I remain fascinated how the odd poster on this thread apparently knows chapter and verse about how the modifications will affect our vehicles and how our lives will be doomed ever after.

I'm sure if I hated all things VAG as much as it comes across in some posts, I'd spend my waking hours somewhere else, talking to people who may actually be interested.

Well there is always the 'UNFOLLOW' button if it bores you so much........or are you a 'wannabe' mod?

My vehicle has the same EA 189 engine without SCR

And

As the U.S. CEO has said on the record may not be able to be fixed economically and owners may be given a buyback offer.

When they write to you, I suggest you have a clear understanding of your rights and subsequent to accepting their offer, your responsibilities and limitations.

I'm not going to sign anything until I have all the facts.

I'm not a 'brand fan' either, just a victim of unconscionable conduct by Germans like so many others.

Of course 'blind faith' IS an option.

Edited 9 October, 201510 yr by Ryeman

I remain fascinated how the odd poster on this thread apparently knows chapter and verse about how the modifications will affect our vehicles and how our lives will be doomed ever after.

 

I'm sure if I hated all things VAG as much as it comes across in some posts, I'd spend my waking hours somewhere else, talking to people who may actually be interested.  

 

Quite!!

 

Well there is always the 'UNFOLLOW' button if it bores you so much........or are you a 'wannabe' mod?

My vehicle has the same EA 189 engine without SCR

And

As the U.S. CEO has said on the record may not be able to be fixed economically and owners may be given a buyback offer.

When they write to you, I suggest you have a clear understanding of your rights and subsequent to accepting their offer, your responsibilities and limitations.

I'm not going to sign anything until I have all the facts.

I'm not a 'brand fan' either, just a victim of unconscionable conduct by Germans like so many others.

Of course 'blind faith' IS an option.

 

I'm still trying to work out why you keep mentioning this "Unfollow" button? Not something I have ever seen or used.

 

What happens in the US is not the same as what happens in the UK or the EU, as our limits are different. Therefore any statement made about that market place is probably irrelevant to most of us, especially as Skoda is not sold in that market. 

Until we have an factual statement from VAG as to what the actual "fix" is then any discussion is purely conjecture, and to be honest is getting tedious.

 

And yes, according to SUK my car is one of those affected, but I am not worried about it.

What will be will be.

Blind acceptance is ALWAYS an option.

Being forewarned is one also.......when it comes to your 'rights' that is.

When they write to you will you obediently oblige?

Quite!!

I'm still trying to work out why you keep mentioning this "Unfollow" button? Not something I have ever seen or used.

What happens in the US is not the same as what happens in the UK or the EU, as our limits are different. Therefore any statement made about that market place is probably irrelevant to most of us, especially as Skoda is not sold in that market.

Until we have an factual statement from VAG as to what the actual "fix" is then any discussion is purely conjecture, and to be honest is getting tedious.

And yes, according to SUK my car is one of those affected, but I am not worried about it.

What will be will be.

Spot on.

Blind acceptance is ALWAYS an option.

Being forewarned is one also.......when it comes to your 'rights' that is.

When they write to you will you obediently oblige?

I've read this a couple of times but have no idea what point you're trying to make.

I've read this a couple of times but have no idea what point you're trying to make.

If your car is one of those for a recall

Will you simply hand it over?

Or

Will you want to know what power/torque/economy will result BEFORE is worked on?

For those who don't care, don't shoot down people who do

I don't abuse people on a discussion forum because that's what this is

Otherwise you end up with a club of likeminded.....unless that's what you want(?).

How will those who bought a car from a non VAG dealer fare? Assume VAG still hold responsibility and those people will be treat the same way?

I remain fascinated how the odd poster on this thread apparently knows chapter and verse about how the modifications will affect our vehicles and how our lives will be doomed ever after.

I'm sure if I hated all things VAG as much as it comes across in some posts, I'd spend my waking hours somewhere else, talking to people who may actually be interested.

The most immediate issue is the value of our vehicles. Some have already seen a few £1,000 wiped of their value.

Nothing like losing money to perk up interest

If your car is one of those for a recall

Will you simply hand it over?

Or

Will you want to know what power/torque/economy will result BEFORE is worked on?

For those who don't care, don't shoot down people who do

I don't abuse people on a discussion forum because that's what this is

Otherwise you end up with a club of likeminded.....unless that's what you want(?).

I don't think anyone on here reading this thread doesn't care or they wouldn't be here.

