1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[rayx]

VW SSP 296 for FSI engines. I believe it explains clearly why almost all direct injection petrol engines must have dirty inlet valves,  indirect injection would only hide the effect of internal exhaust recirculation ...

SSP_296.pdf

 

Variable valve timing leads to:
- very effective inner exhaust gas recirculation, whereby combustion temperature and nitrogen oxides are reduced, and
- also improved torque development.

On FSI (=TFSI=TSI etc) engines, a high amount of exhaust gas recirculation is necessary to reduce nitrogen oxide emissions.

In order that the amount of exhaust gas can be pushed up to its limit, it has to be calculated precisely.

 

We know what the effect of EGR is on diesels, heavily loaded engine oil with PM particles and dirty EGR valve with intake channel and intake valves. Same negative results here on petrols. For CDAA and its siblings with bad design of piston oil control ring is this deadly combination ...

[rayx]

VW and others know about it long ...

 

A possible solution would be to keep these sources of deposits away, for example, from the intake valve, by completely eliminating exhaust gas recirculation and the introduction of blowby gases into the intake port. However, with the combustion behavior of modern reciprocating internal combustion engines, at least external exhaust gas recirculation and the introduction of blowby gases into the intake port are absolutely necessary for reasons of emission control and fuel consumption, so that this approach is not possible.

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US6866031

[kton200281]

On 01/08/2018 at 13:50, Jamesey said:

It will definitely need a cover as they bend trying to get them off .think there £65 trade from tps .

I didn't get the cover replaced, depends how careful the mechanic is taking it off - i had mine done 3 x years ago, no problems with just having the tensioner done

[streetfighter73]

I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice.l have a 2011 plate VRS TSI with a full Skoda service history.The car has done 100 thousand miles.I had a clatter noise on start up that lasted a couple of seconds on cold startups.l looked into this and found via internet sites that it could be the tensioner failing.l informed Skoda UK who suggested that I take it to the dealer for diagnostic tests.I videoed the noise and showed it the dealer and left with them for a week.When l dropped it off l showed the tech the video who agreed it could be a camchain tensioner issue.After a week l received a call saying they could not detect anything on the diagnostic and charged me 52 pounds.l mentioned about the clatter/rattle on the video to which they replied that they were not concerned by it and if it progresses to re book the car in .They also stated to fully check they would have to remove the engine which they did not think was nessarcery.On that advice which l have in writing l drove home.Thenoise did not progress but the tensioner failed last week and the car now needs a new engine.Skoda UK are currently looking into the matter but l was wondering on advice on where to go from here because if the garage had recommended me to change the tensioner when l took it in l would have got it changed.l have been completely wrongly advised by Skoda.Any help would be much appreciated.Ps l have already posted my own topic on this but thought l would add my issue to this topic as it is specific to my problem.

[TGP]

New engine fail to add to the list:

 

1.8tsi Skoda Octavia 2011 with 127,000km and near full service history (Australia).

Official diagnosis from Skoda is that oil scraper rings have failed resulting in complete engine rebuild. Also suspected turbo leak. $10,000 to fix.
 

Edited 31 August, 2018 by TGP

[rayx]

Another world, old Europe can be just jealous ...

 

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/846065-vw-will-reimburse-drivers-faulty-engine-class-action-settlement/

 

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/857448-volkswagen-timing-chain-class-action-settlement/

 

Edited 14 September, 2018 by rayx

[rayx]

 

 

 

[DunksVRS]

Hi,

 

New to the forum so would like to say hi and i am and have been a skoda only family without any complaints until this weekend. I am the proud owner of:

 

1 x 2011 Octavia II 2.0 TSI VRS - Bought new and serviced always through Skoda main dealers as per the variable servicing.

1 x 2016 Fabia

 

However, having now read through many of the posts on this forum and the article in the Guardian it would appear that i am now a victim of the cam tensioner issue. The wife had the octavia while i was away on business and drove the car absolutely fine last week, parked up outside the house, next day went out to start it and "it started rough, horrible noise etc" i got the car towed to my local garage as the Skoda main dealer is a good hour away and they have diagnosed it as a timing issue as: "at least one of your pistons has a inlet valve embedded in it" joy of joys!!! They are in the process of taking the rocker cover off to do further diagnostics.

 

I am after any advice on how to tackle Skoda and whether i go through my local main dealer in Swindon or go straight to main office. Has anyone had any success with claiming against skoda less the 50% gestures which i am not prepared to accept.

[xman]

This is happening with depressing regularity.

