All Weather tyres and Summer tyres

[Othen]

25 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

BBC South West are forecasting frost tonight (9th October) in Devon...

Eeeek! Winter isn't far away. The forecast here still has 6-7 degrees overnight for the next week or so.

[farty]

16 minutes ago, Othen said:

Eeeek! Winter isn't far away. The forecast here still has 6-7 degrees overnight for the next week or so.

It's six weeks away man!  Unless you are driving overnight the daytime road surface temps will be much higher then.

[Ootohere]

Simple weather factoids concerning driving.

 

When you listen to the weather people you might well hear the temps in towns and cities. 

Towns and cities tend to be where the weather is not at it's severest.   Like near water, sea, rivers, lochs.

Apart from a few places you build, villages, towns and cities & airports where the weather is generally warmer and least prone to fog or freezing fog.

 

Then they give the Air Temp, that is taken about 2 meters above the ground.

So you want the 'Grass Frost', or Ground temp.    That is what the tyres are driving on, the ground / road.   

The Grass Temp / Ground Temp might be 5 or 5 degrees C below the Air Temp.   

& the Road temp even lower when measured by a sensor.  

 

Hence you put down salt at around 6*oC when there is moisture there to have turned to brine.    Black ice might occur on roads when the air temp is above freezing temperatures given by the weather people or even 'Ambient Temp Sensors' on vehicles.

 

As the sun goes down it may not take long for the road temp to go below the air temp by quite a few degrees.

With a frost the road can stay at a low temp when the daylight / sunrise has happened.

A shaded part of the road still moist from the day or night before can be where the Black Ice will form even if the air temp near is high.

The season is changing now in many areas.

 

Fiddes just above Stonehaven on the A90 will have some of the lowest 'recorded' road temps quite often in winter without having the lowest air temps.

 

Bottom an example from l lunch time December 2019.

Edited 9 October, 2020 by e-Roottoot

[Kenny R]

As said when to fit your winter     ( not snow) tyres really depends on location.

As a rough rule of thumb, I normally swap mine over around the clock change at the end of this month and swap back to “summers” at the end of March.

[Ootohere]

@PetrolDave

Any forecast of Frost in or around Devon must be going to be very localised, and ground frost, or maybe inside a refrigerator or some weather forecaster has been smoking something.

 

EDIT,

Apologies,  i see that Sarah Keith-Lucas is saying 'There could even be a touch of frost in the countryside' while sweeping her hand generally across the bottom south west of the UK. 

Maybe the Met Office & the BBC has invested in a distributor of De-Icer, Pre De-Icer and Windscreen blankets.

Edited 9 October, 2020 by e-Roottoot

[Othen]

22 minutes ago, Kenny R said:

As said when to fit your winter     ( not snow) tyres really depends on location.

As a rough rule of thumb, I normally swap mine over around the clock change at the end of this month and swap back to “summers” at the end of March.

Many thanks. I'm 300 miles south of you, so probably the second week of November until mid-March.

Alan

[SurreyJohn]

31 minutes ago, Othen said:

Many thanks. I'm 300 miles south of you, so probably the second week of November until mid-March.

Alan

Ideal time would be nearer 20-30 October 
Here is temperature projection for Corby

https://www.metcheck.com/WEATHER/16days.asp?zipcode=Corby&locationID=57632&lat=52.5&lon=-0.7

[Phil-E]

Mine are getting fitted on the 17th. The only Saturday the appointment they had for weeks! (Since it's so popular here this time of year).

[Othen]

1 hour ago, SurreyJohn said:

Ideal time would be nearer 20-30 October 
Here is temperature projection for Corby

https://www.metcheck.com/WEATHER/16days.asp?zipcode=Corby&locationID=57632&lat=52.5&lon=-0.7

That is a useful website - many thanks.

alan

[VRS_White_Hatch]

I fit them around the middle of November and remove 'em early March. They are decent tyres - less road noise than the factory fit rubber - but when (or if) you do encounter any snow they are fun.

 

There's not enough fun in life IMO. And this year has been ****. So lets hope after I fit 'em we get some decent snow so I can **** myself at all the BMW and Merc drivers who can't get going.

[Phil-E]

Speaking of which. A friend of mine bought a BMW 120i last year. It came with summer and winter tyres. We had some snow and she said she'd really struggled getting home and was thinking how rubbish the car was in the snow with the rear wheels slipping all the way up the hill to her house.

 

Wasn't till she got home and realised she had the summer wheels on and not the winters! Doh! 🤣😂

[Warrior193]

Changed over to my Alpin5s yesterday, as I have an oil service and MOT due next week.

