Diesel engines fix recall

[tom74]

Gents, my last post may have come across as a bit hot headed or arrogant. It wasn't meant as such and agree completely, Skoda are simply carrying out instruction.

However, I feel my point still stands in the long journey to have it re-remapped is a huge inconvenience to me, not that VW will care.

What I would like to ask is, has anyone had a CR170 remapped 'before' this update/fix letter?

Do I have to request that they don't carry out the fix as per suggestion? Like I need a proof of refusal or something like if I ever come to sell it?

Only said friend again has quoted "Your car is already modified from standard with a remap - do nothing and ignore the letter".

Could someone kindly elaborate.

I had a remap done but not a fix and im confused too :(

[REH17]

Interesting reading the comments from folks having had the update. I too can relate.

 

Car is being remapped next week, for better fuel and performance.  In my opinion the car has changed alot since the update, feels less power, having to drop gears to overtake, and then runs out of puff way too early and makes a hell of a noise.

 

Either way, the box has been ticked for the update as far as Skoda are concerned (who were not really interested when I questioned the above issues), will be interesting to see what eventually comes of it.

 

Thanks to the guy who put the graph up, massive help understanding it all

 

Stay safe guys

[Grousebeater]

Has anyone had a negative result from the emissions recall? I have just received my recall letter to have my L&K 170 4x4 Yeti's emissions software removed, replaced or whatever they plan to do and I'm considering a rolling road bhp test before and after the fix to see if there's any significant loss in bhp or torque. Has any one else considered this or had it done?

[CWARD]

Try reading this thread or having a search of the internet. 

[silver1011]

Has anyone had a negative result from the emissions recall? I have just received my recall letter to have my L&K 170 4x4 Yeti's emissions software removed, replaced or whatever they plan to do and I'm considering a rolling road bhp test before and after the fix to see if there's any significant loss in bhp or torque. Has any one else considered this or had it done?

 

Just don't get the recall done, how many more posts do we need on here of people saying their car has changed for the worse before people finally get the message?

 

The recall isn't compulsory, you simply remind the dealer when you hand over the keys you don't want it doing. If you want additional reassurances then ask for the form and sign it...

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/403828-just-refused-the-vag-emissions-recall/

 

If the car is running fine now why risk it? The recall isn't going to magically improve the car, the only risk is its going to get worse.

 

Don't. Do. It.

Edited 4 January, 2017 by silver1011

[silver1011]

Hi, im in the same situation, can you please advise if the fix has been done and if you have notice any changes to your car performance? Regards

 

Why would you not mention it to them?

 

Skoda won't reverse the remap, once it is done it is too late.

 

You need to make your mind up before you drop the car off.

[chimaera]

The remap shown in post 95 actually shows a drop in peak power and torque below about 2200 rev/min. So I'm not sure how it could feel more powerful below that point. It's possible the remap has adjusted the accelerator pedal mapping so a higher percentage of full power is available at a given pedal position: this will make the car _feel_ quicker without it actually having more power because it'll respond earlier to the pedal.

 

If someone who's had the update done has VCDS, I'd be curious to see if this mod works on the EA189 now: http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/408714-improve-throttle-response-superb-125tdi-4x4-3t/

[chimaera]

Gents, my last post may have come across as a bit hot headed or arrogant. It wasn't meant as such and agree completely, Skoda are simply carrying out instruction.

However, I feel my point still stands in the long journey to have it re-remapped is a huge inconvenience to me, not that VW will care.

What I would like to ask is, has anyone had a CR170 remapped 'before' this update/fix letter?

Do I have to request that they don't carry out the fix as per suggestion? Like I need a proof of refusal or something like if I ever come to sell it?

Only said friend again has quoted "Your car is already modified from standard with a remap - do nothing and ignore the letter".

Could someone kindly elaborate.

In the bulletin sent out to dealers, one of the things they're required to do is ask if the car has been modified/remapped. Customers are entitled to opt out of the update unless this is illegal in their country. If they opt out, they can sign a waiver to not have it applied and that is returned to Skoda HQ.

[Ootohere]

In the EU anyone can opt out and sign nothing as the EU have not made anyone have to do anything other than the VW Group carry out Voluntary Recalls.

 

VW got the approval for the removal of defeat devices and the new engine management and software or software & hardware.

 

Its a total balls up and the quicker that the various governments and agencies make 'Official Statements' and the VW are better in communications with Customer / Owners 

then 'insiders information' as to what Dealerships were told needs taken with a pinch of salt.

Ar53 & Elbow is order of the day.

[chimaera]

In the EU anyone can opt out and sign nothing as the EU have not made anyone have to do anything other than the VW Group carry out Voluntary Recalls.

Individual jurisdictions can and have made it compulsory. France is one that I'm aware of, there may well be others.

[Ootohere]

Has France really made having the VW Group Fix carried out on French Registered Vehicles Compulsory? 

What Compensation are the VW Group having to pay Owners of Vehicles for having to take vehicles in?

[chimaera]

Has France really made having the VW Group Fix carried out on French Registered Vehicles Compulsory? 