Obviously everyone will want to know what effect the 'fix' will have before handing their car over, that's a no brainer, surely.

Edited 10 October, 201510 yr by StreetHawk

Some posters and the press need to understand the differences between the US and EU.

 

For Euro 5 engines the NOx limit is many times higher than the US Tier2. 0.18g/km vs 0.045g/km

 

For Euro 5 engines there is no on the road test for NOx as in the US, Euro 5 just has to pass the lab dyno NOx test.

 

EA189 engines without the Bosch ECU already pass Euro 5 that is why some engines are effected and some are not. The hardware can pass Euro 5 fine.

 

There will be no need for new engines or fitting of SCR in Europe, that's a US thing to pass the ongoing test to the much lower limit.

 

Consumer Law in the US is very different to the EU.

 

Expect a remap in the EU to remove the cheat software.

 

Lee

Edited 10 October, 201510 yr by logiclee

Some posters and the press need to understand the differences between the US and EU.

 

For Euro 5 engines the NOx limit is many times higher than the US Tier2. 0.18g/km vs 0.045g/km

 

For Euro 5 engines there is no on the road test for NOx as in the US, Euro 5 just has to pass the lab dyno NOx test.

 

EA189 engines without the Bosch ECU already pass Euro 5 that is why some engines are effected and some are not. The hardware can pass Euro 5 fine.

 

There will be no need for new engines or fitting of SCR in Europe, that's a US thing to pass the ongoing test to the much lower limit.

 

Consumer Law in the US is very different to the EU.

 

Expect a remap in the EU to remove the cheat software.

 

Lee

 

 

OK Lee.  But for a simple mind like mine, (someone who likes driving cars, but whose technical knowledge dates back to distributors and cross ply tyres), will a simple remap have any effect on acceleration and fuel economy.  After all, it was the fuel consumption and low VED that were major considerations in buying my Greenline.

 

All this talk of "remaps" confuses me.  I spent 40 years surveying proper maps for Ordnance Survey.  I never realised there was a map in my Skoda engine!!  (In built SatNav??) 

Edited 10 October, 201510 yr by 05surveyor

OK Lee. But for a simple mind like mine, (someone who likes driving cars, but whose technical knowledge dates back to distributors and cross ply tyres), will a simple remap have any effect on acceleration and fuel economy. After all, it was the fuel consumption and low VED that were major considerations in buying my Greenline.

All this talk of "remaps" confuses me. I spent 40 years surveying proper maps for Ordnance Survey. I never realised there was a map in my Skoda engine!! (In built SatNav??)

This is the big question , he or anyone else on this thread can't answer it. We just have to wait until VW confirm the details of the fix for UK cars. I'd imagine that someone will be doing dyno / mpg tests before and after to confirm as soon as they start taking the cars in.

Some posters and the press need to understand the differences between the US and EU.

 

For Euro 5 engines the NOx limit is many times higher than the US Tier2. 0.18g/km vs 0.045g/km

 

For Euro 5 engines there is no on the road test for NOx as in the US, Euro 5 just has to pass the lab dyno NOx test.

 

EA189 engines without the Bosch ECU already pass Euro 5 that is why some engines are effected and some are not. The hardware can pass Euro 5 fine.

 

There will be no need for new engines or fitting of SCR in Europe, that's a US thing to pass the ongoing test to the much lower limit.

 

Consumer Law in the US is very different to the EU.

 

Expect a remap in the EU to remove the cheat software.

 

Lee

So why did a defeat device get installed on non U.S. vehicles when it wasn't needed?.

After all, if it's that easy to correct, why wasn't that what we originally got.......or am I again missing something obvious?.

In the original US documents describing the discovery of the cheat device in letters to VAG (worth reading) said that the software caused more urea to be injected when the engine was under test.

So if you're not running an engine with SCR, might the only change be that some redundant code is stripped out? If you want to hide code in code, you would not create a different version of the software with and without, it would cause obvious questions.

What is missing is the next level of technical explanation of exactly what the code does, line by line.

Someone, somewhere, must be reading the actual source code and be able to know precisely what it did in all cases - once that is made public, then we will know 100% what's going on. At the moment, your vehicle is impacted might just mean it has some code that will never be executed in the engine management software in the natural use of your car in Europe or in European tests.

OK Lee.  But for a simple mind like mine, (someone who likes driving cars, but whose technical knowledge dates back to distributors and cross ply tyres), will a simple remap have any effect on acceleration and fuel economy.  After all, it was the fuel consumption and low VED that were major considerations in buying my Greenline.

