What puzzles me is that it is said (on wikipedia) that Inrix use Classic FM and that Trafficmaster use  Global Radio -  Classic FM is part of the Global Radio group? 

First I was always taught at university to never trust the data on Wikipedia but to go to source. Someone has contacted Inrix and they say they are still broadcasting however did anybody ask them what car manufactures subscribe to their service?

Our contract (if we have one ) is with Skoda and they should be sorting this out or issuing a statement that the FM Radio service is no longer available to VAG cars. I would guess there is small print to get them out of responsibility. 

4 hours ago, NigelR99 said:

or issuing a statement that the FM Radio service is no longer available to VAG cars.

That would leave MIB1, MIB2 and MIB2.5 owners without traffic data on the inbuilt sat nav, not only is this unexpected loss of a service without prior notification to all owners but is also an environmental issue as that means we could end up in traffic jams causing extra pollution that could have been avoided if TMC was still available.

3 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

That would leave MIB1, MIB2 and MIB2.5 owners without traffic data on the inbuilt sat nav, not only is this unexpected loss of a service without prior notification to all owners but is also an environmental issue as that means we could end up in traffic jams causing extra pollution that could have been avoided if TMC was still available.

It leaves all of us with older RDS systems in the lurch.😡

6 hours ago, langers2k said:

 

There are two TMC providers in the UK:

- INRIX who broadcast via Classic FM

- Trafficmaster who broadcast on various local/regional stations

 

VAG use Trafficmaster for TMC over FM in the UK which has now been turned off. They haven't got the licence to use INRIX afaik...

 

VAG need to decide where they want to get TMC data from and then roll out an update to switch to it. This may involve paying INRIX for their service or switching to TMC/TPEG over DAB but it's down to VAG

 

Once they've decided, it might be possible via a map update to switch over but I'm not sure...

 

Good summary - some of the earlier posts were going a little off tangent. VAG clearly use Trafficmaster not INRIX, hence the recent problems being experienced by VAG owners. 

My Garmin stand alone sat nav, 1490T, uses Trafficmaster for traffic information, which does not now work, so there will also be a lot of disgruntled Garmin owners out there as well.

The problem with switching to INRIX is that the location tables (which specify through a 16 bit code precisely where on the road network an incident is located) are proprietary to each service provider. Trafficmaster on Capital/Heart uses (or used to use) location table 0x07 and INRIX on Classic uses 0x0A.

 

So unless I am mistaken (and both UK providers somehow used the same location identifiers, but gave their services different table identifiers) this makes the map data (which contains the mapping of location IDs to actual physical locations) totally incompatible. In fact it’s intentionally designed that way to prevent you switching providers without paying for the location table mappings of the new provider.

 

Therefore a map update is almost certainly required to switch providers, since original maps would have only included the location table for the provider originally contracted with at the time of production (ie. Trafficmaster 0x07).

 

I’ve debugged the data being received on another VAG platform (Audi’s RNSE system) and can confirm that although the TMC identifier for table 0x07 is still being transmitted on Capital and Heart, there are no actual TMC messages present. Classic on the other hand still has its 0x0A identifier AND has actual messages being broadcast.

 

I’m going to attempt a switch in the RNSE firmware to listen to the alternate table ID, but I’m 99.99% sure that the location IDs will be different and so this will ultimately prove fruitless (or at the very least result in totally garbled meaningless locations).

@pcbbc - this might not be too helpful for your RNSE but the MIB2 maps hint at GB INRIX support so it might include the location table for you?

 

Snippets from the latest Amundsen/Discover Media MIB2 map update.

