Diesel engine software update! Yes or No?

[SuperbTWM]

I chose not to have the 'fix' applied because I was afraid they were going to ruin my car. MPG, power delivery, increased flat spots due to EGR etc. etc.

[yesman]

7 minutes ago, SuperbTWM said:

I chose not to have the 'fix' applied because I was afraid they were going to ruin my car. MPG, power delivery, increased flat spots due to EGR etc. etc.

I'm actually amazed at how many have chose not to have it done! Also find this very reassuring that I'm doing the right thing for the same reasons! Cheers

[yesman]

Also found this just now on Honest John which is an interesting read!

 

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/volkswagen-emissions-scandal/8-reports-of-volkswagen-tiguans-losing-power-after-ea189-emissions-fix/

[chimaera]

Some of the big European car owners clubs (ADAC, ÖAMTC, etc) have done independent testing on the update and found that it does exactly what VW said it would: reduce NOx emissions without affecting power or economy. I've posted links in some of the other threads or you'll find them easily enough on Google.

 

I'll be getting mine done at the next service.

[Ootohere]

Does it reduce NoX emissions when being driven on the road?  Where does VW say that please, any links?

http://skodaforhandlere.no/globalassets/20160627-oamtc_rk_27062016_en.pdf

 

PS

The ADAC were the ones that rigged the 'Car of the year awards' as i remember.

http://thelocal.de/20140120/adac-boss-cooks-car-award-votes

Edited 6 February, 2017 by Offski

[Danny 57]

2 hours ago, jafo said:

Ok, but regens can occur more often also because of the age/mileage - how old is your car and what mileage - or bad oil - was your car serviced when fix was applied? And few other reasons so you can't be 100% sure that the fix is the main reason

Jafo you are right I cannot be 100% sure but as I do work in the M&E sector for over 30 years and before that in the electrical arena for over ten years I do understand dynamics whether they be thermal, (hydraulic or air) poor maintenance, tyre pressures and so on. My car will be five years old in April and is at 64500 miles. All servicing has been at a main dealer using the correct, 507 grade of oil, yes the change was at a service interval at just over 56000 miles, third service. As I said earlier I do know my car and did wonder whether I was inclined to notice the regens because of the hullabaloo but no it is definitely happening more. I was happy to have the "fix" as I did not believe it would make any difference but the regens became more noticeable with the near 1000rpm as an indication were more prevalent as prior to this I would hardly ever have a regen occurring towards the end of a journey to work, again as I said earlier a journey of 25 plus miles mostly motorway.

Hopefully you can now accept that I have based my thoughts on a bit more than it might be or could be. I base most things on numbers/facts so I am about 99.9% confident. One must always allow that bit of "just in case".

 

No offence meant in my lengthy reply as I do understand where you are coming from.

Edited 6 February, 2017 by Danny 57

[drefaldwyn]

It's a NO from me too. I always use a trusted VAG specialist independent for servicing etc. and he says emphatically "Don't do it!"

 

Dave

[lichfielddriver]

Thoughts of Chairman Moi

 

If the "cheat" only kicks in (so i read) when the vehicle is under no load, revved for 2+ minutes and the steering doesnt move (i.e. a totally alien situation), and the cheat only reduces the diesel input to the pump/engine, why should removing that instruction bugger up anything?...................

[Danny 57]

52 minutes ago, lichfielddriver said:

Thoughts of Chairman Moi

 

If the "cheat" only kicks in (so i read) when the vehicle is under no load, revved for 2+ minutes and the steering doesnt move (i.e. a totally alien situation), and the cheat only reduces the diesel input to the pump/engine, why should removing that instruction bugger up anything?...................

 

Those were exactly my thoughts too and the reason why I had the "fix" done.

[chimaera]

1 hour ago, lichfielddriver said:

Thoughts of Chairman Moi

 

If the "cheat" only kicks in (so i read) when the vehicle is under no load, revved for 2+ minutes and the steering doesnt move (i.e. a totally alien situation), and the cheat only reduces the diesel input to the pump/engine, why should removing that instruction bugger up anything?...................

Because it's a lot more complicated than that. It's been discussed at length on other threads.

[langers2k]

1 hour ago, lichfielddriver said:

Thoughts of Chairman Moi

 

If the "cheat" only kicks in (so i read) when the vehicle is under no load, revved for 2+ minutes and the steering doesnt move (i.e. a totally alien situation), and the cheat only reduces the diesel input to the pump/engine, why should removing that instruction bugger up anything?...................

 

They had to reduce the non-cheat emissions to make the vehicle compliant therefore effecting every day driving.

[yesman]

2 hours ago, lichfielddriver said:

Thoughts of Chairman Moi

 

If the "cheat" only kicks in (so i read) when the vehicle is under no load, revved for 2+ minutes and the steering doesnt move (i.e. a totally alien situation), and the cheat only reduces the diesel input to the pump/engine, why should removing that instruction bugger up anything?...................

They aren't just removing the cheat, if they just removed the cheat the cars would never pass an MOT test again! they are remapping the engine's diesel and air settings completely to get it to run cleaner not just in the test but day to day use! The cheat was designed to only kick in when the car is being emission tested during an MOT because in real world everyday use when tested they couldn't get the emissions low enough that would have passed the emissions test! So the cheat looks for certain conditions that are used in an MOT emissions test and changes the way the engine runs to a non standard program that can't be used for normal use but will give the impression of low emissions to make the engines look much cleaner than they actually are! VAG were ordered by the government's around the world to put a fix on the cars so the real use emissions matched the test emissions without cheating! VAG have rolled out this update claiming that it does as requested but without any consequences! Now call me a cynic but being an Engineer I can't believe something like this can be changed without any consequences and I believe there have been enough documentated problems to question VAG's promises! You also have to ask if all it takes is a software upgrade to get the required results without affecting the engine and it's economy why wasn't it installed from the production!

