Missed mentioning there were AirCon & Radio open circuit error codes were found , never had issue with radio .

cheers  

1 hour ago, raky said:

My approach would be ask mechanic to test engine pressure

Have a combustion check.

 

You may have an engine problem and possibly an electrical or computer related problem, cheap unreliable sensor(s).

 

On 03/04/2022 at 21:36, raky said:

was able to rotate the battery connector with little extra force, it means battery connectors hole was bigger even after full tight. So I have added extra thin wire to make it 100% tight. ( suspecting this could have existing issue as remembered  in old battery as well but mechanic said it is fine )

This sounds bad to me, have you a positive sized connector on the negative battery post - put up a photo of battery connections - a poor quality connection could cause all sorts of problems, some of which you might have.  Deal with the simple basic stuff first and you might save a lot of hassle and messing around.

 

2-3 mile journeys do the car no good and are not enough to warm the car for testing or live scan data of many issues.

 

I missed why you don't have fuel but no fuel delivery and poor quality electric delivery would make starting the car, er, difficult, so another basic, you need fuel it you want the car to start and run.

 

If nothing else this is an interesting situation you have brought here.

 

Hi Experts , I am keen to do below tests and  not in rush but don't want  garages to beat around the bush and keep changing unnecessary parts. Can any body please had done similar tests and share digram/utube links  or experiences if it can be possible even , I can use multimeter and have basic tools as well,  apologies if it is big list please

 

Tests:  (Car Skoda Fabia mk1 2007 )   - intermittent P0171, bad idling , black smoke again , power loss ,( Mechanic informed no piston/gasket/rings issue after high rev for good few minutes and using sophisticated scanner )

• Checking fuel pressure. (How much psi,  which pipe needs to be connected with gauge digram/utube link if any please) 

• leaking fuel injector check ( how to open them tools needed, saw video if we they are leaking we can see them after opening them and switching on the ignition?)

• purge valve (how to open purge value , I think I know how to check it check it .. saw some videos)

• fuel pressure regulator – (Shall I change pressure regulator?? )

• fuel filter – ( will take professional help for this definitely cannot do myself )

• oxygen sensor –do I change again  ( just changed few months lemark sensor, 2nd sensor  in 2 years - bank1- ebay bought, bank2 was also chnaged 3-4 years bought from euro parts )  

• coolant temperature sensor - Dashboard value seems fine( reckon no issue)

• air intake temperature sensors – changed already  ( MAF sensor ) 

• vacuum leak - smoke test ( which pipe to connect for pushing smoke in the system)

• check pcv valve ( do u think changing ?) 

• Check Exhaust System for Leaks. ( how to check )

• Check Secondary Air System for Leaks. ( how to check) 

• changing spark plugs ( ur views ,chnaged few months 4-5k driven)

• Cleaned throttle body wasn't dirty but after pressing flap it was little black ( used recommended spray)

• Any test to remove o2 sensor to rule out  any o2 sensor  issue,  I can disconnect the bank 1 lambada sensor and understand the behaviour of car any approach please???

• Changing park coils ( changed number 2 spark coils 4-5 months when car was misfiring but no misfiring at the moment)  

 

Thanks for reading please.

 

Kind Regards 

raky

 

 

Ok, dash reading for correct engine temperature is meaningless, change the ECT, it's cheap and easy to do.

YOUR CAR DOES NOT HAVE A MAF!!!!111ONE

MAP sensor will be fine.

All the other guff is a all waste of time, the car is overfuelling, it can only be the ECT or the pre-cat Lambda probe causing it realistically.

Disconnect the ECT completely and see if it runs any better.

1 hour ago, sepulchrave said:

Ok, dash reading for correct engine temperature is meaningless, change the ECT, it's cheap and easy to do.

YOUR CAR DOES NOT HAVE A MAF!!!!111ONE

MAP sensor will be fine.

All the other guff is a all waste of time, the car is overfuelling, it can only be the ECT or the pre-cat Lambda probe causing it realistically.

Disconnect the ECT completely and see if it runs any better.

