1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[anotherdownunder]

On 8/18/2017 at 22:37, TheClient said:

Yes, the images a few posts ago refer to the Mk3 TSI.  Not sure why they were specifically linked. The mk2 EA888 is similar though.  There is still has an inspection plug on the lower cover and you can count the teeth extended on the tensioner probably with an enlarged inspection mirror.. I can't remember off hand the number of teeth acceptable, I'm guessing 4 or 5.... There are some posts linking to the TPI's in this very thread, it's a very long thread to wade through though. Set aside 5 mins or so - maybe more!

As I get to know my Octi (2011 or 2012??) the camchain worries me. I have it booked in tomorrow for a check. In the meantime I found these (unsure if posted before?):

In Russia a lot of users have done a lot of investigation of similar engines.

One point I found interesting is they say VW et-alia changed the camchain from rollers to just links to either reduce noise or cost. They recommend checking the camchain every 50,000 km and they use VCDS initially to do this and if the results show the chain is stretching they visually inspect it. Not sure if this is Worldwide or just RUF.

 

http://vag-dealer.ru/articles/18_tfsi_chain_replacement (Google translate)

 

Using VCDS

 

 

 

If one has to change chains at 50,000 km then they're now no different from a belt. HTH.

[anotherdownunder]

On 8/14/2017 at 05:46, Awayoffski said:

^^^ Did he mention the World Wide Recall on the 7 Speed DSG / DQ200 which included Australia and might include yours as it is from 2009-2012

Synthetic Oil Changed to Mineral & a Software update?  

Was yours done or needing done.

This was Skoda New Zealand's 'Service Campaign / Recall Action'.

http://skoda.co.nz/news/dsg-service-campaign 

 

He mention a Recall software update and by saying not needing an oil change I assumed it has mineral oil in it. I will check. Thanks.

[anotherdownunder]

On 8/21/2017 at 20:47, anotherdownunder said:

 I have it booked in tomorrow for a check.

My camchain tensioner is not the latest but Brooks in Wodonga said it was still functional and not needing to be changed.

 

After running the computer diagnostic they said there were no problems, BUT, on the way home my wife said the Octi hesitated severely on acceleration and the a loud 'whooshing' noise came from under the bonnet on acceleration.

She was somewhat distraught by this and travelled home slowly.

I had a drive when she got home and, yes, upon acceleration under load, the whooshing noise (presumably the turbo) was very loud! It's hard to say the Octi accelerated faster since the noise was totally different to before the computer validation?

The test print-out never said 'changed this' so I don't know what caused it.

Maybe in checking the tensioner a tech broke a turbo-pipe? I'll ask Brooks tomorrow and search for this loud 'whooshing' here and elsewhere.

[anotherdownunder]

13 hours ago, anotherdownunder said:

I'll ask Brooks tomorrow and search for this loud 'whooshing' here and elsewhere.

Brooks sent a techo out (some 40 km) who fixed the problem. It was a turbo pipe exiting into the intercooler that was not quite connected.

An exemplary example of Brooks Customer Service!!

I now know a little bit more about the Octi(y)!

[Rhodri]

Since my 1.8 TSI now has over 30K miles on the clock I am thinking more about the timing chain tensioner issue and what action to take.  I am wondering how many people there are out there in a similar situation who have not yet had a problem and taken no preventative action ?

Rather than spend the quoted 800 quid to get the tensioner etc. changed, I would like to find out the state of my current chain. Anyone out there successfully monitoring their chain / tensioner either by manual inspection or VCDS? Does anyone knows if cheaper VCDS alternatives such as Carista or ODBeleven can access and report the engine measured groups (93 is the relevant one I believe)?

[Kilowatt]

early 2010 1.8TSI CDAA engine, the chain tensioner failed at 45.000km.  First symptoms were some misfires, and later P0016 fault code+ difficult start.

No damage to the engine, and the repair was covered 50% by Skoda.

[anotherdownunder]

On 30 August 2017 at 00:16, Rhodri said:

Anyone out there successfully monitoring their chain / tensioner either by manual inspection or VCDS? Does anyone knows if cheaper VCDS alternatives such as Carista or ODBeleven can access and report the engine measured groups (93 is the relevant one I believe)?

Last week Brooks in Wodonga inspected our recently bought October 2012 CDAA 1.8TSI EA888, said tensioner was the original and was 'middling' in range. 109k on clock. I discussed the VCDS method but they preferred the manual inspection. Had no idea of history of it but brake-pads; tyres were new and battery original. (changed) Oil; water; brake-fluid tested o-k but air filters hadn't been changed. Just keeping an eye on oil as they said low oil and consumption is an indication of tensioner pending failure. 

[Rhodri]

If October 2012 good chance that you have latest tensioner based on below from another thread. Not heard of this one failing but someone may correct me.

 

06H 109 467N >> 26.04.2010

06H 109 467T      27.04.2010 >> 29.08.2011

06H 109 467AB    30.08.2011 >> 04.03.2012

06K 109  467K     05.03.2012 >>

[Rjg]

Can anyone help me confirm 100% the parts required for the job? 

 

I asked my local VW specialist to price up the work, expecting around £600-700 all in, but they've come back and said £1100. They quoted the parts as £700 then the labour at £400 (for 8hrs, which seems a bit long?) 