 

VAG should fess up and compensate. Isn't there a class action group somewhere?

 

I'm sure you'll get some guidance from the other members here.

 

Good luck

[DunksVRS]

1 hour ago, xman said:

This is happening with depressing regularity.

 

VAG should fess up and compensate. Isn't there a class action group somewhere?

 

I'm sure you'll get some guidance from the other members here.

 

Good luck

Yes there is its solely based in the US at the moment and only applies to VW and Audi at the moment.

 

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/857448-volkswagen-timing-chain-class-action-settlement/

 

[ZZR600]

In summary 2010 Skoda Yeti 1.8 TSI with very high oil consumption, almost 1.2 litres every 600 miles. 

 

The local Skoda garage diagnosed excessive oil consumption, the remedy being a replacement set of pistons, piston rings and con-rods (£3400) or worst case, full engine £5300. Skoda offered to cover 70% of costs as a good will gesture, bringing my bill down to £1010 as they needed to change the pistons and con-rods only.

 

However, I spoke to the dealer I bought it the car from and mentioned the Consumer Rights Act 2015, which makes it an implied term of the contract I had with them that goods be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality. I argued this wasn't the case and they agreed to pay £500 towards the cost, although in reality I think I would have been entitled for a full refund had I pursued this in court. 

 

I had also paid £300 deposit on the car by credit card, so the credit card company agreed to cover the remaining £600 or so under a Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 claim.

 

So all in all an OK result, but I would have preferred not to have the trouble in the first place. Oil consumption in the car is now fine, haven't topped it up in several 1000 miles since the repair.

 

Moral of the story? Buy from a dealer and pay deposit by credit card! (or don't buy Skoda!)

[Centipede]

I have had a very similar experience, with a 2013 Yeti 1.8 TSI.

Used about 2 litres of oil per 1,000 miles, and fresh oil became black very quickly.

Took my car into the dealer and after about a year and a half, with things getting worse, they eventually replaced the pistons, rings, con rods, and timing parts. Early on I complained directly to Skoda main office, and they seemed to keep reviewing the case and making sure the dealer got on with things (eventually).

Cost about the same as ZZR600, and Skoda paid 70% - again as a good will gesture. I had to pay a chunk of money, but also got my clutch done while the engine was out (I paid for this). Who knows what damage that amount of oil has done going through the engine ? - the cat converter for instance, as well as the impact of the contaminated oil on all of the systems.

 

The engine still uses a significant amount of oil, but now within Skoda's 'normal' limits. 

 

Nobody ever admitted what the fault was, and they also carried out a lot of time investigating the barrel wear. They also kept me almost completely in the dark as much as possible about their findings. I really became quite sick of the whole process and was glad to see the back of it all. The fault is completely consistent with the poor design of the oil scraper rings, which are so thin that the drainage holes are too small and are easily blocked.

 

Under English law, you only have redress from the place you bought it from - Skoda will quote this to you. English law also does not have a class action.

However, seems to me that Skoda have knowingly been selling faulty goods (their own internal systems acknowledged the problems), the goods they sold were not suitable for the purpose intended (cars have an expected, reasonable life of many years), and there is something called group litigation. I reckon that if anyone is annoyed enough, it may be worth seeking advice from a specialist lawyer.

 

I would personally never buy Skoda again. Apart from the engine problems, their main desire seemed to be to avoid any responsibility. They are extremely corporate and are following a set internal procedure. I am sure they are just keeping it all damped down, and doing the minimum, until the problem goes away.

[Josheep]

@DunksVRS here is the post about my experience which might help:

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/?do=findComment&comment=4671461

bests of luck

[DunksVRS]

On 20/09/2018 at 13:27, DunksVRS said:

Hi,

 

New to the forum so would like to say hi and i am and have been a skoda only family without any complaints until this weekend. I am the proud owner of:

 

1 x 2011 Octavia II 2.0 TSI VRS - Bought new and serviced always through Skoda main dealers as per the variable servicing.

1 x 2016 Fabia

 

However, having now read through many of the posts on this forum and the article in the Guardian it would appear that i am now a victim of the cam tensioner issue. The wife had the octavia while i was away on business and drove the car absolutely fine last week, parked up outside the house, next day went out to start it and "it started rough, horrible noise etc" i got the car towed to my local garage as the Skoda main dealer is a good hour away and they have diagnosed it as a timing issue as: "at least one of your pistons has a inlet valve embedded in it" joy of joys!!! They are in the process of taking the rocker cover off to do further diagnostics.