 

maps\00\cfg\mapcfg\SKODA\traffic\tmc\TmcProviders\TmcProviders.xml

   <tmc_provider name="Trafficmaster" id="2">
      <encryption_method>light</encryption_method>
      <cc>GB</cc>
      <sid>7</sid>
      <ltn_transmitted>7</ltn_transmitted>
      <ltn_used>7</ltn_used>
   </tmc_provider>

   <tmc_provider name="Inrix" id="12">
      <encryption_method>light</encryption_method>
      <cc>GB</cc>
      <sid>55</sid>
      <ltn_transmitted>10</ltn_transmitted>
      <ltn_used>10</ltn_used>
   </tmc_provider>

 

maps\00\cfg\mapcfg\SKODA\traffic\tmc\TmcProviderSets\TmcProviderSets.xml

	<!-- VW TMCpro -->
	<!-- 32768 + 3 -->
	<tmc_provider_set id="32771" use_free_tmc="true"
		use_online_traffic="true">
		<provider_ref id="1" mode="non-exclusive" />
		<provider_ref id="2" mode="non-exclusive" />
		<provider_ref id="5" mode="non-exclusive" />
		<provider_ref id="12" mode="non-exclusive" />
	</tmc_provider_set>

 

The factory setting for IDE05111-Fee-based traffic information (TMC) is 32771 for me which suggests it should be using Trafficmaster with the option to fallback to INRIX.

 

The headunit certainly knows that Classic is a TMC source and seems to want location table 10 (0x0A):

 

Makes me wonder what's missing....

I have been to Solihull this morning from Leek (about 60 miles each way). On the way there the TMC symbol om my MMI3G Basic map view was active (not crossed out) for maybe three quarters of the way there. On the way back it was crossed out all the time. In both directions there were no messages about traffic either verbal or on the INFO button. Seems like the unit is trying to pick it up but no signal strength and maybe it is trying to pick up the Trafficmaster info which I believe is still broadcast on Capitol and Heart but minus any messages.

 

1 hour ago, langers2k said:

@pcbbc - this might not be too helpful for your RNSE but the MIB2 maps hint at GB INRIX support so it might include the location table for you?

 

The headunit certainly knows that Classic is a TMC source and seems to want location table 10 (0x0A):

 

Makes me wonder what's missing....

Thanks for that. I suppose certainly worth looking at the MIB2 maps a seeing if the location table is extractable.

 

For your unit looks like the SID (whatever that is) is incorrect. XML says 55 and GEM shows 10. Looks like SID is same as LTN, so I suppose it could be a mistake on the GEM display? But then also there’s the “sup” column. Supported perhaps? Maybe not supported because the SID is wrong?

 

 

Okay, from here…

https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/102600_102699/102668/01.01.01_60/ts_102668v010101p.pdf

 

SID = Service IDentifier (TMC)

Thought I would give this thread a little bump since lots of us are impacted and we have been trying various things for a number of weeks now.

 

Has anyone received a definitive response from Skoda that both acknowledges the problem and makes clear what they're going to do about it? E.g. firmware update, map update, etc.?

 

Personally I hit a dead end with Skoda and contacted a popular car mag instead. Unfortunately I've not had a response yet; I was hoping they might be interested if it is indeed impacting literally tens if not hundreds of thousands of UK vehicles. I may have to go back to Skoda UK and try again, which I really don't want to waste my time doing when they should take some ******* responsibility for this mess.

I have had a response from Skoda customer services directing me to the digital team covering Skoda Connect which advised further that if they could not help, then to contact my local dealership. Having already had no success through my local dealership, I have gone back to customer services to suggest they should be able to communicate how this was going to be resolved and that I was unclear how the team responsible for Skoda Connect could help as it wasn't an issue to do with Skoda Connect (I do not subscribe)

There was no recognition that this is a widespread problem and quite frankly the initial response was very disappointing when clearly they DO know that this is not an isolated problem. I am awaiting a further reply from customer services. 

Guess it depends how many folk use the inbuilt satnav along with TMC.

 

 

I always use Android Auto with Waze. Without threads like this, I would have never noticed that TMC was down so I'm only really following for mild curiosity...

 

14 minutes ago, langers2k said:

Guess it depends how many folk use the inbuilt satnav along with TMC.

 

 

I always use Android Auto with Waze. Without threads like this, I would have never noticed that TMC was down so I'm only really following for mild curiosity...

