Dsg box

[EnterName]

11 hours ago, TheUltraRunner said:

That it is called an automatic transmission for a reason. So you don't need to do anything since the gearbox does everything for you. But with your style of driving that's not the case.

I have a full answer to this, but TL:DR AutoHold is a game-changer on this issue and my car doesn't have it.

 

That said....

 

As I'm sure you know, the DSG is a dual clutch gearbox that operates automatically. It's far different to a traditional automatic gearbox.

While the DSG offers the convenience of a traditional automatic, with improved fuel economy and the ability to shift gears more quickly than a manual gearbox, it has the same basic operation as a traditional gearbox, though with two clutches and two banks of gears.

Gears 1, 3, 5, (and maybe 7) on one bank, and gears 2, 4, 6 (and maybe 8 ) on the other. Pre-selecting the next gear with the clutch disengaged on the other bank of gears to the one in use with the clutch engaged, is what gives the DSG its speed advantage.

To change gear, the active bank disengages its clutch, and at almost precisely the same time, the inactive bank engages its clutch and the car has changed gear.

 

The DQ381 gearbox and manual handbrake set-up on my 2019 car is not one of the very latest gearboxes, and so it still needs to be driven with some of the considerations that should be would used when driving a manual gearbox.

I suspect the newer gearboxes featuring electronic handbrakes with AutoHold really do not need to be taken out of drive mode when at the lights, and are perfectly happy sat there for some time with the clutch completely disengaged.

As I indicated originally, my gearbox does not completely disengage the clutch when stationary in drive.

12 hours ago, EnterName said:

When my car is stationary, the car does seem to "relax" (for want of a better word) when I put it into neutral from drive.

 

The Octavia manual does not need to change, because it tells drivers what they may do, without prescriptively telling them what they should do.

So for me "The selector lever position N does not have to be selected if stopping for a short time, such as at cross roads." means "Don't worry about burning out the clutch on the 1,3,5,7 bank of gears waiting at a junction in drive, so long as you're only going to be riding the clutch for a short time."

For cars with AutoHold, "The selector lever position N does not have to be selected if stopping for a short time, such as at cross roads." means "Don't worry about burning out the clutch because you can't, but it's probably a good idea for road safety to put the car in neutral and bung the handbrake on if you're going to be sat for a while."

 

On mine, the gear selector and handbrake are big levers that invite use.

 

On the cars with electronic handbrakes and AutoHold,  the gear selector and handbrake controls are reduced to switches, which are not intended to be used in the same way, because they don't need to need to be.

AutoHold does automatically what I have to do manually. As I seem to be getting a hint of rheumatism in my elbow, if that gets much worse, I may start to think of electronic handbrakes and AutoHold as very good ideas.

 

In summary, I suspect a few of us have been talking at cross purposes here, without fully understanding the intricacies of the vehicles involved. I certainly didn't know about AutoHold at the start of this thread.

There have probably been a few people who understood the difference between cars with and without AutoHold, who were wondering what we were arguing about.

Oh well, hopefully this thread has shed some light on the issue and we managed to do it without anyone getting angry about it. Lovely! 😊

[Ootohere]

Skoda do not have newer DSG's than the DQ381.

 

There is that or the DQ500, or there are DQ200's (DQ200-e) 

 

Then with PHEV's DQ400's

[EnterName]

46 minutes ago, toot said:

Skoda do not have newer DSG's than the DQ381.

 

There is that or the DQ500, or there are DQ200's (DQ200-e) 

 

Then with PHEV's DQ400's

Thanks for putting me right on that, @toot.

Presumably AutoHold lifts the DSG clutch completely clear on vehicles with the feature?

 

One other fly in my ointment is that as my DSG was reprogrammed with my engine remap, it may well be that my clutch set-up is different to the standard settings, hence my different DSG driving experience to others.

Edited 6 April, 2023 by EnterName

[TheUltraRunner]

51 minutes ago, toot said:

Skoda do not have newer DSG's than the DQ381.

 

There is that or the DQ500, or there are DQ200's (DQ200-e) 

 

Then with PHEV's DQ400's

I was told that in mk4 Octavias RS and Golf 8 GTI there is a revised version of Dq381 gearbox with some changes in oil flow and cooling. But this is not 100% confirmed information.

[Ootohere]

They might well be revised versions. 

 

 That has them being DQ400-e in a PHEV.   

Only Electric Vehicle Qualified Technicians should work on the cars with them if it is in the engine compartment and servicing the DSG.

Edited 6 April, 2023 by toot

[TheUltraRunner]

Quote

I have a full answer to this, but TL:DR AutoHold is a game-changer on this issue and my car doesn't have it.

I have AutoHold but I don't use it. 😂
 

Quote

 

The Octavia manual does not need to change, because it tells drivers what they may do, without prescriptively telling them what they should do.

So for me "The selector lever position N does not have to be selected if stopping for a short time, such as at cross roads." means "Don't worry about burning out the clutch on the 1,3,5,7 bank of gears waiting at a junction in drive, so long as you're only going to be riding the clutch for a short time."

