1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[monkeyalan]

Tricky decision to make, yes the number of failures is small given the number out there - but if you are the unlucky person that is left holding the baby - it is a very expensive time for you.

There was obviously a design issue there as they have changed the design twice that is known about - it isn't clear either if the latest design has completely fixed the issue.

Damn shame that they didn't design the 2.0T as a non-intrusive design like on my Wife's MX-5 - if her cambelt fails it just dies - doesn't lunch the engine.

I can only guess that a non intrusive design was prohibitively expensive or came with other risks to the business. Who knows. I'm no engineer!

I think it would be in my interest to extend the warranty despite the cost though as I really don't want the £6k bill. Or even a £3k bill if Skoda will go 50/50 on it. I'll still need to think about what happens in 2017 when my Skoda warranty options dry up. I plan to keep the car as long as it will run if possible. I can cope with all the other associated costs but engine failure...no!

[JB-)]

Quick update on failures I'm aware of so far. I've only looked at Octavia's and Golf's since they're similar. We're aware that there have also been quite a lot of failures on Tiguan's.

 

[Abarth Moose]

With all this in mind and the fact that mine is out o warranty next year would it be a good idea to extend the Skoda warranty for another couple I years? It's about £500 for the extension but might provide some peace of mind. Not sure what happens a further two years down the line though as Sloda don't appear to extend beyond that. I'd rather fork out £500 than £6K in the unlikely event that my chain fails.

I think if I were in your boat now, then I would. (un)luckily, I now have 2 year warranty on my engine

[07 vRS Taxi]

I've heard of a few TSI's (CCZA) needing piston rings latley.

[lozparry]

Quick update on failures I'm aware of so far. I've only looked at Octavia's and Golf's since they're similar. We're aware that there have also been quite a lot of failures on Tiguan's.

 

 

I am following this thread with obvious interest! My car is nearly 4 years old and done 35K so far, its out of warranty and I have just had the 4 year service done by a VAG independent specialist. It has also been modified and been running a stage 1 remap for nearly 3 years. So should anything happen to the engine I'd fight a uphill battle getting any goodwill from Skoda?

Whilst the above table has the basic details, I think it needs more stats (cars servicing schedule, age at time of failure, engine ser No, modified or not... ) to see any specific trend. 

 

I know that it will be hard to get the total number of failures against the actual number of cars sold out there with this engine, but has any other straw polls been done on other forums out there?

 

Given the costs, I think I will look at extended warranties as I foresee me having the car for at least another year. 

[JB-)]

I am following this thread with obvious interest! My car is nearly 4 years old and done 35K so far, its out of warranty and I have just had the 4 year service done by a VAG independent specialist. It has also been modified and been running a stage 1 remap for nearly 3 years. So should anything happen to the engine I'd fight a uphill battle getting any goodwill from Skoda?

Whilst the above table has the basic details, I think it needs more stats (cars servicing schedule, age at time of failure, engine ser No, modified or not... ) to see any specific trend. 

 

I know that it will be hard to get the total number of failures against the actual number of cars sold out there with this engine, but has any other straw polls been done on other forums out there?

 

Given the costs, I think I will look at extended warranties as I foresee me having the car for at least another year. 

 

 

You'll be luck to get a warranty that will cover a modified engine. As for the extra stats, it's not easy to obtain. All you've got is what people say on forums. Age is irrelevant though, all of them were no more than around 4 years old. Links to each case below if anyone wants a read. You'll find that most people claim that the car was serviced to the letter, never abused etc etc.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/254274-09-vrs-ltd-edition-20-tsi-engine-gone-bang/page__st__180#entry3095017

http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/456065.aspx

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-octavia-ii-tsi-engine-failures/#entry3165568

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/253954-argh-dead-engine/

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/265589-worth-replacing-chain-tensioner-in-a-59-vrs-20-tsi-as-precaution/page__st__90#entry3158367

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266080-vrs-timing-belt-fail/

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/265589-worth-replacing-chain-tensioner-in-a-59-vrs-20-tsi-as-precaution/page__st__90#entry3158162

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/254274-09-vrs-ltd-edition-20-tsi-engine-gone-bang/

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-octavia-ii-tsi-engine-failures/page-3#entry3370821

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-octavia-ii-tsi-engine-failures/page-4#entry3392117

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46284

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/254274-09-vrs-ltd-edition-20-tsi-engine-gone-bang/page__st__90#entry3053987

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43512

http://www.vwgticlub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11627&start=10