What Compensation are the VW Group having to pay Owners of Vehicles for having to take vehicles in?

I'm struggling to find the reference right now and haven't the time to do a detailed search. Maybe later tomorrow.

 

In any case, the EU or any of its member states would be within their rights to require this to be done since the vehicles obtained their type approval illegitimately. In other words, the affected cars are technically no longer type approved for use on EU roads. Compulsory application of the update remains an option for authorities if the manufacturer drags its heels on implementation. It remains to be seen where that would leave owners.

[Ootohere]

There are those in France that have Yetis and posted in the Yeti Section of this forum and are not having the Fix if i read them correctly.

 

The EU Commission is saying they are taking to court 7 EU Countries that have not done enough against VW.

We will see how that works out.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-38247779

Edited 4 January, 2017 by Offski

[chimaera]

EU law remains that cars must be type approved to be used on the roads here. If the type approval is invalid because of the emissions defeat device, then the cars are not legal. The EU and its member states are legitimately entitled to take steps to rectify that.

 

I've seen other reports on that investigation: seems it comes back to governments turning a blind eye to type approval shenanigans.

[Ootohere]

& UK passing legislation on tighter MOT's and no DPF Removal or infringements of Construction & Use.

Yet vehicles are modified away from EU Type Approval / Factory Spec.

Exhausts, wheels / tyres, Decats, Remapped or engine transplants without the VED class changed, Off Road only parts used on road and openly sold and the vehicles are legally 

on the road if 'Modifications are declared for insurance purposes / MOT issued which just looks for minimum safety requirements as a vehicle is presented.'.

 

If Type Approval was illegally achieved by the VW Group Brands on Euro 5 Emission TDI Engine vehicles then VW must of broken the law that covers that to make them illegal, 

some how VW seem to be saying they did nothing illegal.

Edited 5 January, 2017 by Offski

[chimaera]

Aftermarket modifications are a matter between the individual and government and are a small percentage of the automotive market/fleet. Chasing them is time consuming and overall minimally effective.

 

Manufacturers dodging type approval involves potentially millions of vehicles and is relatively straightforward for governments to do.

 

And who is honestly going to admit they've broken the law: better to claim innocence until the other party proves otherwise. Legal practice in these parts assumes innocence until proven otherwise also.

[Ootohere]

Type Approval remaining for a car to be legal in Ireland i take it you mean in post #164

?

So do all cars with the Defeat Device in the Republic of Ireland have to go in to have the defeat device removed and the new engine Mapping 

or go off the road?

What compensation are Owners in Ireland getting from VW / Skoda / Audi / Seat?

 

 

VW finally admitted to 11 million vehicles with Defeat Devices and keep getting caught on more, but say they did nothing illegal. So they admitted something.

Pay fines, pay compensation in the USA and make promises and pledges.

 

The sentencing of the Engineer in the USA is being delayed as Investigation Continue in the USA into the VW Group.

I keep waiting to here the name Stafan Jacoby mentioned in relation to VW & the Scandal seeing as he headed VW in the USA 2007-2010,

then went to Volvo then to GM Global.

Nobody knows anything according to the VW Group Board and Senior Management past and present.

Edited 5 January, 2017 by Offski

[LordRaiden84]

I had a remap done but not a fix and im confused too :(

 

Mate, seriously, if you haven't seen already from the amount of posts and warnings, DO NOT get the bloody software fix done!!

 

As Silver says, you really need to make your mind up but you'd be a fool to drop it off and then post on here like a lot of people that your car is down on power. I am not getting the fix done as I'm currently running a Shark Performance stage 1 and tbh, the mid range punch is lovely as well as general power. Absolutely no problems overtaking, doesn't struggle on hills etc etc so I'm keeping it as is. Why on earth would I want to sacrifice that?

 

It would be completely stupid to have it reversed to what could be potentially worse than what it was BEFORE I got it remapped.

[Dave3283]

Thought I would update as someone who has had the Emissions Fix done.

 

Just for reference My Car is a 2010 2.0tdi CR 170 VRS with 66000 miles on the clock.

This was carried out on the 29th of December and since then I have driven just over 200 miles with town driving and motorway/duel carriage way driving, basically my usual commute to work and back plus pottering to the shops ETC.

I can honestly say I cannot see or feel any difference in the car prior to the Fix or after, the MPG ( only going off the Maxidot computer as I am half way through a full tank, I will check this again on my next fill up and compare to my last full tank prior to the fix) has not changed showing an average of 47mpg.

The car feels no faster or slower and climbing the one hill that is on my way to work there is no change, I don't have to drop down any gears.

 

Now I only got the emissions Fix done as a tick in the box exercise on Skoda/VAG computers with the full intention that the car is being remapped later this year.

Had I received any ill effects from the Fix The car would be going for a remap ASAP.

My Advice would be if you have had the car remapped ( Pulman Skoda where mine was done did ask when I booked in if it was ) as others have said do not touch the Fix with a barge pole.

If like me you have not had the car remapped yet, want a tick in the box and are intending on having your car remapped afterwards then I cannot see the harm as If you see any ill effects the remap should cure them.
 

