Winters on !

[TheWanderer]

Been driving for 25 years in the UK. Never had use for Winter tyres, rarely been in a situation where I thought 'Wish I had them on'... When it has been so bad, which has been about three occasions in the last 10 years, I turn round and **** off back home. I suppose if they insist we have to have them them I will have to bite the bullet.

 

Some of us are "critical workers" and don't have the option of turning around and hiding under the covers like office bods, some of us have to get to work and if we don't get in we don't get paid or they take it off your leave entitlement.

 

I'm glad I have them, they've proven their worth in the past and I'm sure they will in the future and I will keep having a set of winter tyres on my cars now I know that they are worth it.

[andyvee]

Thanks Gabbo.

Can anybody tell me, what should I expect to pay for a decent brand winter tyre when purchasing 'fresh stock' in October ish time? Camskill, oponeo, mytyres, tyre leader price, not kwikfit price and by branded I guess I mean conti winter contact, Goodyear ultra grip, or the nokians. Currently these seem to be about £120+, except for the nokians at £95. So actually the current saving is possibly more like £25 per corner. Size I'm looking at is same as summer ( so I can use one of the other season set as my spare and not be restricted to space saver speeds by law) 225/40 r18.

You shouldn't mix winter and summer tyres, so I wouldn't worry about keeping the same size. If you have a vRS get some 17" alloys and save a bit on the tyres.

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[neiln]

Its no saving, in fact it's more expensive once I've bought a 5th 17" rim and tyre, plus the spare winter tyre would just age and with luck get no use.... Bit of a waste of money.  Waiting for Skoda assist isn't an option.

While I recognise any mix of tyres, different treads or compounds, isn't good, I'll risk it for a spare in an emergency and would rather risk the same size.

[johnthesparky]

The availability will start to decrease come October time, I sorted my van winters out 4 years ago, a few months after getting the van (cleaned and painted up a set of steels) and had to wait from June time until September until stock became available, but then they started to sell out by December, these tyres are now around 3mm (worst worn) and I shall leave them on now until they are worn to the limits (or i get bored and want my alloys back on) and shall then start looking for new winters in September again

The reason that winters are more useful now than they were 25 years ago, is tyre technology has moved on and tyres tend to be engineered differently to cope with the higher speeds, greater cornering forces, wear, noise, economy etc etc and tyres tend to be a lot larger now, 205 55r16 is probably the most common size (I imagine) whereas 15 years ago that was a big tyre and 155 80r13 was a common size, you only need to see how stuck people get when the weather turns to know how useful they can be...

I have a set of brand new 205 55r16 tyres on rims in the garage that didn't get used because the car didn't turn up, hopefully they'll be fine next winter :-)

Edited 27 February, 2015 by johnthesparky

[flybynite]

Like anything everyone has different priorities and winter tyres will always be one of those things in the UK or more 'temperate' countries. I am also one of those that sometimes has to get there and do a lot of driving in the night and early morning, I am a winter tyre convert.

 

In an old 2wd Ford I came up on a bend on a road I knew, there is a gap in the hedge giving the wind a chance to whip the road. Temp showing as -1, looking round the bend I could see carnage, cars everywhere. Nothing fancy, no 'cadence' braking, just jammed them on and the ABS did its best.

 

Came to rest, about 30 feet from the 7 cars that had not made it round the bend, piled into the ditch and each other. I was also able to steer round the bend while braking. Car number 8 missed me by the fact that it also did not make it round the bend, slid off and joined the rest. The people milling around their wrecks looked at my car in amazement. Pointed at the car, said 'winter tyres', picked my way around the wreckage and drove off (I did check that everyone was ok or needed help before I did   )

 

I could see many lightbulbs above heads that morning and what I saved that morning is paying for my winter tyres for a good while yet.

 

I dont think about it, I treat it as one of those things, I change them when the clocks change and do a bit of inspection/maintenance on the brakes at the time.

