1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[Ootohere]

VW Group are all about denial.   Lemons never happened, move on nothing to see here. 

  Engineers engineers with Doctor before their names, resign before arrested.

[rayx]

Tensioners are not an issue, VAG does not release their internal TPI to inform VAG service network, old style tensioners (part numbers 06H109467N,  06H109467T,  06H109467AB are safe enough till extended up to 8 teeth out ... Just bloody

 

The only new style tensioner 06K109467K is not reported to fail.

 

 

[Norco]

Update - Engine won't turn over so the head needs to come off. Looking at new valves. I have spoken to the guys at D M Keith in Hull who have serviced it (apart from the last service).

 

Had a good talk with the after sales manager Dale who understandably says hands are tied until they have seen it. It will be £250 for them to remove the head and see what we are dealing with but looking at £2k - £2500 for work to replace valves so really praying there isn't further damage. Since this is in the same ball park as where it currently is but with opportunity for the dealer to make the case for goodwill I think moving the car is the only option. 

 

Really don't know what the options will be if the damage is more extensive. New engine is £5k so not an option on an 8 year old car. Feeling pretty sick at them moment.

[Ootohere]

^^^ Really,  2 hours labour plus VAT to remove the head and look see.  Not even put it back together.     Ask again.

[Norco]

2 hours ago, Offski said:

^^^ Really,  2 hours labour plus VAT to remove the head and look see.  Not even put it back together.     Ask again.

 

I doubt that figure will come into it as if the work goes ahead then it will be bill under that labour cost. I've been told 3-3.5 hours work.

[Ootohere]

To remove the head?  Someone is having a giraffe and a lunch break while you are paying. 

 

Best maybe to get Dale the after sales manager to put the cost of the head removal in writing.

Having checked with the Master Tech.

[DunksVRS]

On 18/10/2018 at 10:40, DunksVRS said:

 

UPDATE

 

So after much sucking of teeth Skoda have diagnosed the fault as the timing chain tensioners. Fish Brothers Skoda raised a goodwill claim to Skoda for a new engine fitted. Optimistic I know but we had to start somewhere! Within 24hrs Skoda 'customer care' phoned to inform me that they would not be prepared to contribute to the cost of the repair as the cost of the repair was the same as the value of the vehicle! I suggested that to keep me happy and to avoid any legal action they may want to offer me a new/approved used car with a part exchange. 

 

1st Offer:

 

Against a brand new Octavia Estate VRS

 

- £2159.60 - 8% dealers discount

- £2500.00 - current offer of contribution towards deposit

 

SKODA GOODWILL CONTRIBUTION £500 

Wow - thanks for your generosity and loyalty........NOT! So I politely declined their **** take offer and suggested that they start adding some zero's.

 

THE SAGA CONTINUES........

 

So a not so polite phone call and follow up email results in £500 final offer....

 

I fully understand that you may remain dissatisfied with this response. As the dispute cannot be settled, we refer you to The Motor Ombudsman, a CTSI certified Alternative Dispute Resolution provider that we are prepared to engage with through the ADR procedure.  Please find their contact details below:

The Motor Ombudsman advice line: 0345 241 3008

Website: www.themotorombudsman.org

Address:

The Motor Ombudsman
71 Great Peter Street
London
SW1P 2BN

This decision has been reviewed by ŠKODA UK’s Executive Office and will not change. (My favourite bit!!!!)(Oh cocking really???)

Kind regards


Martin Bergan
Customer Relations Manager
ŠKODA UK | Selectapost 34 | Sheffield | S97 3FA
Tel:  0114 450 3309
[email protected] | www.skoda.co.uk | www.skoda-auto.com

 

So who is interested in getting together for a group litigation order as I am now 6k out of pocket???

[streetfighter73]

I would be interested as l am in the same boat.I received the same letter .

[DunksVRS]

4 hours ago, streetfighter73 said:

I would be interested as l am in the same boat.I received the same letter .

Have you complained to the motoring ombudsman? Is it worth it or is it better to go straight to litigation? 

[streetfighter73]

We are in the process of complaining at the moment but l believe you can only complain against the garage not Skoda UK as they are not on the Ombudsman website list .Our issue was a bit different as we had already raised a concern about an engine rattle on startup with the garage fearing it was cam chain tensioner related.They had the car a week said they were not concerned by the rattle.1 month later the tensioner failed .We Did go to Skoda UK but only got offered a 20% goodwill gesture.

The only way to go at the manufacturer is down the litigation route.

[DunksVRS]

1 hour ago, streetfighter73 said:

We are in the process of complaining at the moment but l believe you can only complain against the garage not Skoda UK as they are not on the Ombudsman website list .Our issue was a bit different as we had already raised a concern about an engine rattle on startup with the garage fearing it was cam chain tensioner related.They had the car a week said they were not concerned by the rattle.1 month later the tensioner failed .We Did go to Skoda UK but only got offered a 20% goodwill gesture.