Edited 7 February, 2017 by yesman

[chimaera]

A lot of it is down to advances in CFD and other modelling techniques allowing better simulation of injection and combustion events. This would let them refine injector and EGR control quite a lot.

[BoxerBoy]

If I get invited to a firm appointment to do the update, then I'll get it done. Based on the woolly letters I've received so far (none for a while now) I'm not holding out any hope for a date in the near future.

 

In the absence of the above, I will be selling the car on and letting the new owner decide.

[psimon]

I am surprised that the administrator has not toned down some of the needlessly aggressive comments from forum members? We all have different levels of expertise and understanding so seek differing views and experiences.I find this a good and helpful forum  and it would be a pity if it became less effective/helpful.

Edited 8 February, 2017 by psimon

[bigjohn]

A colleague at work is regretting having his VW Golf 1.6 bluemotion updated. He says the economy is unaffected but it's no longer a refined car being a lot noisier and has a weird noise on the over-run. 

 

He isn't happy!

 

 

[silver1011]

On 2/6/2017 at 22:53, chimaera said:

Some of the big European car owners clubs (ADAC, ÖAMTC, etc) have done independent testing on the update and found that it does exactly what VW said it would: reduce NOx emissions without affecting power or economy. I've posted links in some of the other threads or you'll find them easily enough on Google.

 

I'll be getting mine done at the next service.

 

But what they can't tell you is the effects on durability, reliability and ultimately longevity.

 

There has to be a sacrifice otherwise VAG would have done this from day one and avoided the multi-billion dollar hole in their bottom line.

[silver1011]

There is no reason to have the update done.

 

Only if reducing the emissions from your car is your number one priority would you do it.

 

If reliability, performance, fuel economy and refinement rank above emissions then it makes absolutely no sense at all. 

[chimaera]

They mostly avoided it at the time because they didn't want to pay to licence adblue technology from Mercedes. It was a cheap solution to the problem as they saw it: why spend millions on engineering time if you can brush it under the carpet.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-13/vw-pulled-out-of-daimler-deal-before-embarking-on-diesel-cheat

 

Ferdinand Piech is firmly pointing the finger at Martin Winterkorn as the person responsible: some sources suspect this is the reason he fought with Winterkorn in 2015.

 

 

[Nathanio]

On 07/02/2017 at 14:04, chimaera said:

A lot of it is down to advances in CFD and other modelling techniques allowing better simulation of injection and combustion events. This would let them refine injector and EGR control quite a lot.

 

This x alot. 

 

The advances in CFD modelling in the last 6-7 years has been staggering. At my previous firm we used it extensively and the difference from when we first used it and to when I left was incredible. The resolution has come on leaps and bounds. This allows for more accurate simulations. 

Plus someone new might have a better way of doing something, this combined with better CFD should yield improved results. 

 

I'm not suggesting there will not be a change but the amount they now know compared to before will make the differences far smaller. 

[peterposh]

On 06/02/2017 at 22:53, chimaera said:

 

Ive had one car done and am leaving the others

Edited 12 February, 2017 by peterposh

[stroppyjock]

Sadly read this AFTER getting my 2010 skoda superb estate tdi 170 (4x4)software done at the skoda dealer! first impressions no difference!

HOWEVER on a recent run from Perth -Glasgow and back (120 odd miles) my mpg went down to 40mpg from a normal 49/50 mpg at a steady 70mph (on cruise control)

I will be towing my caravan a couple of hundred miles shortly so will update you on fuel consumption and performance after the trip!

Really ****ed off with the 10mpg reduction!

Edited 27 February, 2017 by stroppyjock
Omitted 4x4

[chimaera]

How did you check your fuel economy? MFD or brim-brim?

 

The MFD is never accurate on VAG cars: it's usually optimistic by about 10-15 % IME. The MFD gets data for calculating fuel economy from the ECU and any change to the ECU can affect the readouts it gives.

From what has been said about the update, it's a pretty comprehensive change to the ECU map so it's quite likely the data being fed to the MFD has changed and if you're basing your economy from that you could be getting a spurious reading.

[Ootohere]

^^^^ Love it, the biggest again car manufacturer in the world has had to come up with a fix for the 11 million fitted with defeat devices that can get 'New Engine Management'. 

There will be no changes to power or economy, but maybe the Computers Fuel read outs will get co-cked up.

 

Now the Head of VW just needs to put that in the 'Press Announcement' and Paul Willis VW UK's CEO can tell that tale to the UK's Transport Select Committee and repeat how 20,000 VW Group vehicles a week are getting 'The Fix'. 

 

The beauty of the Perth to Glasgow journey is that the first 23 miles out of Perth and coming back is a Average Speed Camera Area, 

and anyone driving it regularly and that fuels their vehicle knows pretty well how the car will drive in various weathers and how much fuel they need to buy.

Edited 27 February, 2017 by Awayoffski

[psycholist]

I found my MFD was consistently between 7 and 10% optimistic when I compared its figures to brim to brim tests after I first bought it. Then I stopped bothering as I was refuelling about as often as the previous car but had more refinement, more space, more toys and more power. If I drive for out and out economy I can easily get it, but if that was the top priority I'd have got a greenline.