AE189 could be a Superb engine

[silver1011]

The next step would have been legal advice / action.

 

I'd been there before with BMW after an engine failure and it wasn't a pleasant experience.

 

I didn't have the appetite to go through it all again to be honest.

 

Still on the plus side the Superb is a far superior car compared to the Octavia so ultimately it was the right decision for me.

[Jezwh]

Assuming that the fix (whether software update or component replacement) has a negative effect on the torque curve, do you think this could potentially affect the towing capacity of a particular model/engine, which I believe is at least partly related to the power/torque available.

Could this in turn result in a vehicle not being capable of performing as specified/purchased?

[Kazimir80]

Thats the point and its against what you have purchased. So in result, you payed for stronger engine with agreed emision level, some of us paying for emisions annualy and the dieselgate will end up, that your engine will be undertuned in something you proably wouldnt buy if you have known earlier and thats what is people making really angry about....

[Pesmog]

I was speaking to an acquaintance in Germany today who works for a main lubricant manufacturer and he was telling me that the German transport ministry said today that the majority of 2 litre Euro 5 cars may only need a software upgrade. However, for the 1.6 Diesel its more confusing and a significant number (but possibly not all) will also need hardware upgrades including new exhaust elements, wiring, pumps and adding the urea injection system including a tank.  They are estimating that 3.6m VW group cars will need the hardware fix rather than just the software. My friend said though, that position is far from clear, even in Germany, with the story seemingly changing every few days and the rumour mill rife.

Edited 9 October, 2015 by Pesmog

[Legacy]

I was speaking to an acquaintance in Germany today who works for a main lubricant manufacturer and he was telling me that the German transport ministry said today that the majority of 2 litre Euro 5 cars may only need a software upgrade. However, for the 1.6 Diesel its more confusing and a significant number (but possibly not all) will also need hardware upgrades including new exhaust elements, wiring, pumps and adding the urea injection system including a tank.  They are estimating that 3.6m VW group cars will need the hardware fix rather than just the software. My friend said though, that position is far from clear, even in Germany, with the story seemingly changing every few days and the rumour mill rife.

 The harder working 1.6 engines will need the most modifications I think.  That engine in a Superb has a completely different experience to a similar engine in a lighter car.  Lets hope that (a) it can be made compliant and that the necessary modifications won't completely ruin the driving experience and reduce the fuel consumption (also hoping that the work is done to a high standard and we don't suffer leaking injectors etc).

Edited 9 October, 2015 by Legacy

[Danny 57]

I have tried to take a step back.

The only thing that is affected was the fake test when the cars ecu was programmed to know that it was being tested and therefore reduced the various elements to kid the out come.

As far as I know at all other times it worked as normal hence the car mags claimed and actual CO2 varied by between 20-40% over the last at least three years that I remember Auto Express quoting in their tests.

Now is it that element that may be changed which may officially increase your V5 form and therefore your yearly road. I do not think the government will do that because of what is involved as it is far easier to fine the car makers which at this time is only VW!

[Snapper1725]

Just had a letter this morning from skoda UK saying my car is affected by what's gone on. Says ok to use and they will be in touch when a fix is sorted

Mines a 13 reg

[Laurie61]

Just had a letter this morning from skoda UK saying my car is affected by what's gone on. Says ok to use and they will be in touch when a fix is sorted

Mines a 13 reg

 

I have had the same letter this morning, will be interesting to see just what needs doing to 'fix' it. If there are associated, negative, performance changes then it won't be going in.      

[skodapeter]

Just had the letter. On the web site it says "Skoda will cover the cost relating directly to this repair". My letter says "......the repair will be at no cost to you". I noted the word "directly" at the time and thought it suggested that no costs of getting the vehicle to the dealer would be considered (my nearest Skoda dealer is 20 miles away, and the one from whom I bought the car is 30 miles). The letter does not have such a condition. I am hoping that before and after figures for all important emissions and power/torque are given to help us decide whether or not to have the mods done.

Oh yes, quite forgot the very important figure of MPG in my requirements above!

