Breaking VW Emissions Scandal -Mk I

[Stuart_J]

So nuclear and renewables make up about a third currently and will be almost half in the next 5 years http://www.energy-uk.org.uk/energy-industry/electricity-generation.html  so your next car could be being getting half its charge from nuclear and wind.  Sounds good to me.

 

Gas is the cleanest of the Hydrocarbons of course, and oil and coal power stations have exhaust scrubbers to remove much of the harmful gases unlike vehicles, particularly 2 litre VAG ones, cheat the test and are not measured when running on the road.     

The motor industry is interlinked, it wont only be VAG

 

What staggers me the most is The EU spend BIllions employing many people to bring in rules on emissions & then don't test the cars independently  in the real environment. Once again its Total Incompetence by those we elect & employ . something like the Nurburgring would make a great test track, hills , slow corners, fast corners & a long queue to get on

 

I bet many athletes would be glad if they only had to submit drug tests that they took long before an event & weren't tested when performing, not an ideal comparison but you can hopefully see the logic of what I'm saying. Real world tests are the only way & if I were VAG I would be pushing for that to show how others are manipulating things,

[skomaz]

As to the argument that cows, buses, trucks, trains, boats and planes produce more pollution than diesel engined cars, I guess you would also argue that flinging a fag packet, McDonalds container or Red Bull can out of the window is OK on the basis that "Everyone else does it so what difference does my rubbish make?"

 

I think you're misreading some of the arguments - what a lot of people are saying is that yes it's not good BUT get your reaction in proportion to the scale of the actual result...   No-one has said diesel cars (an in particular the VW's concerned) don't pollute - but the impact of what they have done is very small compared to the overall emissions pot - so don't go overboard with the reaction.

[skomaz]

I believe that the incidence of people suffering from Asthma is increasing dramatically. However, don't let that threaten your love affair with diesel, it is almost certainly a result of flatulent cattle wandering the streets where you live.

 

Correct and I don't argue that fact.  But also I have never said that Asthma is caused by flatulent cattle so please don't mess and mis-quote me.  You may feel hard-done by with some of my arguments but there is no need to take that tone just because you don't agree.  Have a reasoned discussion and explain your point instead.

[Aspman]

Just love the way I'm murdering thousands of people every year when I drive my diesel car on the roads of Great Britain and Mrs Moley is causing climate change when she drives her petrol car.

 

I like to sit outside primary schools revving my diesel engine. The clouds of smoke entertain the kids no end much better than that theatrical smoke for them to play in.

 

[briskycat]

For me it is VAG's attitude towards the public, and their customers in particular, that matters most, not the actual emission figures. VAG is becoming notorious for not acknowledging evident problems and behaving in a way that looks fraudulent.

[vxh26]

<SNIP> VAG is becoming notorious for not acknowledging evident problems and behaving in a way that looks fraudulent.

A bit like Britain's least favourite large Supermarket then

[FLAPPERJACK7]

For me it is VAG's attitude towards the public, and their customers in particular, that matters most, not the actual emission figures. VAG is becoming notorious for not acknowledging evident problems and behaving in a way that looks fraudulent.

I agree totally. The bigger Vag have become the worse their attitude towards everyone has become. Not just the public but to the dealer's and the technician's.

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Edited 24 September, 2015 by FLAPPERJACK7

[Ootohere]

Any Statements from the UK Transport Minister on this, ?

and now i see there are news paper articles saying that the UK, German and French Governments were trying to make the Emissions Testing easier on the car Manufacturers.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sept/24/uk-france-and-germany-lobbied-for-flawed-car-emissions-tests-documents-reveal

[classic]

For me it is VAG's attitude towards the public, and their customers in particular, that matters most, not the actual emission figures. VAG is becoming notorious for not acknowledging evident problems and behaving in a way that looks fraudulent.

I agree, but its ironic that it takes the Americans to do anything about it. Europeans have been happily buying these cars, (many then get remapped and/or dpf removed), everyone knows that the real world economy figures are miles worse than the official figures but nobody does anything, tv programmes and newspapers report on it but nothing happens.

