Oil temperature and DPF

[Kachaka]

Hello, have a Skoda Octavia 2014 1.6 diesel. When I bought the car 4 years ago the oil temperature was always between 85-90.. For the past couple of months it is between 70-75.. is that an issue and what could it be?

 

Also for the past month the car doesn’t have good power, start/stop and cruise control don’t work. Went to the garage and the diagnostic showed the DPF bank 1 is blocked. They told me to drive on the motorway on a lower gear for 20 mins but it didn’t work at all. Then bought from Eurocarparts Wynns DPF cleaner. Put it in the fuel tank and since then I drove 300 miles and still no improvement at all.

 

so many positive reviews about the DPF cleaner that it actually works and clean the filter.

 

any suggestions please? 

[PetrolDave]

How many miles has the car done? DPF's have a limited life, once the ash level reaches a certain amount they cannot regenerate and require to be removed and cleaned.

[Breezy_Pete]

Does the car have DSG transmission? The thermostat associated with that seems to be a common fault, leading to low temperatures, I think.

I personally wouldn't expect anything put in the fuel tank to make any improvement to a blocked DPF. Reviews may be written by manufacturer of snake-oil.

[Kachaka]

9 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

How many miles has the car done? DPF's have a limited life, once the ash level reaches a certain amount they cannot regenerate and require to be removed and cleaned.

140,000 miles. The guy told me that diagnostic shows 50% of maximum 80.. don’t know is that a lot..

[Kachaka]

2 minutes ago, Wino said:

Does the car have DSG transmission? The thermostat associated with that seems to be a common fault, leading to low temperatures, I think.

I personally wouldn't expect anything put in the fuel tank to make any improvement to a blocked DPF. Reviews may be written by manufacturer of snake-oil.

The car have 6 gears manual transmission, Greenline model. There were hundreds of really good reviews in different websites.. 

[Ecomatt]

3 hours ago, Kachaka said:

The car have 6 gears manual transmission, Greenline model. There were hundreds of really good reviews in different websites.. 

Sounds like the dpf will need to be either taken off and cleaned properly or replaced. I would personally go with having it cleaned and the dpf level reset. You could start driving in lower gears and using the engine a bit harder to help it clear out a bit. 

[Ootohere]

@Kachaka  Was it the indicated Oil Temperature between 85-90 and now 70-75?     Strange that the Oil never went higher than 90*oC.

I would have expected the Coolant to stick around that indicated temp but the Oil to get hotter in warmer weather and at higher speeds. 

[MATT0693]

In my experience, when the DPF is that blocked it needs to be removed and cleaned.
VTECH DPF cleaner has worked well for me in the past.

 

https://garagewire.co.uk/news/game-changing-dpf-cleaner-is-a-profitable-solution/

 

My DPF does a regen once it reaches around 22g, I think the threshold for the DPF light is 30g, anything north of 45g is replace the filter (based on EA228 Diesel), so worth checking the specs for yours.

[Kachaka]

31 minutes ago, roottoot said:

@Kachaka  Was it the indicated Oil Temperature between 85-90 and now 70-75?     Strange that the Oil never went higher than 90*oC.

I would have expected the Coolant to stick around that indicated temp but the Oil to get hotter in warmer weather and at higher speeds. 

Before the oil temperature was between 85-95 but now is between 70-75.. The Air conditioner is on all the time so don’t know if there is any relationship..

[Kachaka]

How much approximately is the filter to be removed, cleaned and installed again? I live in Newcastle, UK

[PetrolDave]

6 minutes ago, Kachaka said:

Before the oil temperature was between 85-95 but now is between 70-75.. The Air conditioner is on all the time so don’t know if there is any relationship..

Doubt it, I have the aircon on 24/7/365 and the oil temperature would always get to around 90+ Celsius .

[Breezy_Pete]

2 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

I have the aircon on 24/7/365

Must cost a fortune in fuel (to run the car all the time). No sleeping for you? 😁

[Ootohere]

@Kachaka  What is the cars 'Coolant temperature'  showing on the gauge once it should be up to heat?

[Ecomatt]

2 hours ago, Kachaka said:

How much approximately is the filter to be removed, cleaned and installed again? I live in Newcastle, UK

It all depends if you get it fully removed or ones that clean it whislt it is fitted. The off the car job can be expensive as they may have to drop the sub frame to get the dpf off. You would be looking at around the £350 £400 mark from what I have seen. The in car clean which will clean the majority of ash out can be around £200.

[paulski]

7 hours ago, Kachaka said:

140,000 miles. The guy told me that diagnostic shows 50% of maximum 80.. don’t know is that a lot..

 

I read that comment being,  the maxiumum value 80 refers to the ASH residue in grams. Diagnostics can read this easy enough. So it would appear you have 40 grams which is no where near a "full" dpf. 

 

That is a measurement of whats left in the dpf  thats not able to be burned off by active regeneration when the car injects diesel into the system to get the dpf really hot,  usually noticable if stopped and outside the car it stinks, the revs increase to 1100rpm and fans run on for ages when you come to a stop. 