The only way to go at the manufacturer is down the litigation route.

Ah ok so slightly different, you clearly have a case against the garage. I will be submitting my complaint to the motors ombudsman and if i get no joy then i will find a legal firm that fancies taking it on.

[streetfighter73]

If you go down the legal route l would be interested in joining a group litigation against Skoda UK for what is obviously a defective part from factory.

[edbostan]

On Fifth Gear last Thursday (Quest channel the new home for Fifth Gear) the Fabia VRS was reviewed along with Clio sport and Mini Cooper S as a cheap hot hatch to buy. It was said that the engine had problems and issues with piston rings and oil burning issues with CAVE engines so the warning advice is out there, Hasten to add the Clio Sport was best buy.

Edited 24 October, 2018 by edbostan

[Ootohere]

Did they correctly point out that the CAVE engine was from 2009-2012 and 2010-2012 in the Skoda then replaced by the CTHE 2012-2014, (only 1,800 CAVE Mk2 vRS in the UK.)

and not trouble free either.  over 25% failures with CAVE engines & less with the CTHE, around 1,100 CTHE Skoda in the UK,

and the same engines were in the Polo GTI, SEAT Ibiza Cupra & Audi A1 185 ps over the same years?

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/294051-cave-cthe-14tsi-just-reply-please-if-you-have-had-an-engine-replaced

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/288698-oil-usage-in-fabia-vrs

 

 

 

Edited 25 October, 2018 by Offski

[edbostan]

Don't think Vicki Butler-Henderson was so wised up on what was what. She only likes Mercs and BMs

[Ootohere]

None are too much, but then she has driven them before.

EVO had a journalist ask here and then they did a very good article with Briskoda members assistance.

*Just a pity Autocar / What Car / Pistonheads / Haymarket Media Group will never be critical of VW Group or ask the question of them about lemons they build.*

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/429231-mk2-fabia-vrs-buying-guide-in-evo-issue-235

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/426080-evo-magazine-buying-guide

 

 

VBH 4 years ago. 

& Johnny broke a few records using a Mk2 Fabia vRS.   

EDIT>   She or someone did their homework.  Probably read the EVO Buyers guide. Got the CAVE and CTHE bit, just wrong on the CTHE fixing things, early ones still not all OK and other issues with the timing chain tensioner.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 25 October, 2018 by Offski

[Nuclear_Jules]

Don’t know if my failure has been added to the total.

went to sparshatts in Botley for repair today they are going to have it all week.

new pistons, con rods, timing chain and tensioner.

Im hoping that will cure the oil consumption for good

[Norco]

45 minutes ago, Nuclear_Jules said:

Don’t know if my failure has been added to the total.

went to sparshatts in Botley for repair today they are going to have it all week.

new pistons, con rods, timing chain and tensioner.

Im hoping that will cure the oil consumption for good

I've had initial diagnosis of new valves and pistons on mine. Waiting to hear if SUK will help with this mess. If you dont mind me asking what kind of costs have you been quoted?

[Nuclear_Jules]

Being sorted during my3 month warranty period. Already had a new turbo costing £1000

[Norco]

9 hours ago, Nuclear_Jules said:

Being sorted during my3 month warranty period. Already had a new turbo costing £1000

 

So lucky its happened like that. Once you are through the pain of it all of course. 

[Norco]

Update:

 

Confirmed piston damage. Skoda UK have come back via the dealer and offered 15% goodwill. That would leave a bill of £4200 ish for a new engine. 

 

Called  a couple of engine re-builders I have found one that will strip, rebuild and replace valves, pistons and timing chain and tensioner kit for £1500 - £1600.

 

Seems to be the best approach though I am still waiting for a couple of quotes to come in. 

 

[Norco]

So to just give a final update:

 

Rang a couple of other garages and was recommended the Engine Repair Centre in Hull. Gave them a ring and spoke to owner and VAG specialist Dale. He was awake of the issue and explained that they do a lot of the dealer work on engine rebuilds and refurbishments and he quoted £900. Since I had been quoted prices ranging from £1500 (if I could take the engine out) up to £2.5k then I was pretty happy with the price.

 

They were manic busy (I am taking that as a good sign) and so there was a wait of about 2 weeks. I picked it up on Monday and while it might be a placebo I am sure it pulls better now. They did take pics of the damage which turned out to be only inlet valves - very slightly bent with and no piston damage (there was a shadow of the valve on the coking on the piston but when they showed me the after pictures you could see they were spotless). 

 

Final job sheet was:

Remove engine, recon cylinder head, replace all valves, refit with new head gasket and timing kit, tensioner, chain, cover, oil and filter

 

So happy to have the car back. I feel we may have got off lightly compared to some. I was firmly in the camp of there is no chance it would happen to me. It did and it could have cost me a lot more. If I could go back then I am still not sure I would have the new kit fitted as a preventative measure. That said its clear there are places you can get it done pretty cheaply so if you are in 2 minds then it might be worthwhile for the piece of mind.

