Karoq software update. Progress report.

[Apprentice]

Went to the big city today a 150ish mile round trip must say the Karoq ran sweet, no problem with hesitation/no power/dead spot when using low revs in second gear and entering onto a roundabout without stopping dead at the white lines.

 

Could be my imagination but there seems to be less initial grunt in 4th gear post update and the revs don't seem to drop so quick when you take your foot off the throttle, as I said could just be me.

 

The trip today was mostly driven on A class roads with a small number of miles driven in and around the city and on getting home the info on the display said the mpg was 45.

Still a good number of miles short of the SUK 600 post update advisory but what is the ECU learning that it didn't know before?    

[shyVRS245]

Not had the update and probably won't get it done as the jerkiness is less frequent as the miles increase. Today on the commute it averaged 57.2mpg and long term over the last 1,300 miles average is 50.2mpg. Current mileage stands at 15,500 miles.

[Ootohere]

@Apprentice

If your car / ECU's were as 'Simply Clever' as Skoda employees are making out it would have leaned by now they are 'Bull sh-itters'.

[Stevieweevie]

On 14/05/2019 at 21:01, Apprentice said:

Could be my imagination but there seems to be less initial grunt in 4th gear post update and the revs don't seem to drop so quick when you take your foot off the throttle, as I said could just be me.

 

I don't think it's just you. This is the sort of thing I was alluding to in my reply post-update in that that there baseline for revs for any particular gear feels higher. For me I've noticed it most in first where the revs won't drop off and assumed that this is their way of lessening the judder because it seemed before that if you kept the revs high you'd pretty much avoid it. So the update is keeping more of the revs there in an effort to negate or at least gloss over the rev range where there's kangarooing.

 

Maybe that has a knock-on effect with the other gears as well. In normal mode my Karoq feels like it's holding onto the gears longer before it's telling me to shift up as well, but that could be the 4 days I spent in the 5-speed 1L Fabia, which by comparison has an almost ridiculously short gear ratio and which tells you to shift into fifth @ 30MPH.

[Nick3000]

Had the software update update carried out after experiencing the car dying at a junction only four days after picking it up, before this happened I was also experiencing the kangarooing effect, but was unsure how much of this was down to me getting used to a new car and driving a petrol for the first time in 15 years, or whether there was something wrong, actually glad I did have the power failure at the junction, although a bit unnerving, as it confirmed it wasn't just my imagination.

 

The dealers were very good, when I went in they were aware of the issue, no need to demonstrate and confirmed there was an update available, which was primarily to deal with what Skoda refer to as the 'hesitation' at junctions and that the update 'should' also improve the first gear issue. Happy to say that since the update the car is a lot smoother in first gear, though could be smoother and so far haven't experienced any loss of power at junctions, though may be too early to be certain that this is resolved, I guess only time and cold weather will confirm this.

 

I too was told that the car needs to do about 600 miles for the ECU to adapt and that it should improve after this.

[RichardKE]

Given that there are now 3 people, including myself, who've reported power failure at junctions / roundabouts (and we're probably a small fraction of those experiencing the issue who have gone public on this forum), how long is it going to be before someone has a serious accident or there's a fatality due to this engine 'hesitation'? Is it not something that can be raised more officially with DVLA / VOSA / Trading Standards and how?

[TheRealExile]

They know it's serious or they wouldn't still be forking out for Hire Car's for us MY 18 owners, I'd urge anyone with the issue to get on to Skoda UK as it is a dangerous issue. I think a few had raised it with the DVSA but as soon as Skoda mentioned the fix for MY19 they closed the case (please correct me if anyone still has an open case)

 

If we don't have an open case for MY18 then I'm happy to open one, I feel like I have been in this hire car for a long time now and I want the car I chose back and in working order please.....I don't care if you have to make changes to the setup just please get on with it!!! 

Edited 17 May, 2019 by TheRealExile
can't spell

[StEdmund]

10 hours ago, RichardKE said:

Given that there are now 3 people, including myself, who've reported power failure at junctions / roundabouts (and we're probably a small fraction of those experiencing the issue who have gone public on this forum), how long is it going to be before someone has a serious accident or there's a fatality due to this engine 'hesitation'? Is it not something that can be raised more officially with DVLA / VOSA / Trading Standards and how?

 

Some of us contacted the DVSA back in January* - there's no harm in your doing the same. I don't think that enough people have made enough noise, whilst VAG are doing a splendid job of keeping it out of the media. Contact link for the DVSA is here. https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect

* see around p49 of the long 1st gear issues thread

 

Whilst DVSA was initially happy to be told by VAG that 'A software fix was now available' ........ they have now been made aware that 'the fix' was only applicable to certain vin nos. I believe that this is what is known as 'economy with the truth'.......... VAG has something of a reputation for it.