 

Some will never see (or perhaps have) the need, but there is no doubt at all they are incredibly effective at what they do, if you pick the right tyre (as many have said winter tyres are not snow tyres and vice versa you pick the tyre for the job) I have had these winters (TS830s) for a few seasons now and I have been glad of them more times than I can count.

Edited 27 February, 2015 by flybynite

[andyvee]

Its no saving, in fact it's more expensive once I've bought a 5th 17" rim and tyre, plus the spare winter tyre would just age and with luck get no use.... Bit of a waste of money. Waiting for Skoda assist isn't an option.

While I recognise any mix of tyres, different treads or compounds, isn't good, I'll risk it for a spare in an emergency and would rather risk the same size.

Most people don't get a 5th winter for the spare.

Didn't realise you were going to fit winters to your existing alloys, I wouldn't recommend that as they tend to get a few nicks and scratches on them with 2 tyre changes per year for 3 years no matter how careful your tyre fitter is.

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[Gromle]

Most people don't get a 5th winter for the spare.

Didn't realise you were going to fit winters to your existing alloys, I wouldn't recommend that as they tend to get a few nicks and scratches on them with 2 tyre changes per year for 3 years no matter how careful your tyre fitter is.

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A fifth wintertyre for spare aint common here in Norway either. So that is really a waste of money imo.

[neiln]

I'm not considering using my existing rims, as I said, I was on tyre leader actually looking for a2nd set. The borbet bs5 in grey 8x18, et 51 caught my eyes design wise (and the gun metal colour hides the brake dust too) and at £67.29 each they are only a few quid more than the cheapest 17". I'll need spigot adapters and taper seat bolts but that's common.

[neiln]

that's odd.  I was going to post a link to the wheels that had caught my eye, but the grey 18" seem to have goen, and the silver version is up to £94.  I guess they change prices often and stock levels showing  5 green bars down mean much!  I'll have to be quicker when i see a rim I like

[neiln]

damn!  I thought they looked great!

[toni8b]

Some nice wheels here: http://www.platin-wheels.com/en/platin-wheels-overview.php

[harrysprout]

Some of us are "critical workers" and don't have the option of turning around and hiding under the covers like office bods, some of us have to get to work and if we don't get in we don't get paid or they take it off your leave entitlement.

 

I'm glad I have them, they've proven their worth in the past and I'm sure they will in the future and I will keep having a set of winter tyres on my cars now I know that they are worth it.

I'm talking about the kind of conditions that winter tyres would be completely useless in. The kind of conditions that the AA and RAC advise you NOT to travel in. The conditions that that leave you stranded in a car overnight. That's when I turn back. Winter tyres or not. 

[kallekilponen]

I'm talking about the kind of conditions that winter tyres would be completely useless in. The kind of conditions that the AA and RAC advise you NOT to travel in. The conditions that that leave you stranded in a car overnight. That's when I turn back. Winter tyres or not. 

As a Finn I'm wondering what kind of conditions those would be. We have pretty harsh winters up here and I have yet to come across conditions where winter tires wouldn't be enough.

[flybynite]

I'm talking about the kind of conditions that winter tyres would be completely useless in. The kind of conditions that the AA and RAC advise you NOT to travel in. The conditions that that leave you stranded in a car overnight. That's when I turn back. Winter tyres or not. 

 

Generally the AA and RAC advise you not to travel "unless absolutely necessary"

 

For some people it is

[fabdavrav]

As a Finn I'm wondering what kind of conditions those would be. We have pretty harsh winters up here and I have yet to come across conditions where winter tires wouldn't be enough.

 

I wouldn't worry, they are pretty "low" as the AA & RAC usually advise people to stay at home because they realise that the vast majority can't cope with more that 3cm of snow on the ground & they would be having to rescue them!

 

When I have seen footage of these big jams where people have here in the UK had to sleep overnight etc. I am ashamed.............if all the trucks & cars in those jams had winter tyres & those drivers had proper training as per in Scandinavian countries (at driving test stage)....guess what?....no jam everyone drives on......what snow?................

 

The only time I turn around is when the snow gates are closed by the Police.....................blizzard conditions in darkness...........no problems even in my old Fabia!