[26DIPP]

I have winter tyres in the garage and unless I have a longer trip planned I just watch the weather forecast. If frost and snow start to get forecast I put winter tyres on. It takes about one hour plus cleaning the summer wheels.

[SurreyJohn]

7 hours ago, 26DIPP said:

I have winter tyres in the garage and unless I have a longer trip planned I just watch the weather forecast. If frost and snow start to get forecast I put winter tyres on. It takes about one hour plus cleaning the summer wheels.

You are using wrong temperature threshold 

 

Winter tyres should be on for about 4-6 months, November to Mid March ( late Oct-April in North). Better than summer tyres below +7c (and weather forecasts give 2m air temperature, not ground surface which may be 4c less).   Hence why the snowflake symbol shows upto +4c.   

 

Winter tyres are more than happy at upto +15c.  So having them on for occasional warmer day in winter isn’t a problem.  

 

[Ootohere]

Winter tyres are fine into 20*oC plus in the UK where the road temp might get into the 30's. 

There is a 60 mph speed limit on the twisties and 70 on the wider roads with dual carrigeways.

 

This parallel universe of British Drivers doing high speed driving on jelly like melting and wearing down winter or all season tyres in extreme temperatures is just so much fiction.

If that is how you drive and were you drive then obviously you need your Performance High Speed & Load Rated summer or road legal track tyres on.

[farty]

tyrereviews.co.uk did a very interesting test of wet and dry braking at various temperatures.  Summer tyres are fine at low temps IN THE DRY.

On wet roads their grip drops rapidly below 10C.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKtnczk8Mxk&feature=emb_logo

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

People that bother looking at roads will see that in their home area the surfaces might well be very different from other places in towns, villages and cities.

The Tar / Asphalt & road chipped surfaces can be very very different.  Some can be very good for grip when there are nice cold and dry temperatures, and then a patch bit of road like maybe in a shaded corner / bend in the road there can be a different surface.

 

Cyclists might notice the difference more than motorised vehicle drivers.  

 

Basically, location location location.  Like some hard wearing road surfaces on faster / busier roads have surfaces that do not give great traction for braking in colder temperatures while country roads can be giving much more grip, but might get less or no treatment with Salt / Grit, or if they do there is not enough traffic to crush the salt and moisture to turn it to brine.

 

Mountain roads & routes can have lovely surfaces that suit summer and winter, not melting in the hottest days and giving grip on the cold days and nights.

Great for a blast on winter tyres on balmy winter days or nights or spring or autumn ones ...

Edited 12 October, 2020 by e-Roottoot

[26DIPP]

On 12/10/2020 at 07:25, SurreyJohn said:

You are using wrong temperature threshold 

 

Winter tyres should be on for about 4-6 months, November to Mid March ( late Oct-April in North). Better than summer tyres below +7c (and weather forecasts give 2m air temperature, not ground surface which may be 4c less).   Hence why the snowflake symbol shows upto +4c.   

 

Winter tyres are more than happy at upto +15c.  So having them on for occasional warmer day in winter isn’t a problem.  

 

 

I know about the 7°C marker. I have been using winter tyres for 36 years. In the dry - even around 0°C ground temp - summer tyres are o.k. If I drive locally and can react to weather changes I do not change tyres.

Agreed, winter in the summer are safer than summer tyres in wintery conditions.

[Othen]

On 09/10/2020 at 17:56, SurreyJohn said:

Ideal time would be nearer 20-30 October 
Here is temperature projection for Corby

https://www.metcheck.com/WEATHER/16days.asp?zipcode=Corby&locationID=57632&lat=52.5&lon=-0.7

I was just having a look at the (very good) metcheck app; it looks like the ideal time to change will be the week after next (4/5 November). Many thanks, that was helpful.

Alan

Edited 25 October, 2020 by Othen
Spelling

[Camlobe]

On 04/10/2020 at 18:51, Phil-E said:

They're much stricter when it comes to appropriate tyres. There's no fixed time period where you have to have winter tyres (or M&S marked all seasons) but the tyres have to be appropriate for the conditions. If it's frosty, icy or snowy then you can be fined for not having winters on (60€ I believe). And if not having the appropriate tyres on causes you to get stuck, have and accident and/or impede other traffic then fines can be quite large (plus points on your license).

 

But the general rule is O bis O (Oktober / October to Ostern / Easter).

 

From what I've heard (and maybe I've heard wrongly), the German requirement is for tyres with the 'three peaks' symbol.