Much appreciated  @sepulchrave for your time to offer help ,  thanks for coming quickly please, Your approach makes senses thats why engine fan is not working possible ECT is not sensing heat in it so not triggering fan to kick off.    Sorry I meant MAP only  don't know correct name , apologies for that , attempted to disconnect ECT after disconnecting few other sensors to make some room , but no room to reach to ECT as the removal clips are   downwards & unreachable   assessed the situation and it seems  unless I remove radiator  coolant pipe which seems filled with coolant , ECT cannot be disconnected , Any thought please ??? I can take challenge of emptying the coolant and even remove the pipe if needed please,  appreciated for your time and help.    Thanks Kind regards 

Edited 10 April, 20224 yr by raky

The CTS has nothing to do with the radiator fans they are controlled by a thermal switch on the radiator 

 

Clean throttle valve control unit -J338- Note t If a new engine control unit is fitted, the throttle valve control unit -J338- must be adapted. The adaptation must only be carried out with a new or cleaned throttle valve control unit -J338-. Dirt/carbon deposits in the end stop of the throttle valve can lead to incorrect adaptation values. t The throttle valve support must not be scratched when cleaning. – Remove air filter housing: t Engine identification characters AUA, AUB, BBY, BKY, BBZ  t Engine identification characters BUD  – Remove throttle valve control unit -J338-

– Open the throttle valve manually and block the throttle valve in the opened position with a suitable object (e.g. plastic or wooden wedge) WARNING Acetone is easily inflammable. Observe the accident prevention regulations and the safety instructions when handling easily inflammable fluids. Do not use compressed air when cleaning the throttle valve. Wear safety goggles and safety clothing, in order to avoid injuries and skin contact with fuel.

– Thoroughly clean the throttle valve support, in particular the area of the closed throttle valve , with commercially available acetone in accordance with DIN 53247 and a paint brush. – Wipe the throttle valve support with a fluffy cloth. – Let the acetone dry off completely and re-install the cleaned throttle valve control unit -J338-. – Adapting the engine control unit to the throttle valve control unit -J338- → Vehicle diagnostic, testing and information system VAS 5051.

5 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

Ok, dash reading for correct engine temperature is meaningless, change the ECT, it's cheap and easy to do.

YOUR CAR DOES NOT HAVE A MAF!!!!111ONE

MAP sensor will be fine.

All the other guff is a all waste of time, the car is overfuelling, it can only be the ECT or the pre-cat Lambda probe causing it realistically.

Disconnect the ECT completely and see if it runs any better.

I think ECT temperature response of engine may be checked  below as suggested on net not sure if it make sense please? Any thoughts please if it can help me tick this sensor.

https://www.obd2-code.com/2017/07/p0171-fuel-system-bank-1-sensor-1-lean.html 

 

Engine coolant temperature sensor operation:

- For best result, allow the vehicle to sit long enough for the engine to cool down near ambient temperature.

Turn the ignition on.
With the scan tool, read the Engine Coolant Temperature degree value. If the engine was allowed to sit overnight (cold soak), the temperature value should be a sensible value that is somewhere close to the ambient temperature. If engine coolant temperature is above 82°C (180°F), allow the engine to cool until 65°C (150°F) is reached.

Start the engine: During engine warm up monitor the Engine Coolant Temperature degree value. The temperature value change should be a smooth transition from start up to normal operating 82°C (180°F). Also monitor the actual coolant temperature with a digital thermometer at or near the ECT sensor and thermostat positions.

As the engine warms up to operating temperature, the actual coolant temperature (thermometer reading) and the scan tool Engine Coolant Temperature degree values should stay relatively close to each other.

 

 

Thanks @nige8021 I have looked throttle body looks very clean in-fact I sprayed little bit recommended cleaner inside throttle body a  very small carbon came out when I used cleaned with cloth , will try to see if I can clean it after removing , I have already bought seal of throttle body from Skoda as I was thinking on those lines but mechanic said no need for it so left it.