 

 

[Salp]

It is pleasing to hear some positive news regarding this issue, and i hope this may be the first signs of progress across the range.  My 67 plate Octavia has been left with the dealer until fixed.

 

The dealer did mention to me about an update which requires a 500 mile running in period.

 

Excuse my lack of technical knowledge, but if the ECU takes 500 + miles to learn your driving style, what happens when you share the car, like so many, with other members of household?  Wouldn't that be counter productive, and give the ECU learning difficulties.

[JakeB1941]

My thoughts exactly as my wife does almost the same mileage as I do. Cannot see how you measure and adjust an average in these circumstances but hey ho I'm not a software engineer. ;-D

[Hairball]

I have just been informed that my factory ordered car has arrived at the dealership. I mentioned the software update so they will hopefully install it (unless it's been pulled, lost, misplaced, self destructed in 5 seconds should I choose to accept it,* updated or eaten by the ravenous Bugblatter beast of Traal**) ) before I pick up the car to save me a return visit.

 

*Mission impossible

**Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"

[Breezy_Pete]

1 hour ago, Salp said:

It is pleasing to hear some positive news regarding this issue, and i hope this may be the first signs of progress across the range.  My 67 plate Octavia has been left with the dealer until fixed.

 

The dealer did mention to me about an update which requires a 500 mile running in period.

 

Excuse my lack of technical knowledge, but if the ECU takes 500 + miles to learn your driving style, what happens when you share the car, like so many, with other members of household?  Wouldn't that be counter productive, and give the ECU learning difficulties.

I think that 'learning driving style' stuff is pure fiction.

[Apprentice]

@ Steevieweevie

Post update, when you now start the 1.5 TSI engine from cold does it idle/tick over at a higher rev count even if only for 20-30 seconds than before, after the update my Karoq's engine's idle/tickover speed from cold is 1250rpm pre-update it was 1000rpm, so the engine now idles at 1250rpm for 30-40 seconds before dropping to 1000rpm for a minute or so then drops again to idle at 750rpm.

Do you notice any similar changes?

 

Edited 17 May, 2019 by Apprentice
typo

[Ootohere]

Some told 600 miles, then 500 and that could be km not miles.

It is BS from Skoda / VW.  

God help those getting a Ex Demo that a dealership got in and still needed a Software Update and then 3,000 miles covered by anyone and everyone before they get their little HMRC / Tax payer paid for perk.

[JakeB1941]

Funny enough having just applied your findings to my Karoq they are exactly the same! Unforetunately I have not got a clue as to what they were before the update. 

[Jezza4567]

Got my update this week and so far so good. The car has not bogged down pulling away in 1st or 2nd - feels sportier. 😊

 

Still too early to tell if the kangarooing is fixed as it is too warm outside at the moment.

 

Fuel economy the same or even slightly better. 

[JohnCF]

On 17/05/2019 at 19:18, Skoffski said:

Some told 600 miles, then 500 and that could be km not miles.

It is BS from Skoda / VW.  

God help those getting a Ex Demo that a dealership got in and still needed a Software Update and then 3,000 miles covered by anyone and everyone before they get their little HMRC / Tax payer paid for perk.

Hi all,

 

I’ve been following these posts as Im also waiting for the update on my car. It’s a MY18 so still no date yet....

 

People have been talking about this 5/600 mile period for the update to become fully effective and there is some truth in this. It’s not so much the ecu learning the driving style more the ecu re-learning each individual engine after the update. Every component has a tolerance and when you put multiple components together you obviously then get very slight variations 

 from one engine to the next. This is what the ecu learns over a period of miles, for example there will be minute differences in injector duration from one engine to the next for a given speed and load.  The ecu will look at lambda readings and make these small changes.  So even although the same software update is carried out the control unit will still make small corrections unique to that engine. 

 

Ive worked as a vehicle tech for a long time and although the general perception is that dealer staff are all clueless and untrained that’s not completely fair. Just as with every job there are some really good people and then others who give everyone a bad name. 

[Ootohere]

@JohnCF

Are you a tech in the VW Group dealerships and involved in this fiasco with Skoda or the VW Group where owners / drivers have been getting played by VW?

 

Are you getting feed back from owners / drivers that have vehicles coming in for the Software Updates or those with vehicles sitting awaiting the updates?

 

Skoda UK / VW UK could simply put out written information to the registered keepers / owners what the issues are, what they are doing to resolve the issues, 

how an update will affect their vehicle, and what to expect and the contact details with VW UK / Skoda UK for them to give feed back to.

