TMC traffic events no longer being received...firmware update required?

[Tell]

Probably like water, the Government lets the infrastructure go to pot. Nanny state can't be rules based etc. Ofcom spent a time preoccupied with selling off C4, political mission rather than good Government of society. Porn is the latest Ofcom mission but Mps like end to end encryption of their own messages, out of public statuary records but don't known about VPNs. Civil servants pander to their missions. Evident TMC wasn't one. 🤔

[Hillbilly23]

4 hours ago, NigelR99 said:

In 2011 the Government were aware of  the consequence of loosing RDS-TMC over FM Radio in the document attached. 

 They said "Were the majority of FM stations to broadcast only on DAB today, these millions of navigation units would stop receiving traffic information. The navigation system would still work but would no longer know of congestion, accidents, road works, or other traffic events. Drivers would be less well-informed, and, not knowing of traffic problems, would join, and compound, queues."  This requirement to supply traffic information to motorists appears to be the result of a EU directive presumably cast aside after Brexit however the Government saw a need, They tendered for companies to supply the FM RDS-TMC service in the UK and car manufactures paid for a licence. (I don't know if this is the same process in Europe )  FM-Radio is still with us and the move to DAB wasn't completed so the hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of VAG and other cars that are still on the road and will be contributing to the clogging up of the road infrastructure by the inability of the sat nav systems to reroute and miss the traffic jam.  Has there been an increase in traffic jams since April 2023?   Has anybody contacted their MP about this, after all the system in the UK  was requested by the Government so that drivers could be informed about traffic and avoid congestion and pollution, the need is still there.   

Just a thought.........

 

Traffic_and_Travel_Report_1_.pdf 245.7 kB · 1 download

Just sent this to my local Tory MP Karen Bradley.

 

Dear Karen.

                      As my local MP I wondered if you could assist in any way with this matter. There used to be two providers of RDS-TMC traffic information for the UK. They were Trafficmaster which used to send information via FM radio stations such as Heart and Capitol with the other being INRIX which still sends information via Classic FM. This is a very useful service for motorists as even vehicles that receive on line traffic information can use the RDS-TMC service in areas of poor reception.

                       Trafficmaster closed down their service at the end of March this year. They supplied Traffic information to vehicle owners of the VW Group, Honda and many more manufacturers. This means that the system commonly called Dynamic Navigation no longer informs drivers of traffic hold ups, road works or accidents etc. As the system no longer works it does not suggest another route to the driver avoiding these incidents which can only lead to longer journey times and of course more emissions from the engines.

                         I own an Audi A6 and along with many others have been told by VAG Group that they have no plans to either reinstate the Trafficmaster service or to switch to the still operative INRIX service which I believe will be providing the data for at least another eight years. I find this decision to be very poor both in terms of customer relations and of course the environmental issues it is certain to cause.

                         I have added a link to an internet forum used by Skoda owners (part of the VAG Group) where you will observe the problem being discussed by many Skoda and owners of other makes of car which are affected by the Trafficmaster shutdown. The problem is also discussed on other forums but this one is the most in depth and populated by lots of unhappy owners who feel their needs are now being completely ignored by the various manufacturers whose vehicles are affected.

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/512443-tmc-traffic-events-no-longer-being-receivedfirmware-update-required/

[Arthur124]

   ........  perhaps send same or cc to the Transport Minister  Mark Harper ?

[lfc84]

As if they will understand. It will go right over their heads

Just now, lfc84 said:

As if they will understand. It will go right over their heads

Nor will they care and just say it's a commercial decision 

[Tell]

On 09/06/2023 at 10:32, pcbbc said:

For MIB2 High…

Replace 15 with 14

Replace 32783 with 32782

Yes, you will lose some services abroad when in Finland or Hungary. Of course you can code back to your original value if you ever visit there.

 

For reference the TMC json configuration file for MIB2 are in the Mib2\NavDB\mapStyles_eu\0\default\x\navigation_styles_XX_EU.iso and look in folder Ti for file paytmc.json

Good stuff. As you say you lose Hungary and Finland but other than that all will be good.

 

Interesting file. That's how the fly by night retrofitters get it wrong when they set the unit up for the wrong TMC group. Happened to Seat in the past when I was asked to check what my factory fitted one was set at for someone installing a retrofit mib2 high after retrofitters had done the navigation FeCs but had sent the unit back with TMC not configured. From a working unit with old maps with TMC to new maps but no TMC. I was putting off looking at it again. 