[kallekilponen]

I wouldn't worry, they are pretty "low" as the AA & RAC usually advise people to stay at home because they realise that the vast majority can't cope with more that 3cm of snow on the ground & they would be having to rescue them!

 

When I have seen footage of these big jams where people have here in the UK had to sleep overnight etc. I am ashamed.............if all the trucks & cars in those jams had winter tyres & those drivers had proper training as per in Scandinavian countries (at driving test stage)....guess what?....no jam everyone drives on......what snow?................

Sounds reasonable.

 

I've only had two instances during my 12 years of driving that I've genuinely been worried of getting stuck. Both happened on the same country road on particularly snowy winters.

 

The first was about 10 years ago when driving through such a thick layer of fresh snow I had to keep my wipers on to wipe off the snow that was traveling up my bonnet of my 2003 Renault Clio. But even then I had no trouble getting to my destination following the plowing markers on either side of the road (to know where the road was). I did however have to spend some time cleaning out the snow that was packed tight in the front grille.

 

The second was a couple of years ago when driving through a 30 cm layer of snow that was wet slush in the bottom and frozen to a crisp on top. Almost got stuck with my AWD Volvo when the snow lifted the car high enough that the front tires lost grip. Had to stop halfway through, back up about 10 meters, switch the gearbox to winter mode and turn traction control off and power on through. Wouldn't have made it in a FWD car but AWD and Nokian Hakkapeliitta R:s saved the day.

Edited 28 February, 2015 by kallekilponen

[harrysprout]

Not so much as lack of winter tyres at all that bring the nation to it's knees with a few inches of snow. More to do with the fact that our infrastructure is ill equipped to deal with snow when it arrives. It's simply not worth councils investing millions in snow blowers and ploughs when we get one or two bad winters per decade. I might consider investing in tyres if I thought it was necessary for me. But I have never felt the need

Edited 28 February, 2015 by harrysprout

[fabdavrav]

Not so much as lack of winter tyres at all that bring the nation to it's knees with a few inches of snow.

 

I disagree, based on personal observations!

 

20yrs of north of Scotland winters & traveling to our ski areas, the amount of people who I overtake because they are scared sh1tless at 20mph in a 60mph zone.......especially those stupid big 4x4 Range rovers with summer chariot wheels who come up from the central belt to go ski-ing!

 

You should see the look on their faces when a small Fabia over takes them at 40mph!...................  

 

Winters do make a huge difference, & would keep so much traffic flowing better, even if the councils do nothing more than they currently do!

 

I suggest you drive a car on winters ..................it is that Different!!!!!......black ice is more manageable, ABS systems work much better, stopping distances are better.............& hell I've even had fun by purposely getting my old Fabia into a 4wd style sideways drift around the corners ...............lovely! :sun:

[Rsrob]

Winter tyres make a big difference it's so much easier to dive on winter road with them fitted to the car

[Huskoda]

Not so much as lack of winter tyres at all that bring the nation to it's knees with a few inches of snow. More to do with the fact that our infrastructure is ill equipped to deal with snow when it arrives. It's simply not worth councils investing millions in snow blowers and ploughs when we get one or two bad winters per decade. I might consider investing in tyres if I thought it was necessary for me. But I have never felt the need

It would be better if they spent the money they waste on spreading salt and plowing the 5cm of snow we get on winter tyre subsidies for motorists. I've had them on both cars for years and there ain't a chance I'd be without them. I find them better in normal wet conditions in winter too, don't even need to have snow to feel the difference. The open pattern is much better at displacing water and preventing aqua planing.

I'm all on favour of the German system being implemented here. You don't have to have winter tyres, but you cause an accident or block a road because you're not equipped for the conditions you've gone out in, instant fine and points. I want to see the people who say either they manage fine without them or won't go out if it's bad put their money where their mouth is.

[Gabbo]

I've had them on both cars for years and there ain't a chance I'd be without them. I find them better in normal wet conditions in winter too, don't even need to have snow to feel the difference. The open pattern is much better at displacing water and preventing aqua planing.