Edited 13 October, 2015 by skodapeter

[woodysc1]

Had the letter today for my 170 CR 2010. Will not be taking it in unless I am forced to around road tax.

[wharferat]

Me too. I would hope that even if the "repair" is only removing the cheat in the software, that Skoda UK also give a sweetener of some sort. However, what would be considered a sweetener for some may not be for others, so maybe contacting people some time before the date they want the car in, & giving them options, maybe next service for free, equipment upgrade, whatever floats your boat, but obviously they will not make your £15,000 car into a £25,000 one.

[Pesmog]

What I found interesting was the Head of VW UK's deposition to the Parliamentary committee yesterday that was covered live on the radio.  He reiterated about the 2 litre software update that we know about, but he differed for the 1.6's on what my acquaintance in Germany is saying. In Germany they are saying the adblu hardware will need to be added. VW UK said to the UK committee that 1.6 cars only needed a set of injectors and software. 

 

My gut feeling is that nobody actually knows for sure yet what is really needed........

[jpalo]

Removed

Edited 14 October, 2015 by jpalo

[numskull]

I have had the same letter this morning, will be interesting to see just what needs doing to 'fix' it. If there are associated, negative, performance changes then it won't be going in.      

 

Yup, ours arrived on Monday and I agree - let's wait and see what issues, if any, the fix creates. In theory of course, it should be nothing as it only works when the car "knows" its test mode. What I can't fathom, is that a couple of random geeky programmers should suddenly decide they'd like to do this.......

[Helipilot]

The UK boss was shown on TV saying that after the mods there will be no difference in performance or fuel ecconomy. If this is not the case then we have a case!

 

The following was taken from his statement:  "Engineers were under orders to ensure that the fuel efficiency of the cars involved was not reduced as a result of the changes, he insisted."

[Helipilot]

Further to my post above, he also states that "any customer who is inconvenienced will receive a loan car"

[peterposh]

will any remedy affect a remap ?

[numskull]

will any remedy affect a remap ?

I guess so, if the fix involves a flash of the Engine Management ECU, which I presume is where this clumsy "cheat" resides...

[psycholist]

I wouldn't call it clumsy - it's probably the most sophisticated cheat discovered so far in the engine management of a road going car. Using the steering sensor data through the CANbus to tell the ecu that the car is on a rolling road and to drop to the low NOx mode is anything but clumsy - the engines were almost out of production before anyone was able to prove something dodgy was going on. It wasn't honest or ethical or in any way keeping to the spirit of the emissions regulations, but clumsy it certainly wasn't...

[peterposh]

They are talking of a fix , I wonder if it'll be compulsory or needed for mot? I won't bother unless it is

[Yearofthegoat]

Had my letter the other day.

 

How can you tell if this fix has been applied? Mine's at the dealer's for a repair right now, so likely too early for a stealthily applied fix(!), but once they start rolling it out how will future second-hand buyers know if it's been done?

 

I don't have VCDS or the like but I guess those that do could take some kind of software snapshot/inventory and do a 'before and after'...

[psycholist]

For my remap the ECU had to be removed, opened and probed in a custom designed fixture to download the existing engine map, so I'm not sure how much a VCDS snapshot would tell you about changes to the engine map.

[numskull]

I wouldn't call it clumsy - it's probably the most sophisticated cheat discovered so far in the engine management of a road going car. Using the steering sensor data through the CANbus to tell the ecu that the car is on a rolling road and to drop to the low NOx mode is anything but clumsy - the engines were almost out of production before anyone was able to prove something dodgy was going on. It wasn't honest or ethical or in any way keeping to the spirit of the emissions regulations, but clumsy it certainly wasn't...

Yes, it's sophisticated, but on the basis the "cheat" (fraud) been found-out, that's pretty clumsy....

[langers2k]

For my remap the ECU had to be removed, opened and probed in a custom designed fixture to download the existing engine map, so I'm not sure how much a VCDS snapshot would tell you about changes to the engine map.

 

I would expect the software version number to change but that's probably about as much as you'd get back from VCDS. If getting it remapped by a third party I wouldn't even expect the software number to change