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34332

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/231688-vrs-timing-chain-snapped-at-less-than-70k-miles/page__st__30#entry2762313

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/248095-timing-jump-nightmare-can-anyone-help/

http://www.vwgticlub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?p=117611

http://www.vwgticlub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11627&sid=b3413bb4dac8f0995463658708c904b2

http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/456065.aspx

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-links-to-members-reports-of-octavia-ii-tsi-engine-failures/#entry3143304

http://www.vwgticlub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?p=117611

 

 

Some further discussion on this topic here http://golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53883

Edited 24 August, 2013 by JB-)

[lozparry]

Cheers JB, and sorry I was not been submissive of the thread/stats, maybe I should have looked a bit more as I know there has been other threads too. 

[NIGELD]

Great fan of Octavia VRS over the years (13 years of ownership)

BUT  

Another one to add to the list: - 

Octavia VRS 2.0 purchased  new November 2009

Engine failed to start last Saturday

47,337 miles 

Dealer serviced

Email sent to dealer this evening

Will keep you informed of progress

Will sue under Sale of Goods act.

Appalled I was not warned of possibility of failure when vehicle serviced in November 2012 at 38773 miles.

Keep up the good work

[MaZvRSTSI]

It seems there were alot of 2009 and 2010 engines that went pop....Seems like to me that Rev 1 of the cam chain tensioner was crap.....like i have said earlier in this thread and in others. Looking at the service history of mine the light came on at several occasions and eventually the engine went bang....Engine changed with a late 2012 engine....real shame that VAG showed no care.....

[NIGELD]

I did not have the luxury of any warning lights;- one night okay, next morning destroyed.

 

My other car is a 43 year old lotus elan with an external timing chain adjuster...........progress!?

[JB-)]

So, taking one model year, so far I know of nine people who have posted on here about their 2009 Octavia failing on start up. Does anyone know how many petrol vRS' Skoda sell each year? Looking on http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/ I reckon it's around 500 per year, although it's not that easy to work out.

 

So, assuming sales of 500, if we estimate that even a quarter of the people this has happened to have ended up taking about it on here, that gives 36 total failures. At estimated sales of 500 vRS' in 2009, that means over 7% of engines have failed. If only 10% of people have posted here, that means an 18% failure rate, which gets more worrying.

[m0bov]

Maybe we all need to contact skoda and motoring press???

[neil_f]

Saw on watchdog last week about an issue with the steering on mini's which bmw denied was a known fault. Sounds like everyone who's had the failure should contact watchdog and motoring press to make it public. I know I certainly would if it happens to mine. I have a late 2010 model and it will be out of warranty end of November so hope this failure doesn't happen to mine.

[JB-)]

I have a late 2010 model and it will be out of warranty end of November so hope this failure doesn't happen to mine.

 

Yours shouldn't be the original tensioner design at least, which changed from May 2010. Although later designs have failed, it does seem to be mostly the earliest ones that are failing. As you would expect I suppose.

Edited 28 September, 2013 by JB-)

[NIGELD]

Having located the existence of TPI 2024485/5 for my dealer who said it did not exist (!), they are now saying it does not relate to my VIN despite my vehicle being a 2009 TSI vrs dsg, Eng. CCZA, Model 1Z35SC.  

 

Can anyone help me to go further in pushing them to use this TPI to look for the tensioner fault before doing anything else?  

 

I am struggling to trust them as they say the TPI (if it exists) does not apply, they will not follow its procedure and they will not allow me or an independent  mechanic to witness their investigation.

 

Is there anyone that can access a legitimate copy of ELSA and prove that the TPI does relate to the model above.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

[sdwilliams72]

One question...

 

Is there any link to DSG vs Manual models in this?

 

Steve

[Gti Jazz Blue]

Ask them if you can test the Tensioner - you shouldn't be able to push the piston against the ratchet mechanism - if you can then it is the tensioner that has failed. Have you any legal cover with any of your insurances - that may be another route to take.

[DGW]

Is there anyone that can access a legitimate copy of ELSA and prove that the TPI does relate to the model above.

You could sign up to erWIN for 1 hour which would be long enough to access any TPIs which apply to your car.

https://erwin.skoda-auto.cz/erwin/showTermsOfBusiness.do

[NIGELD]

Thanks to all who have offered assistance, all of the comments are valuable as it seems likely this problem is going to affect more people as time goes on and they will need as much help as they can get.