Once in 12  months I always used fuel cleaner additives . 

cheers  

Does the water temp gauge indicate 90c when it's been running for a while ? if it does then the CTS is doing it's job correctly, as in that bit you have posted, check the live data with a stone cold engine and see if it's at or around ambient temp if it's reading silly low or high then it will affect the engine at start up as the ECU will think the engine is really cold or hot and adjust the fuelling schedule to suit

3 hours ago, nige8021 said:

Does the water temp gauge indicate 90c when it's been running for a while ? if it does then the CTS is doing it's job correctly

 

That's incorrect. Temp gauges on  modern cars are stabilised to read 'normal' over a wide temp range. The dash gauge reading means nothing. Also, the CTS doesn't only control the temp gauge but has a separate circuit for the ECU. The gauge can still function but the ECU cold-start fuelling side of the sensor can be toast.

Edited 10 April, 20224 yr by TMB

10 hours ago, TMB said:

the CTS doesn't only control the temp gauge but has a separate circuit for the ECU. The gauge can still function but the ECU cold-start fuelling side of the sensor can be toast.

Not on a Fabia Lee, maybe you're thinking Felicia?

Single two-wire sensor on Fabia read by engine ECU, forwards info by CAN to the Instrument cluster which then displays stuff on the gauge with its 'customer reassurance filtering' factored in.

Very bad sensor data might be visible if the gauge doesn't ever get to an indicated 90°C, for example (iff the thermostat is OK).

 

 

I wish I could help the OP, but we're drowning in symptoms and theories and not much clarity about what has/hasn't been tried and ruled out, I feel.

 

46 minutes ago, Pete_Ex-Wino said:

Not on a Fabia Lee, maybe you're thinking Felicia?

 

No I meant the Fabia but forgot about there not being separate circuits. However, it does control cold running which can be faulty without anything showing on the 'customer reassurance gauge' 😁

Edited 11 April, 20224 yr by TMB

Superfluous post.

Edited 11 April, 20224 yr by TMB

The gauge reads 90c for an actual coolant temp between 75~105c 

1 hour ago, nige8021 said:

The gauge reads 90c for an actual coolant temp between 75~105c 

I'm not disputing this just interested to know where you found this info.

 

10 minutes ago, nta16 said:

I'm not disputing this just interested to know where you found this info.

 

 

I was 2c out in my original comment but that was just going off a failing memory, the pic below is from ElsaWin a copy of the stealers workshop manuals 

@nta16 I also saw the evidence when I converted a petrol speedo to diesel for my old mk1 Octy to do this I had the download the eeprom data and put the diesel tacho figures into the petrol eeprom and I plotted the input/ouput of the other gauges using a XLS file converter  and you could see the plateau on the temperature input to output so I did a bit of reverse plotting to have the plateau removed 

I'd advise only buying a genuine CTS as some of the pattern ones can be rubbish.

I can understand why the manufacturers do it and I fell for it when I first got a new Japanese car, as it was Japanese I just thought it was good like the rest of the car, being more used to old British cars.

 

With the old British cars the numbers and then markings disappeared off some of the gauges as the years and decades passed as the owners got too worried about exact figures and how they compared with other people's cars, particularly so when people bought them as "classics" more to look at than actually drive (sometimes they did need to worry though).

 

Edited 12 April, 20224 yr by nta16
spelling

My mate's MK2 Fabia doesn't even have a temp gauge, just a warning light. Seems more and more common with modern cars but I prefer having a gauge.

Seemed to be a fashion with the manufacturers, perhaps 15-20(?) years back not to have a gauge just blue symbol until the engine warmed up.  I can remember further back a mate's girlfriend overheating the engine and when I asked if she'd not seen the gauge rising he said it didn't have one and sure enough it didn't, first time I'd seen such a thing, bottom of the range small French car, forget which.

 

Edited 12 April, 20224 yr by nta16
spelling

HI Experts, Thanks all for taking their time to share knowledge and experience which is also encouraging me to share progress about my car , Around 5 years ago, my temperature bar was not moving and temperature sensor was faulty so I think if temperature sensor will not move on dashboard if it is faulty.

 

 

 Anyway I had visit to 4th garage today unfortunately again without any luck , I have seen some wires bundle  wet after rains, seems rainwater from roof is not draining properly from outlet pipes may be sipping in wiring. Need to sort out that once car is back.