 

I am after any advice on how to tackle Skoda and whether i go through my local main dealer in Swindon or go straight to main office. Has anyone had any success with claiming against skoda less the 50% gestures which i am not prepared to accept.

 

UPDATE

 

So after much sucking of teeth Skoda have diagnosed the fault as the timing chain tensioners. Fish Brothers Skoda raised a goodwill claim to Skoda for a new engine fitted. Optimistic I know but we had to start somewhere! Within 24hrs Skoda 'customer care' phoned to inform me that they would not be prepared to contribute to the cost of the repair as the cost of the repair was the same as the value of the vehicle! I suggested that to keep me happy and to avoid any legal action they may want to offer me a new/approved used car with a part exchange. 

 

1st Offer:

 

Against a brand new Octavia Estate VRS

 

- £2159.60 - 8% dealers discount

- £2500.00 - current offer of contribution towards deposit

 

SKODA GOODWILL CONTRIBUTION £500 

Wow - thanks for your generosity and loyalty........NOT! So I politely declined their **** take offer and suggested that they start adding some zero's.

 

THE SAGA CONTINUES........

[Norco]

I fear I might have another to add to the list. Car parked up totally fine. Wife went to start yesterday morning and I get a phone call that the car won't start and a description of what happened that made my blood run cold.

 

Rattle, horrible noise and no start. 

 

Car is a 2010 DSG VRS with 56k on the clock. Bought at 2 years old from Skoda Grimsby and dealer serviced (DM Keith Hull) until the last service. Was on variable servicing when I got it but switched that to fixed. 

 

Being realistic, since we didn't buy from new and don't have another Skoda in the family I doubt there is the chance of any good will from SUK. Anyone had experience to say otherwise or thoughts? Maybe worth a phone call anyway.

 

I have recovery booked tomorrow to our local VAG specialist for diagnostic so will know more soon. I will try to update this thread with progress but it sounds like the specialist has seen a lot of these now (3 recently). I will ask them to take pics of progress too if anyone is interested.

 

 

[Norco]

On 21/09/2018 at 18:42, Josheep said:

@DunksVRS here is the post about my experience which might help:

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/?do=findComment&comment=4671461

bests of luck

 

@Josheep Any clues on anything that swung the decision in your favour? did you buy from new? Mine is a 10' plate so 8 years old now (but 56k miles). I wonder if anything to do with outstanding finance?

 

Don't hold up much hope for my case but will call tomorrow.

[Josheep]

51 minutes ago, Norco said:

 

@Josheep Any clues on anything that swung the decision in your favour? did you buy from new? Mine is a 10' plate so 8 years old now (but 56k miles). I wonder if anything to do with outstanding finance?

 

Don't hold up much hope for my case but will call tomorrow.

Hi Norco, I didn’t buy it from them I bought it from a ‘former dealership’ that was just a Skoda specialist now (so no real official connection) and it was already at 40,000ish miles (probably more like 60-70,000 as I had to replace the gear stick silver top bit as it was already worn out!). I had had maybe three services with the local Skoda dealership in total and the most recent had been a major service about 2,000 miles before. I had (and still haven’t finished paying) a loan for it from the bank not finance. It was 7 years old and really they didn’t owe me anything. I said that if it was the timing chain tensioner then there was nothing I could have done to prevent it and even in the major service they didn’t check or consider replacing it so it failed completely out of my control. I said that it was a common problem and that I couldn’t afford it and wouldn’t pay it. I also phoned Skoda uk and complained about it to them, maybe tell the garage to speak to Skoda uk and tell them it’s not fair for a part that’s meant to be for the life of the car and so vital to fail at low mileage and for such an excessive bill to land at the feet of their customer. It is a common failure and I think Skoda uk can okay the costs not the specific dealership. 

Best of luck mate and if you have any other questions I’m happy to try to answer them.

Josh

 

ps. I had it towed to the Skoda garage for them to diagnose it even though they said it would cost £200 or something like that not sure of that helped my case as they had it there and I wasn’t going to pay?