 

It's important to remember that it is illegal to even touch a mobile phone in the UK if the engine is running in your car. 

Also, FM reception (RDS TMC) is more reliable than 4G/5G especially in areas of poor mobile coverage.... in those places you are more likely to need a reliable working satnav system.

And there is no cost with RDS TMC FM. No data usage, no phone battery usage, no need to pair phone to car.

 

 

2 hours ago, NeilE02 said:

I have had a response from Skoda customer services directing me to the digital team covering Skoda Connect which advised further that if they could not help, then to contact my local dealership. Having already had no success through my local dealership, I have gone back to customer services to suggest they should be able to communicate how this was going to be resolved and that I was unclear how the team responsible for Skoda Connect could help as it wasn't an issue to do with Skoda Connect (I do not subscribe)

There was no recognition that this is a widespread problem and quite frankly the initial response was very disappointing when clearly they DO know that this is not an isolated problem. I am awaiting a further reply from customer services. 

I had a similar response from Audi Customer Services. They directed me to their digital team who of course did not deal with RDS issues and advised me to see a main dealer. I returned to Customer Services with the digital teams response explaining that it was not only my car that had the problem and was once again asked to go to a main dealer.😡

 

3 minutes ago, Arthur124 said:

It's important to remember that it is illegal to even touch a mobile phone in the UK if the engine is running in your car. 

Also, FM reception (RDS TMC) is more reliable than 4G/5G especially in areas of poor mobile coverage.... in those places you are more likely to need a reliable working satnav system.

And there is no cost with RDS TMC FM. No data usage, no phone battery usage, no need to pair phone to car.

 

 

I wonder if anyone has a VAG group car on which the TMC function still works as it should. Anyone who knows someone with a similar car could maybe ask the question. 

4 minutes ago, Arthur124 said:

It's important to remember that it is illegal to even touch a mobile phone in the UK if the engine is running in your car. 

 

Wrong...   It's illegal to hold and use a phone, sat nav, tablet, or any device that can send or receive data, while driving or riding a motorcycle. This means you must not use a device in your hand for any reason, whether online or offline. For example, you must not text, make calls, take photos or videos, or browse the web.

 

That is not the same as being illegal to touch a phone...   If the phone is in a holder and not ha d held then it is legal, although you can still be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention if appropriate. 

9 minutes ago, Arthur124 said:

It's important to remember that it is illegal to even touch a mobile phone in the UK if the engine is running in your car. 

Also, FM reception (RDS TMC) is more reliable than 4G/5G especially in areas of poor mobile coverage.... in those places you are more likely to need a reliable working satnav system.

And there is no cost with RDS TMC FM. No data usage, no phone battery usage, no need to pair phone to car.

 

 

I paid for a car with integrated satnav because it featured RDS-TMC, easy to update maps from the web etc etc. I didn't feel the need to enable SmartLink for £100-£150 to use Android Auto on my Skoda I was happy with what I paid for, I don't even have data on my phone! I use Android Auto on my wife's Toyota with offline Google maps and the number of times it looses the "blue" navigation line and needs a complete reinstall makes me realise what I had up to the start of March 2023 worked very well.  If Skoda won't get it working again will they enable SmartLink for free?   I am not a luddite but an ex IT security consultant who developed many Corporate WI-FI based systems over the years.   

1 hour ago, langers2k said:

Guess it depends how many folk use the inbuilt satnav along with TMC.

 

 

I always use Android Auto with Waze. Without threads like this, I would have never noticed that TMC was down so I'm only really following for mild curiosity...

 

 

Each to their own, but for me the inbuilt sat nav has a number of advantages, including:

 

- traffic info without the need for a data connection

- no issues downloading map data because it's all there on the SD card

- works anywhere in UK and abroad, even in low mobile signal areas

- car GPS is more reliable than mobile GPS, particularly when amongst tall buildings in the city

- doesn't have a panic attack in long tunnels with no mobile signal or GPS

- integration with driver's display screen behind steering wheel

- free map updates from Skoda... ok phone map apps have this too but some with quite questionable accuracy because they rely on users to update them

Did get a reply from Skoda auto support saying that they have received numerous emails re this issue. Said they would pass onto relevant department which means they will do nothing. My local Skoda dealers RRG and Lookers are hiding behind their phones.