 

Hopefully thats it for many more happy miles

N

 

[TheClient]

On 05/11/2018 at 16:06, Norco said:

Update:

 

Confirmed piston damage. Skoda UK have come back via the dealer and offered 15% goodwill. That would leave a bill of £4200 ish for a new engine. 

 

Called  a couple of engine re-builders I have found one that will strip, rebuild and replace valves, pistons and timing chain and tensioner kit for £1500 - £1600.

 

Seems to be the best approach though I am still waiting for a couple of quotes to come in. 

 

 

12 hours ago, Norco said:

So to just give a final update:

 

Rang a couple of other garages and was recommended the Engine Repair Centre in Hull. Gave them a ring and spoke to owner and VAG specialist Dale. He was awake of the issue and explained that they do a lot of the dealer work on engine rebuilds and refurbishments and he quoted £900. Since I had been quoted prices ranging from £1500 (if I could take the engine out) up to £2.5k then I was pretty happy with the price.

 

They were manic busy (I am taking that as a good sign) and so there was a wait of about 2 weeks. I picked it up on Monday and while it might be a placebo I am sure it pulls better now. They did take pics of the damage which turned out to be only inlet valves - very slightly bent with and no piston damage (there was a shadow of the valve on the coking on the piston but when they showed me the after pictures you could see they were spotless). 

 

Final job sheet was:

Remove engine, recon cylinder head, replace all valves, refit with new head gasket and timing kit, tensioner, chain, cover, oil and filter

 

So happy to have the car back. I feel we may have got off lightly compared to some. I was firmly in the camp of there is no chance it would happen to me. It did and it could have cost me a lot more. If I could go back then I am still not sure I would have the new kit fitted as a preventative measure. That said its clear there are places you can get it done pretty cheaply so if you are in 2 minds then it might be worthwhile for the piece of mind.

 

Hopefully thats it for many more happy miles

N

 

 

I'm not trying to be deliberately argumentative, just curious about the logic.  So you've got an early version car which had a very vulnerable and prone to failure tensioner, you believed it could not happen to you, it did, It could of cost you a new engine and indeed you were quoted same from Skoda for £4,200 plus, after a lot of searching you found a good repairer who managed to be significantly cheaper than others costing you £900 and another 2 weeks without the car. You also state it could of cost you a lot lot more (as it has others).

 

And you are not sure if you would get the tensioner replaced preventatively in hindsight?

 

[Norco]

42 minutes ago, TheClient said:

 

 

I'm not trying to be deliberately argumentative, just curious about the logic.  So you've got an early version car which had a very vulnerable and prone to failure tensioner, you believed it could not happen to you, it did, It could of cost you a new engine and indeed you were quoted same from Skoda for £4,200 plus, after a lot of searching you found a good repairer who managed to be significantly cheaper than others costing you £900 and another 2 weeks without the car. You also state it could of cost you a lot lot more (as it has others).

 

And you are not sure if you would get the tensioner replaced preventatively in hindsight?

 

 

You've heard hindsight is a wonderful thing? I am talking about without the benefit of hindsight. Perhaps if I put it a different way. It cost me £900. To get a new kit fitted could range depending on where you go from £600 to £1000 and the original may never have failed. The risk of them failing IMO is still small enough to risk the difference in price between a replacement and a repair. It would never have cost me a new engine. It would be insane to pay a dealer to put a new engine in an 6+ year old car.  

 

Some people are more risk adverse than others.

Edited 29 November, 2018 by Norco
Added a line

[xman]

12 minutes ago, Norco said:

 

You've heard hindsight is a wonderful thing? I am talking about without the benefit of hindsight. Perhaps if I put it a different way. It cost me £900. To get a new kit fitted could range depending on where you go from £600 to £1000 and the original may never have failed. The risk of them failing IMO is still small enough to risk the difference in price between a replacement and a repair. It would never have cost me a new engine. It would be insane to pay a dealer to put a new engine in an 6+ year old car.  

 

Some people are more risk adverse than others.

 

One common theme emerges from many of these engine failure threads.

 

Change the oil often.

 

Vag have shown they are incapable of designing a robust, abuse capable chain drive and tensioner.

 

They also do stupid things like the oil control rings with microscopic oil return holes.

 

Frequent oil changes are key to survival in these cases.

 

Also, I'm increasingly of the opinion that thinner oils 0w-30 etc would help here, rather than the thicker 5w-40 recommended by Offski.  Just think of where the oil needs to go and flow and clean, with chains - into the pivot links, that's where the wear is, oil control rings through very small drain holes. Flow is important to stop temperature build up locally, and thin oil gets into places thick oil can't.

 

504 spec according to the lubrizol chart is fundamentally better than the older 502 spec. But good quality full synthetic oil is even more vital and this is where I suspect Castrol/old Quantum lets the side down with their definition/manipulation of the word synthetic.

 

Quantum is now Fuchs, which possibly is a better quality oil.