Edited 21 January, 2022 by paulski

[Kachaka]

38 minutes ago, paulski said:

 

I read that comment being,  the maxiumum value 80 refers to the ASH residue in grams. Diagnostics can read this easy enough. So it would appear you have 40 grams which is no where near a "full" dpf. 

 

That is a measurement of whats left in the dpf  thats not able to be burned off by active regeneration when the car injects diesel into the system to get the dpf really hot,  usually noticable if stopped and outside the car it stinks, the revs increase to 1100rpm and fans run on for ages when you come to a stop. 

I meant to write 50 grams out of 80.. so it is a bit more than half. The guy in the garage told me that they never go to a maximum of 80 and at some point need to be cleaned..

Before the dpf system was regenerating more often than now.

On Monday will go to a DPF cleaner garage and will let you  know 

[J.R.]

2 hours ago, paulski said:

 

  the maxiumum value 80 refers to the ASH residue in grams. Diagnostics can read this easy enough. So it would appear you have 40 grams which is no where near a "full" dpf. 

 

Except the parameters that are read by VCDS are all calculated readings, they have an "actual" reading for soot which on my car is always 1/5 of the calculated one, the actual measurement uses the pressure drop across the DPF differential pressure sensor which if it has been calibrated using the adaptation menu should be very accurate.

 

The pressure drop is a measure of how blocked the filter honeycomb is, the sensor does not know whether the pressure drop is from soot or oil ash, if after a regen the pressure drop reduces and the actual soot value is low, say 3 or 4 grammes you can be fairly sure that the DPF is not blocked by oil ash, only the soot that builds up and is burnt off under regeneration.

 

The oil ash measure that any diagnostic tester will give is a calculated one and on my car rises by exactly 0.1 litre per 10000 miles which is as much use as a chocolate teapot when the service limit is expressed in grammes, par for the course with VAG.

 

Having fitted an EGR emulator I can see that my actual soot levels are a fraction of the calculated but sadly the car still frequently regens because the calculated reading is 22g whereas the measured is only 6g, extrapolating that I expect my car to do whatever it does when it calculates the oil ash level has hit the limit but it will in fact be much lower, when that happens if the DPF differential pressure readings are low I will just tell the ECU via VCDS that a new DPF has been fitted.

[The1effect]

11 hours ago, J.R. said:

Except the parameters that are read by VCDS are all calculated readings, they have an "actual" reading for soot which on my car is always 1/5 of the calculated one, the actual measurement uses the pressure drop across the DPF differential pressure sensor which if it has been calibrated using the adaptation menu should be very accurate.

 

The pressure drop is a measure of how blocked the filter honeycomb is, the sensor does not know whether the pressure drop is from soot or oil ash, if after a regen the pressure drop reduces and the actual soot value is low, say 3 or 4 grammes you can be fairly sure that the DPF is not blocked by oil ash, only the soot that builds up and is burnt off under regeneration.

 

The oil ash measure that any diagnostic tester will give is a calculated one and on my car rises by exactly 0.1 litre per 10000 miles which is as much use as a chocolate teapot when the service limit is expressed in grammes, par for the course with VAG.

 

Having fitted an EGR emulator I can see that my actual soot levels are a fraction of the calculated but sadly the car still frequently regens because the calculated reading is 22g whereas the measured is only 6g, extrapolating that I expect my car to do whatever it does when it calculates the oil ash level has hit the limit but it will in fact be much lower, when that happens if the DPF differential pressure readings are low I will just tell the ECU via VCDS that a new DPF has been fitted.

Oil ash rise bi 0.1 in 10.000 miles? In mine I saw a difference of 0.8 in 4.000 mile. Are you sure you got the correct measurements?  I believe my engine works normally 

[gm73]

23 hours ago, Kachaka said:

Hello, have a Skoda Octavia 2014 1.6 diesel. When I bought the car 4 years ago the oil temperature was always between 85-90.. For the past couple of months it is between 70-75.. is that an issue and what could it be?

 

Also for the past month the car doesn’t have good power, start/stop and cruise control don’t work. Went to the garage and the diagnostic showed the DPF bank 1 is blocked. They told me to drive on the motorway on a lower gear for 20 mins but it didn’t work at all. Then bought from Eurocarparts Wynns DPF cleaner. Put it in the fuel tank and since then I drove 300 miles and still no improvement at all.

 

so many positive reviews about the DPF cleaner that it actually works and clean the filter.

 

any suggestions please? 

A motorway run is no use. You need to give it an absolute thrashing down a B road dropping gears at high revs to get the correct temperature - what’s called an Italian tune up. My DPF light came on at 120k, I stuck in some DPF cleaner and super diesel thrashed it down country roads for an hour and it cured the problem. Car is now on 220k (with a different owner) and there’s been no DPF issues since. I had the same car as you - a 2015 Octavia 1.6 TDI CR. 

