time will not require any subsidy.

The cost of power from offshore wind has plummeted 30 per cent in two years with a raft of 12 new energy projects coming in at a record low price of between £39.65 and £41.61 per megawatt hour, the government revealed on Friday.

 

 

 

This makes me laugh, the only reason they can say that renewables is cheaper than coal is because they have taxed coal to the point of extinction. A coal unit running at 25% efficiency without any carbon tax would be making a killing at £40 mwh. Just think what we could do with modern coal technology.

The UK Governments have talked big on Carbon Capture schemes for years and done nothing about the ones that were viable like using the North Sea Pipelines in the Oil Fields.

Now they are spend spend spending, in the Southern part of the UK obviously. 

Time will tell how well the public's money is spent, and how much is spent and stays in the British Isles.

http://www.gov.uk/government/news/uks-largest-carbon-capture-project-to-prevent-equivalent-of-22000-cars-emissions-from-polluting-the-atmosphere-from-2021

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-46358715

http://bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27063796

300 million euro boost from the EU.  But then the UK just cant decide on deciding anything.

 

Mark Carney has a new Gravy Train to climb on with his new upcoming job.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-50868717

'UN appoints Mark Carney to help finance climate action goals.' UN Special Envoy for Climate Action and Finance.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-50621625

 

 

Edited 30 December, 20196 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

31 minutes ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

The UK Governments have talked big on Carbon Capture schemes for years and done nothing about the ones that were viable like using the North Sea Pipelines in the Oil Fields.

Now they are spend spend spending, in the Southern part of the UK obviously. 

Time will tell how well the public's money is spent, and how much is spent and stays in the British Isles.

http://www.gov.uk/government/news/uks-largest-carbon-capture-project-to-prevent-equivalent-of-22000-cars-emissions-from-polluting-the-atmosphere-from-2021

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-46358715

http://bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27063796

 

 

In terms of power generation there is only Ratcliffe powerstation that has fitted or is currently developing some form of carbon capture. 
 

I think it’s one of these ideas that look good on paper and in theory but in practice the technology isn’t there and it’s not viable at present.