 

I wonder what the relative difference are of the two providers, the defunct one and the non defunct one. The defunct one wasn't very timely. Roads into Fishguard port remained closed for about two months which wasn't true on that one.

 

There is a bit at launch:

 

https://citywire.com/funds-insider/news/itis-trafficmasters-smaller-rival-comes-to-market/a212878

 

or

 

https://www.telecompaper.com/news/itis-disputes-results-of-trafficmaster-accuracy-survey--433666

 

Depends whether they are buying into traffic data which there seems to be a market in these days. Their fleet of sensor vehicles seemed to be large.

Edited 10 June, 2023 by Tell

[NigelR99]

49 minutes ago, lfc84 said:

As if they will understand. It will go right over their heads

Nor will they care and just say it's a commercial decision 

As far as VAG are concerned it is a commercial decision,  for society it is more air pollution, traffic jams etc.

[Tell]

Think it's self-help on the technology for a solution other than that it's hitting your head on a brick wall. They have made their decision and won't change it now.

[pcbbc]

18 minutes ago, Tell said:

I wonder what the relative difference are of the two providers, the defunct one and the non defunct one.

From what I’ve seen the INRIX database is about twice the size of the Trafficmaster one, and contains a significant number of B roads.  My feeling is their service is probably far superior.

 

INRIX have also been broadcasting a TMC TPEG service on DAB since 2010. I don’t believe Trafficmaster ever progressed beyond FM. Although whether the MIB2H platform is capable of receiving TMC TPEG over DAB is anyone’s guess.

[J.R.]

First world problem (the unhappy owners who feel their needs are now being completely ignored)

 

I can't imagine many MP's getting excited about it.

[Tell]

Only if there is a vote in it for them which there wont be.

[joek666]

4 hours ago, NigelR99 said:

As far as VAG are concerned it is a commercial decision,  for society it is more air pollution, traffic jams etc.

 

Just like dieselgate. They justify it for as long as they can get away with it. The lack of learning at a corporate level is astounding. 

[joek666]

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

First world problem (the unhappy owners who feel their needs are now being completely ignored)

 

I can't imagine many MP's getting excited about it.

 

I don't think it's a 'first world problem'. Most governments would want to reduce traffic jams and as a by-product, net emissions. In fact, developing countries are predicted to be the worst impacted by the effects of climate change. 

[Hillbilly23]

1 minute ago, joek666 said:

 

Just like dieselgate. They justify it for as long as they can get away with it. The lack of learning at a corporate level is astounding. 

They will do nothing until it is more widely known about. The only way that will happen is if us on here keep trying to get it into the news.

[Tell]

Don't reckon German VAG will be helping out little old Britain get their TMC back.... forgot Global Britain 🤔. Third world countries that arent so third world probably still have their TMC. As Dean0 pointed out on the Seat board TMC was an EU directive for countries to provide in the EU that one probably got burnt in Moggies bonfire.

 

You are onto self help now as I said. VAG won't touch it now since it's one of those things they let go with legacy systems. User POI import on the VW side soon bit the dust when Mib3 came out. Skoda one never worked correctly. You got poinspect0r and other DIY solutions when VAG pulled the plug on that one.

[John1701]

3 hours ago, Tell said:

Don't reckon German VAG will be helping out little old Britain get their TMC back.... forgot Global Britain 🤔. Third world countries that arent so third world probably still have their TMC. As Dean0 pointed out on the Seat board TMC was an EU directive for countries to provide in the EU that one probably got burnt in Moggies bonfire.

 

You are onto self help now as I said. VAG won't touch it now since it's one of those things they let go with legacy systems. User POI import on the VW side soon bit the dust when Mib3 came out. Skoda one never worked correctly. You got poinspect0r and other DIY solutions when VAG pulled the plug on that one.

Although I am not doubting you and past track record has shown VAG quick to abandon  maps for units , the UK market is a big one for them and as all rules are still in place VAG (if they still wish to sell goods and services in the UK) are still obliged by the rules.

They can however get out of provision for any pre MIB3 unit by stating third party broke thr service and the units impacted fall into obsolescence.

[Tell]

3 minutes ago, John1701 said:

Although I am not doubting you and past track record has shown VAG quick to abandon  maps for units , the UK market is a big one for them and as all rules are still in place VAG (if they still wish to sell goods and services in the UK) are still obliged by the rules.

They can however get out of provision for any pre MIB3 unit by stating third party broke thr service and the units impacted fall into obsolescence.