 

+1

 

As mentioned by several people winter tyres are not just for snow.

They are designed for cold and/or wet conditions.

So if you live in a country which is below 5° and there's a lot of rain in the winter they are going to be a benefit.

When the weather is cold they will improve stopping distances, grip & handling even in dry conditions.

 

Whether they are worth the investment is a personal choice but I'm sure the european system will come to the UK eventually.

[vrskeith]

So is there an alternative in the future?

 

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=31793&utm_source=2015-3-11&utm_medium=email&utm_content=html&utm_campaign=newsletter

[kallekilponen]

So is there an alternative in the future?

 

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=31793&utm_source=2015-3-11&utm_medium=email&utm_content=html&utm_campaign=newsletter

It already has the 'snowflake' certification that means those countries who force drivers by law to switch every winter have accepted it works.

No, they have measured it has a deep enough pattern. The whole M+S certification is a joke, and gives no indication of a tires true winter capabilities.

All-seasons might let you climb a snowy hill, they said, but they don't offer the dry braking and wet braking performance of a summer tyre.

So they're like all-seasons, but with better summer handling...so basically they're good for southern/center europe, but have no business in real winter conditions...

Michelin admits this is a middle of the road tyre. So if you're Alps-bound every other winter weekend or are looking for a sports tyre with ultimate bite and feel, this ain't going cover your needs. For the UK-based family hack, however, this could offer just the right level of all-year rubber protection.

Seems like a good choice for most people on this forum, but nothing too spectacular for us northern folk... Oh well, I'm quite happy with my Hakkapeliitta R2s.

Edited 11 March, 2015 by kallekilponen

[sirdeadalot]

I'll add my view to this extensive thread.

 

I currently drive a 3-series BMW (I have an Octy Scout on order) and I've used winter wheels for a couple of years.  Those who've owned BMWs will know that on a summer tyre they can smell ice and snow at 50 paces and start sliding round in circles (I'm only half joking).  So I took the plunge and bought steel winter wheels for it.

 

Okay, steel wheels look pretty rubbish compared to my summer 18" two-tone monsters, but even though we've not had much snow in the south for a couple of years they make a massive difference.  Wet grip and braking is hugely better, the car is much less skittish in the cold, and aquaplaning is pretty much a thing of the past.  Plus the steel wheels are much less susceptible to damage from potholes hidden underwater or sliding into kerbs on ice.  Once, they saved my life, or at least my dignity:

 

During the 2013/14 winter where we had the huge rainstorms, I was driving to the station one day down a country road I use every day, at 4am.  Unknown to me, a stream had burst its banks and was gushing across the road, probably about 6 inches deep and flowing at pace.  It was on a bend, raining and dark, so I didn't see it until it was way too late to brake or avoid it.  Oh s@#t I thought, that's me in the ditch then...but no, the winter tyres went straight through it like it wasn't there.  I don't think I would've been so lucky with my summer wheels.

 

When the Scout arrives I'm going to investigate winter wheels for it.  I'm leasing the car so not sure what the finance company will think, but if they'll let me and the price isn't too bad I'd buy them again.

 

Now to scour the rest of this forum and see what other owners have bought and where from.

[M12MKD]

Am I correct in thinking that these will not be any good.

 

225/50/17V - 112x5 7J offset 40.

 

I'm sure from the MK2FL that Audi A6 wheels will not work.

 

I've checked on willitfit.com and it comes back with this.

 

                               Standard 19's       17's in question

Diameter                    640.1mm              656.8mm

Circumference          2010.9mm            2063.4mm

Poke                           44.3mm                60.3mm

Inset                          146.3mm             130.3mm

Speedo error                 0%                   -2.54%

Reading at 30mph      30mph                29.24mph

Reading at 60mph      60mph                58.47mph

Ride height gain           0mm                   8.35mm

Arch gap loss               0mm                   8.35mm

 

Compared to your existing wheel, this new wheel will have an inner rim which is 16mm further away from the suspension strut. The outer rim will poke out 16mm more than before. 

But if I'm to be honest I'm really not sure what that means in real world terms.