Problem being VW are not in the habit of committing in writing or even admitting to issues.

Then the Professional Staff at Branches and just employees in general telling Owners / Drivers that there is no issues that they are aware of will have distrust in the system.

 

Skoda, VW press releases are about positives, but sadly that's about it.

Explanations from Qualified and trained staff to customers / owners can safe months of Social Media and Forum threads and posts.

But then everyone is scared that that will catch them out in a court of law.

 

Safety Critical failing of vehicles and those involved in maintaining them and releasing them onto the public road should be concerning Skoda UK a bit more than it seems to be.

Edited 19 May, 2019 by Skoffski

[JohnCF]

Hi Skoffski,

 

I have in the past worked for one of the VW group companies but now take life easier at a small independent. 

 

Much of what you are saying I define agree with and by not communicating well either to customers or the dealer network they only make the situation worse. It’s pointless trying to cover up a problem in this day and age as a few clicks of a mouse  and anyone can soon find the truth.   It doesn’t surprise me though unfortunately.  

  I don’t really know how they could have signed this engine off as ready for production and it’s also difficult to understand how it’s taking so long to come up with a solution.  I’ve now  been waiting around a year for a solution for  my car. It’s actually a Golf but there is far more info and discussion on this forum than any other so hope it’s ok for me to add a few thoughts here . 

 

They haven’t helped themselves and being more open and honest would gain far more respect. Then then again are any of the other manufacturers so much better?  Vauxhall with the Zafira fires...Or BMW with total electrical failure.  In both those cases it took until people’s lives were endangered or in the case of BMW someone killed before any recall was carried out.  Even Toyota were slow to react a few years back with the sticking throttle pedals.

 

   It seems to be a culture thing with big corporations, they think they can get away with it !    Boeing I’m certain were well aware  the latest 737 Max  had a fundamental stability issue but rather than go back to the drawing board they  thought they could use software and a flight control system as a work around...Sadly many people have now paid for that decision with their lives. 

 

It it will continue to happen. Bonuses to be made and shareholders to please so corners get cut. 

[Stevieweevie]

On 17/05/2019 at 19:17, Apprentice said:

@ Steevieweevie

Post update, when you now start the 1.5 TSI engine from cold does it idle/tick over at a higher rev count even if only for 20-30 seconds than before, after the update my Karoq's engine's idle/tickover speed from cold is 1250rpm pre-update it was 1000rpm, so the engine now idles at 1250rpm for 30-40 seconds before dropping to 1000rpm for a minute or so then drops again to idle at 750rpm.

Do you notice any similar changes?

 

 

It sure feels like it’s idling with higher RPM than before. I will check tomorrow and see.

[Karock]

Booked my 1.5 petrol ( MY19) SEL in to the main dealer at Carlisle to have the ECU software update for hesitation in 2nd gear.

 

Surprise, surprise, they were not aware of any issue and want to do a diagnosis, will take several hours apparently.

 

Does anyone have a contact number for Skoda UK so I can ensure that the software patch is available to them.

 

I am unsure whether they really are not aware of the problems or are just playing dumb. Which ever, it hardly inspires confidence!

[Ootohere]

Get them to send in writing / email anything a call handler or communications manager says.

http://skoda.co.uk/about-us/contact-us

 

[JakeB1941]

The update is done under warranty so you should be able to use any other Skoda franchise if there are any not to distant. There is obviously no networking between these companies which does not give you much confidence in the system. My own garage seem to have been on top of this debacle since the fault manifested itself. I was contacted on the day the upgrade was made available end of March (28th) and it was applied on the 4th of April. Car has been okay since!

[Ootohere]

@JakeB1941

 

Where did you get the Information that the update is under warranty. 

Did you get that in some document from Skoda, or just told the bill will be covered, no charge?

 

Corporate Responsibility. Vehicles not fit for purpose in some cases, and potentially dangerous in some cases and positively dangerous in others.

 

Is it not going to be something that VW Group will have to fund because they built potentially dangerous vehicles, got type approval / certification 

and so far 'Authorities' like the DVSA  / DfT in the UK are not counting it as Safety Critical so allowing VW Group to do it's own thing.

 

I would want a VW Trust Buiding Measure declaration that they will not stop until owners vehicles are safe and fit for purpose now and into the future.

 

That will need them to be doing more than saying 'It is a Warranty issue covered for 2 years in some countries and 3 in the UK'. 

Edited 20 May, 2019 by Skoffski

[JakeB1941]

Job sheet.....