Edited 18 October, 2018 by Josheep

[Norco]

11 minutes ago, Josheep said:

Hi Norco, I didn’t buy it from them I bought it from a ‘former dealership’ that was just a Skoda specialist now (so no real official connection) and it was already at 40,000ish miles (probably more like 60-70,000 as I had to replace the gear stick silver top bit as it was already worn out!). I had had maybe three services with the local Skoda dealership in total and the most recent had been a major service about 2,000 miles before. I had (and still haven’t finished paying) a loan for it from the bank not finance. It was 7 years old and really they didn’t owe me anything. I said that if it was the timing chain tensioner then there was nothing I could have done to prevent it and even in the major service they didn’t check or consider replacing it so it failed completely out of my control. I said that it was a common problem and that I couldn’t afford it and wouldn’t pay it. I also phoned Skoda uk and complained about it to them, maybe tell the garage to speak to Skoda uk and tell them it’s not fair for a part that’s meant to be for the life of the car and so vital to fail at low mileage and for such an excessive bill to land at the feet of their customer. It is a common failure and I think Skoda uk can okay the costs not the specific dealership. 

Best of luck mate and if you have any other questions I’m happy to try to answer them.

Josh

 

ps. I had it towed to the Skoda garage for them to diagnose it even though they said it would cost £200 or something like that not sure of that helped my case as they had it there and I wasn’t going to pay?

Thanks for this @JosheepI think I'm going to go to. SUK direct with a call in the morning. 

[Josheep]

11 minutes ago, Norco said:

Thanks for this @JosheepI think I'm going to go to. SUK direct with a call in the morning. 

Good shout, possibly your best bet. It’s a common fault and insist that you wouldn’t expect it from a Renault why should you expect it from a VAG car! (I might have said about my Renault Megane doing 130,000 miles and my Ford Focus doing 140,000 miles yet my Skoda only making it to 60,000).

[DunksVRS]

14 hours ago, Norco said:

I fear I might have another to add to the list. Car parked up totally fine. Wife went to start yesterday morning and I get a phone call that the car won't start and a description of what happened that made my blood run cold.

 

Rattle, horrible noise and no start. 

 

Car is a 2010 DSG VRS with 56k on the clock. Bought at 2 years old from Skoda Grimsby and dealer serviced (DM Keith Hull) until the last service. Was on variable servicing when I got it but switched that to fixed. 

 

Being realistic, since we didn't buy from new and don't have another Skoda in the family I doubt there is the chance of any good will from SUK. Anyone had experience to say otherwise or thoughts? Maybe worth a phone call anyway.

 

I have recovery booked tomorrow to our local VAG specialist for diagnostic so will know more soon. I will try to update this thread with progress but it sounds like the specialist has seen a lot of these now (3 recently). I will ask them to take pics of progress too if anyone is interested.

 

 

Sounds like the exact same scenario for mine! I am still waiting for Skoda to get back to me, the dealer said that as i quite rightly rejected their not so generous offer they should be coming back to me! I am finding out that there are far too many people getting done over on this one. You need to be strong and threaten them with legal action. If i do not get the response i want i will be instructing my lawyer on the case.

[Norco]

Well just off the phone with SUK and they won't talk about the possibility of goodwill without it being diagnosed by a dealer. I think I've made a mistake here as its been recovered to a vag specialist for diagnosis. 

 

Once I know the extent of the damage I'll call D M Keith and see what they say. I don't want to pay another set of recovery and diagnosis costs if there is no chance of goodwill and then have to have it moved back to the specialist based on cost of repair at a main dealer. 

[streetfighter73]

We have had the same issue. The more Skoda owners that can email the Skoda CEOs executive office direct with the problem the better.

If you email particularly Rod Mcleod and FAO Gemma Gough as they both state there is no issue and won't take our evidence from the Briskoda forum because it is classed as 3rd party information. At the moment we have only been offered 20 % so called goodwill gesture and now filled out a claim against the Dealer that failed to diagnose the issue twice with the Motoring Ombudsman. Skoda should not be let off the hook.

[Ootohere]

Rod McLeod joined VW Group in 1996 and has had many roles with VW,  Maybe rolls as well.  wads of money, take the cash, keep the mouth shut./

the 2 UK Brand Directors before him have been with VW & Skoda and Bugatti, Porsche, Bentley etc and in Sales,.

After Sales, Warranties etc.

 

I would like to see Rod McLeod as a witness on behalf of VW / Skoda giving evidence they have no knowledge of Fundamental Design, Manufacturing or materials, components and software with Euro 5 1.8 & 2.0 TSI's.

Edited 19 October, 2018 by Offski

[edbostan]

My faith in VAG engines has been dented. It is appalling that today engines are so fragile. Give me a bombproof BMC series A engine anyday.

[magicpants]

I've been reading this post with interest as a potential vrs owner. Can anyone confirm when Skoda sorted this problem, is the issue with mk 2 engines?

Edited 19 October, 2018 by magicpants