I will say that if I was not intending on remapping my car I personally would not have risked the fix as there are to many people that are having issues and not enough that are not.

 

[26DIPP]

After the comments on France and compulsory EA189 VW updates I searched for the german stance on this.

The KBA has ordered VW to send out recalls. It has not made the software update compulsory ...... yet, but there seems to be talk about implications for their TÜV and type approval, but nothing decided yet. Customers' details who decline the update are required to be sent to the KBA by VAG.

Some motoring organisations in Germany, Switzerland and Austria (ADAC, ÖAMTC, TSC and car magazines) have run tests with cars before and after the update and have found a slight deterioration in consumption figures but no change in driveability - Amarok, Golf, A4 - but also an improvement in fuel consumption - VW Passat. So the jury is out. On the whole the EA189 WITH "defeat device" still seems cleaner and has lower true emissions / fuel consumption figures than some other honest manufacturers.

[Ecomatt]

I think a lot of the issue is once the ecu has been reset it has to re learn and adjust. People are just expecting it to work as it did before. I also bet part of the update is new throttle map so you have to push the pedal further to get more power, where as a short prod at the pedal would normally get the same result before.

[Ootohere]

re post #170.

It would be good to see any magazine that has tested vehicles with the Defeat Device Pre The Fix & Post the Fix test vehicles that have not had a Air Filter or Fuel Filter changed for 40,000 miles and the Oil & Filter not changed for 18,000 mles before a major service and again after and see those results.

[chimaera]

Type Approval remaining for a car to be legal in Ireland i take it you mean in post #164?

No, I mean the EU. The EU operates whole-vehicle type approval for all member states, with individual states allowed to adopt additional local requirements to suit things like driving on the left, extreme climates, etc. Member states don't get to opt out of the EU standard: emissions is part of that standard.

 

Type approval can be gained in any of the 27 member states where suitable testing facilities operate to cover all member states. If you look at the 'E' or 'e' markings on the different bits of your car, you'll see a little number with it: that number tells you what country that part was approved in.

 

For now it appears the EU is taking a softly-softly approach on implementation of the update. Encourage the manufacturer to get the cars fixed rather than hit them over the head with fines or other legal sanctions. It's a pretty common thing when widespread legal issues happen. Give people space to voluntarily correct the issue without penalty. I would be willing to bet that regulatory bodies are keeping an eye on the voluntary uptake on the fix and if we get another year or so down the line with a significant level of non-compliance then we will probably see formal sanctions against VAG coming into force. I don't think we'll see owners penalised, but the chances of being compensated if the update becomes compulsory might be slim.

 

Be under no illusions here: the goal from the EU is compliance with the legal requirements it has set and that member states have agreed to adopt.

 

re post #170.

It would be good to see any magazine that has tested vehicles with the Defeat Device Pre The Fix & Post the Fix test vehicles that have not had a Air Filter or Fuel Filter changed for 40,000 miles and the Oil & Filter not changed for 18,000 mles before a major service and again after and see those results.

 

What's the point? If an owner hasn't bothered their arse to maintain their vehicle properly they deserve whatever problems they get.

[chimaera]

Also, never forget that most comments on an issue on the internet are going to be complaints. http://www.marketingcharts.com/online/bad-customer-service-interactions-more-likely-to-be-shared-than-good-ones-28628/

[Ootohere]

Be sure to read most comments on this subject and they are questions, they are peoples concerns and not complaints, 

complaints can not come from those that have nothing to complain about if the have had no 'Recall Actions done', 

so there are 11 million opportunities for the VW Group to do recall actions on the Defeat Device Vehicles and out of how many get done then they can survey how the owners feel.

 

Remember how many are actually the Property of VW, VW Finance & Leasing Companies VW owned and have now sold.

Many of the last vehicles with the Defeat Device will be Owned ultimately by the VW Group various Financial Institutions & Companies and VW will not be making complaints about VW.

 

As to the US, Owners there are being well compensated for vehicles re-purchased or for those that can have Recall Actions carried out.

Anyone in the EU that had to take a vehicle on can charge their hourly rate, their expenses and any proven loses once Governments take actions on the VW Group on behalf of Owners.

 

PS

Why should testing be done on badly serviced vehicles getting serviced properly, as well as those getting The Fix?

For the very reason that testing should be done on Pre & Post Fix, because many that drive vehicles never know how well or poorly they are until they really 

are not going well.

Some vehicles getting The fix might well perform better than previously just as many do after 'Software Updates' that the VW Group do after experience of Engines that have Issues.

 

All are not Anti-Fix & removal of Defeat Devices just of the Deceit & Dishonesty and Media Games that VW Group play.

The Internet catches the lies and cheating and just 3 Monkeys / Spin that VW Employ.

They got anyway for decade with.

'If everything was as reliable as a Volkswagen'.  It was a lie then and a lie now.

 

Vorsprung Durch Technik.   Just pretend you have the Technological Advances & tell the public what sound plausible.

Edited 8 January, 2017 by Offski