 

The rule suggested to me was change when the clocks go forward and the clocks go back. My objections are

• it is too cute
• that would be too long a period on the cold weather tyres here (although a bit longer on the cold weather tyres is better than not long enough)

I'm currently running 'Nokian D3' tyres year round (1 year) on an Octavia and my observations are:

• they are certainly safe in summer conditions
• from this one tyre pattern, I'm generalising (guessing) that all tyres with sipes are poorer in traction than even tyres with more of an M+S/cross-climate pattern, but without the sipes
• I'm not completely happy with the setup, but that's down to needing more tyre width as much as anything. I think 10 mm wider, or preferably 20 mm wider would be better, and then I would be happier
• given the reduced traction (not cornering grip) on siped tyres, I'd be happier on all seasons
• the only real 'winter' conditions I drove through last year was a bit of slush, and they dealt with that well - you could hardly tell it wasn't dry or damp. I'm sure all seasons would have done just as well
• wear is lower than I expected - I expected softer, lower temperature, rubber to be noticeably poorer than UHP summers, and it is quite the other way around

 

And on 'tyre reviews' review of 'All Seasons' - I Note that the Bridgestone Weather Control 005  came in a mid-table position in their own test. That would be actually one of the tyres I would be more likely to go to than the tyres higher up the list - poorer snow perf than most, but good in the wet/cold conditions that are most common in the Southern UK. That the Vred Quatrac Pro (lower still down the list, but better wear, in another test) has the better wear is quite likely to persuade me, though.

 

Be completely different if I lived in Scandinavia, though.

Edited 25 October, 2020 by Camlobe
Clearer punctuation

[Phil-E]

Tyres produced after January 2018 have to have the alpine symbol on them to be winter compliant.

 

The general rule is "O bis O - Oktober bis Ostern" or October to Easter.

 

Obviously it's all weather dependent.

 

There's also a scheme backed by the government where most garages take part and they offer a free light test from October. They check all the lights work on the car and check the light alignment. Small works (replacing a bulb or adjusting the lights is also included free of charge). Just extra charges for the actual bulbs or diagnostic to change xenon lights if needed.

[SurreyJohn]

Where I am, it appears there will be a significant change to colder weather in 9 days time (of course the detail may change as get closer, as all weather forecasts are projections based on computer models)

 

But 2m air temps max 7c, min -1c.  (ground temps could be upto 4c less), so summer tyres will be highly unsuitable 

https://www.metcheck.com/WEATHER/16days.asp?zipcode=Corsham&locationID=57631&lat=51.4&lon=-2.2

 

[Camlobe]

Correction: 

 

I was confusing the results  of three tests: Tyre reviews own test, Sport auto all seasons test and ADAC all seasons test ... and i thought I was only confusing two of them.

 

Note that while the ordering of results is quite different, the cause is that in countries with predictably hard winters (Germany) snow performance is evaluated a lot higher than countries with only vague probabilities of snow. I know a lot of Scots and Country Dwellers will feel the criteria haven't been fine tuned to their needs, but that's why you have to look at the individual test results, not just the conclusion.

 

And tyre reviews look to have the link for the Sport Auto test wrong (I had my suspicions!), so you probably have to find that manually.

Edited 26 October, 2020 by Camlobe
Correction

[Carlston]

11 hours ago, Camlobe said:

Correction: 

 

I was confusing the results  of three tests: Tyre reviews own test, Sport auto all seasons test and ADAC all seasons test ... and i thought I was only confusing two of them.

 

Note that while the ordering of results is quite different, the cause is that in countries with predictably hard winters (Germany) snow performance is evaluated a lot higher than countries with only vague probabilities of snow. I know a lot of Scots and Country Dwellers will feel the criteria haven't been fine tuned to their needs, but that's why you have to look at the individual test results, not just the conclusion.

 

And tyre reviews look to have the link for the Sport Auto test wrong (I had my suspicions!), so you probably have to find that manually.

 

Here's a better link.

 

https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre-Tests/#allseason

 

You will find links to five full all-season tyre tests using the above link (in sizes 205/55R16, 225/45R17, 225/45R18, 235/55R17, 235/65R17) that were done this year in 2020, and one braking test of 32 tyres in size 205/55R16 where the best 14 went on to the full test.

 

Only the 205/55R16 test included the new Goodyear G3 and Vredestein Quatrac which came 1st and 2nd in that test.

Edited 26 October, 2020 by Carlston

[Othen]

All done for the winter :-)

 

 

Edited 1 November, 2020 by Othen