 

Today  Car driven for 2 miles to garage  without any issue but lot of wet watery smoke, it was quick cold start.  Of course still Radiator fan is not starting and Coolant is expanding at least 2to 4cm  in coolant tank.

 

 

 

Th scan result from this garage was 1 Air Con ( form long time I knew it was there , it never bothered me as I don't use air conditioning )  error and P0171 still exists. Just noticed behaviour when I disconnect the battery for a while &  car runs smooth  without any issue for few good miles but with black wet smoke. Today brought home car  from garage with great difficulty  since mechanic had tasted  the car and engine was hot , it  was getting switched off frequently  when foot was removed from gas , was not allowing any idelining  at all.  Again late evening started again when engine was cold same idliining issue. Now possible disconnect the battery and see wht happens.

 

Today I have used different scanner app/version and found some more info which are different from last time - short term fuel trims and long term fuel trims are both negative for todays scan also noticed crank timing was -3 degree and 1 degree after starting the car it was zero in past ,  there was also extra info I got which was very surprising to see the systems checks

- 1. Catalyst - Not passed, Evaporation System - Not passed EGR System -Not Passed , Oxygen Sensor -Not Passed .  

 

 

I will keep u posted , I would disconnect battery and see if I can drive another 5 miles for different known garage again as they  have smoke test machine , if this garage  fails then I have final option to use 1 expert who charges huge but expert in this field got reference from few garages , Mostly mechanics are thinking that Manifold sensor may be of poor quality, I have bought it from euro parts of £60 GBP. Euro Sensor was made by HAAS Company , I have checked original sensor from skoda and it is £103, worst case scenario I shall replace again with new one or even try cleaning the old one and fit it & see. wht happens.  (Any idea if I can test these sensors out side car artificially please???)

 

Read experts views in this  forum  ,  look there is some connection of cold & warm engine behaviour once it goes bad then it remembers and messes later , but if battery is removed it resets the ecu and possibly goes smooth for few miles of course with bad wet smoke.  here are some screen attached idle and running , any idea if manifold pressure values are making sense??? , I have also noticed today that shrt term fuel /long term fuel both were negative past scan had  only short term fuel negative ..

 

 High mileage car possibly need below listed checked as per service manual  -

- Get regular checked all sensors ,

- Get rainwater outlet pipes cleaned ,

- Cam/fan belt change on proper time /mileage

- Change clutch plate on time/milage 

-Regularly get checked engine piston/rings health

- Normal serve of engine oil oil/air filters change it at least once in  year. 

 

Thanks for reading please.

 

cheers 

raky

 

Edited 15 April, 20224 yr by raky

41 minutes ago, raky said:

Around 5 years ago, my temperature bar was not moving and temperature sensor was faulty so I think if temperature sensor will not move on dashboard if it is faulty.

 

As has already been said, the temp gauge can still show normal readings on the dash even though the CTS has drifted out of spec enough to affect running. They are relatively cheap and the same on all Mk1 Fabias (06A 919 501A), so why not just rule it out? If the one you fitted five years ago wasn't genuine it could be defective.

Edited 15 April, 20224 yr by TMB

15 minutes ago, TMB said:

 

As has already been said, the temp gauge can still show normal readings on the dash even though the CTS has drifted out of spec enough to affect running. They are relatively cheap and the same on all Mk1 Fabias (06A 919 501A), so why not just rule it out? If the one you fitted a few years ago wasn't genuine it could be defective.

 

Ok , Much appreciated Lee, I think that makes perfect  sense as radiator fan is also not working and coolant level is going up when it is heated but it was warm when I opened and checked it, let me please try to change asap as I have Wednesday appointment for smoke test , would have been easy at home  smoke tester DIY but difficult to make had partial success but not fully & gave up ( want to drive car minimum, as rich fuel may be hurting engine ) , I want to buy all original sensors from skoda, as they should have longer life with guarantee but time being I shall buy from euro parts and use it.

 

Thanks a lot 

 

Cheers 

 

 

 

Edited 15 April, 20224 yr by raky

I don't know if you are in the UK but there is a genuine one on ebay for £19....

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184853005255?epid=1748924250&hash=item2b0a1903c7:g:FXkAAOSwXaRgq3DH