 

Regarding the suggestions above:-

 

I am not aware of this fault being limited to DSG or manual models, I suspect given that it is the timing chain tensioner that fails it would not make any difference what the transmission is.

 

I have tried erWin, wasted about 18 euros before I found out that it only works under IE 8, it will take your money if you use a later version but will not allow you to access the data (but it won't tell you why and VAG will not consider a refund).

 

Once you do access the data it, seems you can only search with a VIN, and, it is true the TPI does not show up.  I understand that on ELSA one can search without a VIN but using the make, model, year and gearbox type, then, it does show up!  I do not want to use a 'pirate' version of ELSA as I am trying to do everything honestly for the benefit of future victims.

 

I have not yet allowed them to have the vehicle yet, but they have told me If I do let them have it they will not allow me access to their workshops to; apply the 'push back' test and they will not follow the TPI and carry out the test themselves.  Worth saying here that the RAC that came out to my vehicle have already diagnosed the fault as complete loss of compression.  I rebuild Lotus Elans as a hobby(!) so I am not completely ignorant myself of things mechanical, however I do not want to lay a finger on the car myself as I suspect this will provide them a way to duck out of their responsibilities.

 

I have not as yet explored any legal advice as I am trying to resolve this without recourse to the courts so I have not checked my insurance for legal cover that would apply to this situation, but thank you for the thought.

 

If anyone knows a dealer who is prepared to publish at least the step by step method to search ELSA  without the VIN and thus access the TPI it would be a great benefit to all of us as I have spent 10 days and 10 long emails to get this far, which is pretty much nowhere.

 

I will keep posting any progress I make and thank you all again.

[DanSej6]

Having located the existence of TPI 2024485/5 for my dealer who said it did not exist (!), they are now saying it does not relate to my VIN despite my vehicle being a 2009 TSI vrs dsg, Eng. CCZA, Model 1Z35SC.  

 

Can anyone help me to go further in pushing them to use this TPI to look for the tensioner fault before doing anything else?  

 

It may well be the case that it's a brand specific TPI, and thus Skoda can't see it.

I know on the older BWA engines there is a fuel pressure sensor with a certain part number that fails. Skoda can't see the TPI, but VW and Audi can. Wether it's because it doesn't affect as many Skodas, or it's just an oversight by the powers that be I don't know.

[NIGELD]

Hi DanSej6,

 

Thanks for your welcome interest.

 

I am informed that the TPI (2024485/5,  does show up in ELSA under 'Skoda' with the following search parameters:-

 

Make = 'Skoda',    Year = '2010',    Model = '1Z35SC',    Engine = 'CCZA',    Gearbox = 'LQZ'

 

I am trying to obtain confirmation of this from a genuine licensed user of ELSA rather than the possibly pirated copies of ELSAWIN that others have accessed on the internet.

 

I will not go any where near 'unoficial' as I may have to go down the Sale of Goods Act  route.

 

Is there anyone out there who can contribute information into the 'pot'

 

[m0bov]

Has anyone gone to the press over this yet?

[snorbans]

Another one!

 

Octavia vRS TSI DSG Estate 59 plate, 3 years 11 months since new, 36500 miles.

 

Failed to start, with very expensive engine noise.  Checked with Briskoda to find this thread - a great help - thanks to all. Phoned SUK, advised to transport to local dealer, Citygate Watford.  Suggested possible cause which they eventually corroborated. Citygate very helpful, provided courtesy car (Superb), but slight ****-up between Citygate and SUK (who checked service history and proof of fault) so it took a month in all, but now running with new engine (plus 4 year service and MOT).  

 

Mention of SOGA works wonders: original SUK offer 45%, then 100% parts + 75% labour, eventually 100% as dealer and SUK split the odd 25% as "joint contribution". Not sure of final (retail) cost but probably about £5000.

 

I had feathered tyres replaced too, so I can't thank Briskoda and contributors enough!!

 

BTW the new engine must be registered with DVLA.

[NIGELD]

Encouraging news,

 

I am pleased to hear of your just result which seems to set a good precedent.

 

I have to decide whether I am prepared to trust the dealer to diagnose the fault honestly and properly, or maybe take it to an independent skoda technician to diagnose the fault and then take it to the dealer to confirm?

 

Any suggestion.

[NIGELD]

Hi snorbans,

 

I just read your post again (properly this time) and wonder if you would clarify who offered the suggestion as to what the fault was.

 

Am I correct in assuming it was a chain tensioner failure?

 

thanks