Then the US realise, come down on VW like a ton of bricks and suddenly we are outraged and governments start investigating.

It reminds me of the FIFA corruption debacle, for the last 20 years you could ask anyone interested in football what they thought of FIFA and they would say "corrupt and self serving" and that they didn't trust Sepp Blatter, nothing happened, then the Americans were affected and they get straight on with it - international search and arrest warrants etc etc - Europe then starts saying something must be done, we've suspected this for years, blah blah blah.

Edited 24 September, 2015 by classic

[jawsnpaws]

Ever get the feeling that this whole saga has been rigged by VAG and that all the reports and outrage by vested interests have been carefully leaked to allow VAG to walk away from engines altogether .

 

This is just the first stage . I'll bet that VAG have already costed this whole debacle and have decided that it is their cheapest option for survival , for Google and Apple are coming !

 

All that is required of an engine is a very simple device which only has to rotate a wheel but crucially vary the speed of that wheel and the electric engine is already here albeit in a very early stage of development . Factor in the cost of this possibly universal current lie worldwide , or the cost had it been dealt with in the first place , and electric or the like will suddenly become a very economical proposition .

 

The only reason engines are heavy and complicated is because of emissions , largely controlled by software which again is in its infancy , to control fallible mechanical parts , and the measures necessary to overcome these inefficiencies in the interests of economy plus the basic laziness of manufacturers to use new technologies as opposed to add ons and cheap fixes .

 

In the future there will probably be only a handful of propulsion unit types built around the world , but they will be differentiated by crucially , branded software - the new future liquid gold .

 

I heard a long time ago that VAG had ceased development of any new diesel engines .

 

Things don't just happen anymore !

[FLAPPERJACK7]

Probably something to do with the fact Germany has 45% gdp from vehicle manufacturing ..

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I also have heard vag have no plans after the euro 6 diesel engine

Edited 24 September, 2015 by FLAPPERJACK7

[skomaz]

The number of miles has been fairly consistent at around 10K a year but the number of cars now exceeds 30M and is growing by about half a million a year.  UK population expected to be the largest in Europe in the next couple of decades.

 

 

But...   the increase in the number of vehicles on the road and the population don't necessarily mean more vehicle trips.  DfT figures show that in 2014 the total number of vehicle miles travelled is unchanged from the 2006 figure and, in fact, reduced between 2009 and 2013 by 3%.

[Ootohere]

So the German Transport Minister has said that VWG have owned up to manipulation of tests in Europe.

 

Well SKY News reported that. Just now.

[skomaz]

 

The only reason engines are heavy and complicated is because of emissions

 

Correct and many of the emissions are 'worse' for human health (PM2.5's come to mind) than they would be were the emissions controls and economy requirements not in place.

 

It is a rather perverse irony that the increase in dangerous particulates, and most noticeably those in the news at the minute with the highest carcinogenic properties (ie those much smaller than PM10), is a direct result of the ever tightening emmissions legislation and efficiency requirements.

 

The latter have driven manufacturers to ever higher Diesel injection pressures, with more precise control systems to meet the legislation and this results in a finer mist of Diesel being injected into the cylinder with a more precise burn, which in-turn leads to finer particulates.

[vxh26]

So the German Transport Minister has said that VWG have owned up to manipulation of tests in Europe.  Well SKY News reported that. Just now.

Now also on BBC Online.

 

Germany's transport minister says Volkswagen has admitted using the same fake emissions test in Europe as it used to falsify results in the US.

 

He also said other manufacturers' vehicles would be checked.

[TsvRS]

For me it is VAG's attitude towards the public, and their customers in particular, that matters most, not the actual emission figures. VAG is becoming notorious for not acknowledging evident problems and behaving in a way that looks fraudulent.

 

Vorsprung durch fibbing ...

[Sad555]

Class action laws come into effect next Thursday so the legal industry must be rubbing their hands in anticipation of all the new clients ready to take action against VAG,so let's hope there's enough money (£28 billion ) latest estimate,to cover costs so let's hope they don't go into bankruptcy in the meantime as the motor industry are suggesting they won't touch VAG vehicles with a sh***¥ stick,but I'm sure it will all blow over soon.