8 hours ago, NigelR99 said:

I paid for a car with integrated satnav because it featured RDS-TMC, easy to update maps from the web etc etc. I didn't feel the need to enable SmartLink for £100-£150 to use Android Auto on my Skoda I was happy with what I paid for, I don't even have data on my phone! I use Android Auto on my wife's Toyota with offline Google maps and the number of times it looses the "blue" navigation line and needs a complete reinstall makes me realise what I had up to the start of March 2023 worked very well.  If Skoda won't get it working again will they enable SmartLink for free?   I am not a luddite but an ex IT security consultant who developed many Corporate WI-FI based systems over the years.   

Absolutely spot on Nigel. Many of us with RDS-TMC don't have the option of switching to Smartlink or Audi Connect etc as the MMI's do not support it. I do not want to go back to Tom Tom or similar and do not own a smart phone so the RDS-TMC was very useful for me especially on long trips.

7 hours ago, joek666 said:

 

Each to their own, but for me the inbuilt sat nav has a number of advantages, including:

 

- traffic info without the need for a data connection

- no issues downloading map data because it's all there on the SD card

- works anywhere in UK and abroad, even in low mobile signal areas

- car GPS is more reliable than mobile GPS, particularly when amongst tall buildings in the city

- doesn't have a panic attack in long tunnels with no mobile signal or GPS

- integration with driver's display screen behind steering wheel

- free map updates from Skoda... ok phone map apps have this too but some with quite questionable accuracy because they rely on users to update them

100% agree with you. I do not want to go back to Tom Tom or similar and do not even own a smart phone.

Sent this to Audi this morning. Will post any response I get.

 

Dear Mr Panagiotis. 

                                  I realise that my issue is not a digital one and that Audi do not own the TMC system. Audi do/did pay for use of this system but it seems that the supplier of the system has now changed. The current supplier INRIX say that their system has been checked and is working just fine sending all the information the previous system did and that the problem lies with receivers in the cars. There are several discussions on internet forums about this problem and it seems that the previous system was funded by the motor manufacturers using it with collective lifetime licences for their cars. These included VAG group along with Honda and others. I do not know if these licenses have been renewed with INRIX but I do know that my car and many others no longer receive the RDS-TMC information they send over Classic FM etc. This could be due to different location tables being used that the head units do not recognise and maybe new Firmware or maps could be needed that work with these tables. Now I understand that your department may not directly deal with these issues but surely someone at VAG must know what is going on and I would ask that you forward this information to them. It is pointless taking my car for a diagnostic check because several other owners of VAG cars have done so only to be told there are no faults and the dealers do not know how to fix the problem. I have included the links to a couple of the forums below so that you can see for yourselves the frustration that the lack of RDS-TMC is causing at the moment.

 

www.reddit.com/r/CarTalkUK/comments/132nuvb/tmc_traffic_message_channel_completely_stopped/

 

 

www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/512443-tmc-traffic-events-no-longer-being-receivedfirmware-update-required/

 

Kind regards - Neil.

Good shout, although the issue here is that VAG didn't/don't use INRIX, they had a separate contract/subscription with Trafficmaster who have ceased transmission of data.  What I would be asking is, were VAG aware of this turnoff (given that they would have had a contract with Trafficmaster one would think so) and why haven't they advised customers of the change?  

15 minutes ago, Mattnam said:

Good shout, although the issue here is that VAG didn't/don't use INRIX, they had a separate contract/subscription with Trafficmaster who have ceased transmission of data.  What I would be asking is, were VAG aware of this turnoff (given that they would have had a contract with Trafficmaster one would think so) and why haven't they advised customers of the change?  

Yes I did mention that the supplier has changed.