The latter which it is. The service collapsed which was being offered across brands.

 

The new pricing model for mib3 is to sell connect services through 4g, the Traffic data on an annual subscription whilst the old model was to cross subsidise it via car sales. I was trying to determine whether mib3 also allowed tmc as well. If it does and dependent on whether the infotainment unit can be accessed via coding then the pcbbc solution may exit for that. It could be that, that has collapsed. Step forward mib3 users as to whether there online data has stopped as well.

[David55]

Mib2.5 has the option to subscribe to connected services and receive the traffic updates. It is annoying that TMC has stopped it was a good back up and on older systems pretty  essential but it has not made all MIB 2.5 units obsolete just reliant on subscription services . 

[John1701]

3 minutes ago, David55 said:

Mib2.5 has the option to subscribe to connected services and receive the traffic updates. It is annoying that TMC has stopped it was a good back up and on older systems pretty  essential but it has not made all MIB 2.5 units obsolete just reliant on subscription services . 

Very true. And this will be a good money earner for VAG (and Skoda) for owners to continue subscribing whereas before with TMC some people may not have subscribed.

[Tell]

33 minutes ago, David55 said:

Mib2.5 has the option to subscribe to connected services and receive the traffic updates. It is annoying that TMC has stopped it was a good back up and on older systems pretty  essential but it has not made all MIB 2.5 units obsolete just reliant on subscription services . 

I believe you just do the pcbbc one if your unit is a Columbus 2.5 and don't want to take out a subscription.

 

 

Namely you make the change:

 

32783 is online traffic permitted + Trafficmaster RDS TMC
32782 is online traffic permitted + ITIS/INRIX RDS TMC

15 is no online traffic, Trafficmaster RDS TMC
14 is no online traffic, ITIS/INRIX RDS TMC

 

2.5 Columbus will be like the TT 32782 to get it working again. The latter line above is for Columbus Mib 2.0. Ie. Mib2 only

 

You just search for tmc in your Adaptions in the 5f unit least in Obdeleven and see what it's set at. VCDS Will be the same. Will currently be 15 or 32783. Do the change and reboot the unit. Simple.

 

Edited 11 June, 2023 by Tell
wording

[joek666]

5 hours ago, David55 said:

Mib2.5 has the option to subscribe to connected services and receive the traffic updates. It is annoying that TMC has stopped it was a good back up and on older systems pretty  essential but it has not made all MIB 2.5 units obsolete just reliant on subscription services . 

 

Does every MIB2.5 unit come with a built in data connection or at least a slot for a SIM card? My Amundsen MIB2 does not have either, so although I can subscribe to 'Connect' services, I cannot really 'connect'. Mobile hotspot tethering is more trouble than it's worth. 

[David55]

25 minutes ago, joek666 said:

 

Does every MIB2.5 unit come with a built in data connection or at least a slot for a SIM card? My Amundsen MIB2 does not have either, so although I can subscribe to 'Connect' services, I cannot really 'connect'. Mobile hotspot tethering is more trouble than it's worth. 

mine has a sim slot and car has esim. I think the esim runs the connected services 

[David55]

I have not tried the suggested adaption to change from traffic master to inrix /itis tam rds has anyone done this successfully 

[pcbbc]

2 minutes ago, David55 said:

I have not tried the suggested adaption to change from traffic master to inrix /itis tam rds has anyone done this successfully 

Yes. See…

 

[Tell]

If its a Columbus mib2 / 2.5 it's the above following pcbbc research. You'll know what to put in the tmc field by what's already in it. Then you take one of the two routes.

 

Namely you make the change:

 

32783 is online traffic permitted + Trafficmaster RDS TMC
32782 is online traffic permitted + ITIS/INRIX RDS TMC

15 is no online traffic, Trafficmaster RDS TMC
14 is no online traffic, ITIS/INRIX RDS TMC

 

(It's so easy with Obdeleven Pro / VCDS coding tool)

 

If its an Amundsen mib2 wait for those instructions to appear on here.

[Tell]

Technical note on mib2 high for people that trip into here the tables in this post below cover why other posts elsewhere on the net don't get it to work historically on UK Traffic Master (doesn't work now in anycase) - they were trying the wrong codes. Mr Bonk et all are the enthuast source of all things mib2 high. It covers all TMC codes across the world. For the UK the mib2 high ones are the ones posted above for the alternative service still transmitting.

 

https://github.com/Mr-MIBonk/M.I.B._More-Incredible-Bash/discussions/69