For cars with AutoHold, "The selector lever position N does not have to be selected if stopping for a short time, such as at cross roads." means "Don't worry about burning out the clutch because you can't, but it's probably a good idea for road safety to put the car in neutral and bung the handbrake on if you're going to be sat for a while."

 

Thanks for a long post. I think I need to try this AutoHold function and see if I can maybe incorporate it in my driving style or better say in my driving habits. Maybe I could get used to that.

[EnterName]

16 minutes ago, TheUltraRunner said:

I have AutoHold but I don't use it. 😂
 

Thanks for a long post. I think I need to try this AutoHold function and see if I can maybe incorporate it in my driving style or better say in my driving habits. Maybe I could get used to that.

I am on a steep learning curve here as I really don't know anything about AutoHold.

I didn't know it was something you had a choice about using or not.

Having just read up on it, I don't think I'd use it, either. I think I'd rather just bung the handbrake on.

That said, it looks like AutoHold isn't related to the electronic handbrake, it's an ABS/ESP-based thing. So presumably it's technically possible to have a standard lever handbrake and AutoHold.

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/technology/driver-assist/braking.html

 

Edited 6 April, 2023 by EnterName
Added some VAG AutoHold info

[Ajdolin]

I find this thread very interesting as a first time owner of a new car with dsg - sure don’t want to mess up things as I tend to use it for several years, so thanks to all who participate in the debate 👍

It also made me try and use the Start/stop which I have been strictly switching off. It does turn the engine off quite fast, sometimes even before coming to a complete stop, but it starts when the car in front of me moves - didn’t expect that, new to Start/Stop as well 😊 But that’s already offtopic so let’s end it here. Will keep following this thread.

[SkOmk4]

To add to the list of drivers that put the gearbox into Neutral at longer stops - I'm also doing that, but on the manual gearbox. And if there's a slight slope I'm usually using the handbrake, not only to relax the leg, but also because I hate bothering those behind me with the brake lights (especially in rainy weather).
On the other hand, I keep the DSG in D/S at red-light and most of the time I'm using the Auto-hold while driving through urban traffic. (I know the brake lights will bother some of the rear drivers - I apologize, it's the system's fault, not mine).

I also had a dual-clutch without Auto-hold (the Megane 4 GT EDC) and for longer stops I used to push the gear-lever to N and apply (electric) hand-brake when the road configuration required it.

[LarsKC]

On 06/04/2023 at 13:32, TheUltraRunner said:

I have AutoHold but I don't use it. 😂
 

Thanks for a long post. I think I need to try this AutoHold function and see if I can maybe incorporate it in my driving style or better say in my driving habits. Maybe I could get used to that.

Well - I've been driving a manual gearbox for 20+ years, and never missed an automatic. Now I can't imagine life without it......

 

I've also driven 20+ years without ACC. Now I can't imagine life without it.

 

And I've been driving 20+ years without even knowing the existence of Auto Hold........... Well, you can guess the rest 😎

[WaveyDavey]

Sort of related to this thread but having picked up my vRS today I’m trying to work out how you get the engaged gear to be displayed on the digital dash?

 

i just see a D in the bottom corner but no indication of what actual gear the car is in?

 

Every other DSG I’ve driven has said D1, D2, D3 etc…… somewhere in the dashboard so is it available in one of the options somewhere and I’m missing it?

[Ootohere]

D1,2, 3 etc or S1,2, 3 etc except if coasting then just D.  

What engine / drivetrain of a vRS have you, and what age?

[WaveyDavey]

3 minutes ago, Rooted said:

D1,2, 3 etc or S1,2, 3 etc except if coasting then just D.  

What engine / drivetrain of a vRS have you, and what age?

It’s a January 2022 petrol DSG and just displays D in the bottom left hand corner of the digital cockpit as far as I’ve noticed never D1, D2 etc…..

[Neily03]

57 minutes ago, WaveyDavey said:

It’s a January 2022 petrol DSG and just displays D in the bottom left hand corner of the digital cockpit as far as I’ve noticed never D1, D2 etc…..

That’s correct, just D when in drive.  If you put the gearbox into sport then it’s will show the gear, S1, S2…. etc. 

[shempy]

I wish the gear change indicator was larger

[Mario_Delgado]

10 hours ago, Neily03 said:

That’s correct, just D when in drive.  If you put the gearbox into sport then it’s will show the gear, S1, S2…. etc. 

 

In addition, if you are driving on a custom driving profile, gear will be shown as M1, M2, M3. 

[TheUltraRunner]

1 hour ago, Mario_Delgado said:

 

In addition, if you are driving on a custom driving profile, gear will be shown as M1, M2, M3. 

Hmmm are you sure? M1 etc is shown only when you are driving in manual mode. And it's the same in all driving modes.

10 hours ago, shempy said:

I wish the gear change indicator was larger

We all wish that. 😁

[Mario_Delgado]

Yeah, you're right, I am using paddle shifters only when I am in individual, but M means Manual for sure.

[TheWanderer]

M + Nº - Manual Mode

D - Drive (Normal)

S + Nº - Sport Mode

R - Reverse 

N - Neutral 

 

Simples