 

All this talk of "remaps" confuses me.  I spent 40 years surveying proper maps for Ordnance Survey.  I never realised there was a map in my Skoda engine!!  (In built SatNav??) 

 

I think what Lee is saying and matches my current understanding is that the EU software will be updated to remove the code that is used to cheat the US emissions test. As that code may not be activated or needed during the EU5 test given the differing NOx limits and certainly isn't used on road then there may no impact on normal day to day use for EU vehicles.

 

Unfortunately, we can't be sure it'll be this simple as everything is very mixed up in the media reporting US and EU issues together and interchanging facts and figures across the two. At the same time, the issue of test (without cheats) vs real world emissions has been added to the mix just to confuse the original issue even more.

 

So why did a defeat device get installed on non U.S. vehicles when it wasn't needed?.

 

Because it's easier to have one piece of software that changes it's behaviour depending on the parameters it's given. This way any shared functionally can be developed and tested once rather than twice, reducing R&D costs. It will also make it easier and cheaper to maintain as if (when) there is an issue in a shared function it can be fixed in one place rather than many.

 

Think about Windows as an example, there is so much code that isn't used on the majority of computers yet every computer has it. If there were a bug in any part of the code then all computers would be updated to fix/remove it.

If the code really was inactive in EU cars, and VW knew they could prove this, they wouldn't have had to 'fess-up' to the cars being affected, would they?

So why did a defeat device get installed on non U.S. vehicles when it wasn't needed?.

After all, if it's that easy to correct, why wasn't that what we originally got.......or am I again missing something obvious?.

 

Who knows. Maybe just legacy from the US.

 

I have a Passat with 2.0TDi EA189 that does not have the Bosch ECU in question.

 

On the V5 the NOx emission is listed as 0.116g/km which is obviously well below the 0.180g/km Euro 5 limit.

 

Lee

If it's as Lee says

Yippee

It sounds too easy though but I certainly want to be proved wrong.

Who knows. Maybe just legacy from the US.

 

I have a Passat with 2.0TDi EA189 that does not have the Bosch ECU in question.

 

On the V5 the NOx emission is listed as 0.116g/km which is obviously well below the 0.180g/km Euro 5 limit.

 

Lee

So we get to keep our economy/performance?

So we get to keep our economy/performance?

 

Possibly and hopefully - we won't know for certain until the 'fix' is released into the wild and tested independently.

Blind acceptance is ALWAYS an option.

Being forewarned is one also.......when it comes to your 'rights' that is.

When they write to you will you obediently oblige?

 

What "blind acceptance"? Until we KNOW what the "fix" is I am accepting nothing.

Yes, forewarned is fine, but since we have had NO official statement from VAG as to what the "fix" is going to be conjecture is totally pointless.

When they write to me with a complete explanation of what the "fix" is I shall consider the options.

 

Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote!!

Possibly and hopefully - we won't know for certain until the 'fix' is released into the wild and tested independently.

And that's what I expect BEFORE I accept their 'offer'.

Quite!!

 

 

I'm still trying to work out why you keep mentioning this "Unfollow" button? Not something I have ever seen

It's on my Chrome iPad version

 

And yes, according to SUK my car is one of those affected, but I am not worried about it.

What will be will be.

Really?

If the code really was inactive in EU cars, and VW knew they could prove this, they wouldn't have had to 'fess-up' to the cars being affected, would they?

I think they would have to admit the software was there, otherwise when it was discovered, even if inactive or never used it would still damage reputation.

That's why perhaps the only impact will be no impact at all, but what we should be seeking is more technical detail, or it's always going to be speculation. I've no idea how source code for an ECU is constructed, compiled or executed, but the same principles will apply as in other software development.

Question is whether any source code still exists that anyone will ever find.... Or be able to identify. It's quite possible that all the evidence of the development has been destroyed once the software in question was released to manufacturing.

I expect the vastness of the debacle means we will never find out unless someone involved in the actual software development comes clean...

So we get to keep our economy/performance?

 

Are the engines that don't use the Bosch ECU any less powerfull? 

 

The Euro 5 tests only test the cars at low throttle and low rpm so with no change to hardware there's no reason a new map should throttle back the engine at higher throttle settings.

 

So the question is can the engines retain drive ability and response at light throttle setting and low rpm? But EA189's without the cheat ECU's are fine.

 

Lee