Edited 22 January, 2022 by gm73

[Ootohere]

^^^ IMO what tosh, thrashing is not required. That is from someone that 2 years ago used to get a DPF warning light out in a Euro 6 2.0 TDI / SCR DSG after 8 miles of a run out on back roads,  then a few thousand miles later it started to need to be 20 miles or so.  Thrashing has no place in this just 60 mph on NSL roads was fine.  The clogged DPF was just happening when maybe 5 days in a week only doing a few miles in a 30 mph limit.  Cold starts.  That was when 25 mpg might be normal from cold starts.   On a run the car got 45-60 mpg.  

[Kachaka]

57 minutes ago, gm73 said:

A motorway run is no use. You need to give it an absolute thrashing down a B road dropping gears at high revs to get the correct temperature - what’s called an Italian tune up. My DPF light came on at 120k, I stuck in some DPF cleaner and super diesel thrashed it down country roads for an hour and it cured the problem. Car is now on 220k (with a different owner) and there’s been no DPF issues since. I had the same car as you - a 2015 Octavia 1.6 TDI CR. 

Ok I will try that but the issue is because the car is in a safety/limp mode doesn’t have good acceleration/power and will be hard to drive fast on low gears. Even on the motorway is hard to accelerate over 60mph unless is in downhill.

[ChoonDoode]

3 hours ago, gm73 said:

A motorway run is no use. You need to give it an absolute thrashing down a B road dropping gears at high revs to get the correct temperature - what’s called an Italian tune up. My DPF light came on at 120k, I stuck in some DPF cleaner and super diesel thrashed it down country roads for an hour and it cured the problem. Car is now on 220k (with a different owner) and there’s been no DPF issues since. I had the same car as you - a 2015 Octavia 1.6 TDI CR. 

 

I very much agree. Nothing like an Italian tune up. 

 

2 hours ago, roottoot said:

^^^ IMO what tosh, thrashing is not required. That is from someone that 2 years ago used to get a DPF warning light out in a Euro 6 2.0 TDI / SCR DSG after 8 miles of a run out on back roads,  then a few thousand miles later it started to need to be 20 miles or so.  Thrashing has no place in this just 60 mph on NSL roads was fine.  The clogged DPF was just happening when maybe 5 days in a week only doing a few miles in a 30 mph limit.  Cold starts.  That was when 25 mpg might be normal from cold starts.   On a run the car got 45-60 mpg.  

 

There's nothing wrong with giving the car a blast every now and then. I'm starting to do more motorway miles now and I'm noticing the car is doing a lot of active regens. On the motorway because of the cold weather, my car doesn't get up to temperature quickly. Talking a good few miles to get up to proper water temperature and best part of 10 miles for the oil to be 70+'c. This is from finishing at well past midnight and the temperature is close to 0'c. Come the end of the journey, can't say I see the oil getting close to 90'c often. It's often lower when there's the 50mph cameras on for the roadworks. I'll have to take my VCDS to work tonight and run it all the way home, because I can't see the EGT's getting high enough quick enough

 

Last week before I filled up, I came off the motorway a junction earlier, gave it a blast down the back B road by me and got the car well up to temperature (fans blasting and oil 100'c+) and the active regen it was attempting to do got finished.

[Ootohere]

Nothing wrong with a blast.  Thrashing not necessary.  

 

Still not sure what this has to do with the OP and the Oil Temperature.         

 

   If going for a blast or thrash or just a drive to do a regen you want the Engine up to temp, that will be the coolant to temp and the Oil to Temp as it is a coolant.

The Normal Oil Operating temp indicated in the UK with a TDI is about 90*oC and the oil gets hotter but the Coolant helps reduce that to around 90*oC.

 

If the Oil after 15 miles or so even in cold weather is showing only 70-75*oC then something needs sorting. 

[Ootohere]

@Kachaka

Has your car had the VW Group Emissions Cheat FIX carried out, so the new Engine Management and a flow device fitted in the Air Intake?

Was that done before you got it or since?

 

http://skoda-auto.com/services/recall-actions

 

Edited 22 January, 2022 by roottoot

[J.R.]

On 22/01/2022 at 11:36, The1effect said:

Oil ash rise bi 0.1 in 10.000 miles? In mine I saw a difference of 0.8 in 4.000 mile. Are you sure you got the correct measurements?  I believe my engine works normally 

Not at all sure, I am working from memory and the units being a volume are meaningless when the service limit for the DPF is expressed in grammes.

 

I am probably out by one decimal place in one direction or the other, what I can say with certainty is the the number clicks up one digit every 10000 miles, it was 0.9 (or 9 or 0.09) from 90K miles throught to 100K when it increased to 1.0 (or 10 or 0.1).

 

But despite 2 years of googling nowhere can I find what the service limit is in volume terms or a conversion factor from grammes to volume so I am no closer to knowing how close to full my ECU erroneously believes the DPF to be, I am doing frequent long removal journeys towing trailers at present, 500 miles yesterday, the frequency of regens is far too high and it does not take into account all the passive regeneration going on, I rely heavily on the vehicle at present and need to know if it is going to arbitrarily shut down soon.