[lol-lol]

Just tweak the damn software so it does not produce some much NO.

 

You only need 20 hp to drive at 70 mph.  If all the 2 litre TDIs are detuned down to 100 hp or so the NO should be within limits.   

 

Then VW should be obliged to take those not happy with the remap to emissions compliance and offered a buy back or credit against a SCR fitted model that is compliant and the HP want. 

 

Will cost VW billions and they may not have enough to put aside for this after the cost of class actions in the States.  Similarities to LIBOR, PPI etc which look likely to be around VAG's neck for a decade or more financial but solvable technical within a few months. 

[skomaz]

Class action laws come into effect next Thursday so the legal industry must be rubbing their hands in anticipation of all the new clients

 

Yep the only REAL winners from this will be the lawyers as usual, not those who are claiming 'damages' - don't you just hate em!

[vxh26]

Just tweak the damn software so it does not produce some much NO.

 

You only need 20 hp to drive at 70 mph.  If all the 2 litre TDIs are detuned down to 100 hp or so the NO should be within limits.   

<SNIP>

I presume that this would also result in SERIOUSLY high MPG figures and greater reliability as a result of lower stresses?

 

Win/Win

[Huskoda]

Just tweak the damn software so it does not produce some much NO.

 

You only need 20 hp to drive at 70 mph.  If all the 2 litre TDIs are detuned down to 100 hp or so the NO should be within limits.   

 

Then VW should be obliged to take those not happy with the remap to emissions compliance and offered a buy back or credit against a SCR fitted model that is compliant and the HP want. 

 

Will cost VW billions and they may not have enough to put aside for this after the cost of class actions in the States.  Similarities to LIBOR, PPI etc which look likely to be around VAG's neck for a decade or more financial but solvable technical within a few months. 

That would go down super well. Skoda owners would be a laughing stock on the road, with their slow cars that need to be pushed to go up hills.

[FLAPPERJACK7]

Wonder what the Volkswagen share price will be tomorrow?

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[RobbySpurs]

That would go down super well. Skoda owners would be a laughing stock on the road, with their slow cars that need to be pushed to go up hills.

Not as funny as all the Audi drivers having to do the same...

[sigarland1987]

That would go down super well. Skoda owners would be a laughing stock on the road, with their slow cars that need to be pushed to go up hills.

Heated rear Screen sales will go through the roof though...

[ColinD]

This will spill into so many areas it's untrue.

 

two years ago, you recall the tyre ratings like appliances, A B C D etc.. well turns out that the tyre maker can choose the rating and does not have to prove it, or didn't then. If the tyre is tested, then it's fine as the initial test batch were different

 

The 'problem' isn't with the levels, the test cheat or whatever, it's the obsession, developed nations and thinkers have on measuring and setting targets.

 

We've all learnt how to beat targets since we were given our first chore. Fill the log basket, ok, I'll stack logs on their ends as that takes up more space. Do the washing and drying, ok I'll leave the plates to dry as technically it's still drying up... no just me? umm I doubt it. No matter, I would say 99.9% of the population of a VAG market, by the age of 18 have in someway cheated a test or target. The only thing we cannot cheat is hunter gathering and lighting our own fire, that is we cannot cheat ourselves or nature, we can trick n trap

 

The 'shock' that it's been done is in itself amazing. I was far more alarmed at how we've just given China a blank cheque for 2 billion quid, for something we've known since the 70's costs more than budgeted and always takes longer... I hope Osbourne et al has a nice province in China marked out.

 

More than VAG will be hit by this, but VAG will take the biggest hit, numbers and emission tests are all far too similar.

 

After all put a 2l diesel engine out, that makes 180hp by 3 or 4 different manf's, not including fiat, yet emissions are almost the same... one is found wanting... well my friends there is only one thing the news channels should be showing tonight.

 

 

oops sorry I meant his taken from a recent board meeting via vagcam