 

My understanding is:

 

06k 109 467AE tensioner

06k 109 467k tensioner

06h 109 158ad chain

06h 109 210ag cover

N 910 001 01 + 06h 103 483c + 06h 103 483c gaskets

 

Should come to £300 or so 

 

Are the various chain guides vital, or optional? 

[TheClient]

That is too high, they must be doing more than the main timing chain and timing chain tensioner and related ancillaries. Ask them for their parts listing?  Parts should come to around £300-350 from memory. Labour 5 or 6 hours I was charged.

 

The guides / rails ought to be done but are included in the parts total I refer, they are not expensive, just pieces of plastic.

 

You list the tensioner twice as AE and K revisions. K is the latest.  Not totally sure about the rest of your parts, the cover code looks right. Need to refer to previous posts with complete listings.  I'm sure I've posted several times before and others.  If you are really stuck I could pull invoices again.

[funex]

Update on exactly 6-year-old 60k miles Yeti 1.8TSI - engine failure back in June. Obviously out of warranty but felt a polite appeal apt and worth a try. 

Skoda customer relations tried closing the case twice. Kept on with it and eventually trailered car to retailer at SUK’s suggestion to properly diagnose what AA and independent engineer had already said.  Skoda workshop confirmed chain tensioner failure causing engine lock up thanks to valves and pistons colliding.  Remedy : complete new engine required at £5.1k. Informed SUK who confirmed nil contribution and proceeded to close the case - ‘final position’. Retailer and HQ now both fobbing us and themselves off by saying the other should be dealing with it. Absolutely hopeless and meanwhile I’ve got an unusable car needing repairs totalling more than its repaired value - basically a write off they say - bad luck. Gee thanks. In the week autoexpress gives yeti it’s No.1 used car award.  

Unless that is you got a lemon like ours. 

#drivenbybeingtotallyindifferent

#simplyrubbish

[TheClient]

Yes, usual stonewalling, point fingers, denial there is a problem. No fun for you at all.

 

You could try to source a donor engine from a wrecked car and then off load the car or have the tensioner replaced as a preventative measure and hold on to it ( highly advised if the donor is before mid 2012). Of course, wrecked car engines can be risky as you just don't know the condition before it was wrecked and once you've spent the money installing, it even returning it will cost you more money.........

 

So, have they actually closed the case now? You mention tried closing twice.

 

Up until 6 years, you would have been able to make a claim under the consumer rights act, previously sale of goods act against the selling dealer. Nothing to do with Skoda UK themselves, goodwill or manufacturer based warranty.   There would be some hoops to jump through if they refused and you had to lodge a court claim but if you already have a technical report confirming the tensioner failure that would be a good base to build from.

 

You would have to consider the case on it's merits before lodging court documents but even the threat or a pre action letter can sometimes obtain results. Fail that lodge court papers.

 

Did you purchase from new (in which case you are past the 6 yr limit) or did you purchase used from a dealer?

 

 

Edited 6 October, 2017 by TheClient

[clarky2]

On 05/10/2017 at 22:20, funex said:

Update on exactly 6-year-old 60k miles Yeti 1.8TSI - engine failure back in June. Obviously out of warranty but felt a polite appeal apt and worth a try. 

Skoda customer relations tried closing the case twice. Kept on with it and eventually trailered car to retailer at SUK’s suggestion to properly diagnose what AA and independent engineer had already said.  Skoda workshop confirmed chain tensioner failure causing engine lock up thanks to valves and pistons colliding.  Remedy : complete new engine required at £5.1k. Informed SUK who confirmed nil contribution and proceeded to close the case - ‘final position’. Retailer and HQ now both fobbing us and themselves off by saying the other should be dealing with it. Absolutely hopeless and meanwhile I’ve got an unusable car needing repairs totalling more than its repaired value - basically a write off they say - bad luck. Gee thanks. In the week autoexpress gives yeti it’s No.1 used car award.  

Unless that is you got a lemon like ours. 

#drivenbybeingtotallyindifferent

#simplyrubbish

 

Despite being out of warranty this is a common issue and Skoda are well aware (and have been for years) that early tensioners on 1.8 and 2.0 TSi engines will fail and can lunch the engine. They should have issued a recall to fit the later tensioner revision, but instead elected to deal with failures on a case by case basis. Cynically they are now relying on the six year SOGA limit to try to avoid any contribution.

The same thing happened on my 2.0 TSi at six years old. Eventually after months of hassle, threats of court action and finally intervention from the Guardian newspaper, who ran a story on my plight (they had previously run a similar one with a Yeti owner) we reached a compromise and an acceptable contribution. The dealership was also less than impressed with my threat to sign write my Octavia and leave it on the road outside, but a well maintained six year old car should not be written off with major engine failure due to a fault Skoda had been aware about and avoiding for years.

Unfortunately, your only option is probably persistence and getting some kind of negative media coverage to shame Skoda. I spoke to Miles Brignall, who works on the Consumer Champions column for the Guardian. He was similarly very negative about Skoda's response to this issue. It still makes my blood boil to think about the upset and hassle I went through and the months I wasted getting my case resolved.

All the best.

[funex]

On 06/10/2017 at 09:10, TheClient said:

Did you purchase from new (in which case you are past the 6 yr limit) or did you purchase used from a dealer?

Thanks for the feedback here.

We purchased approved-used from a dealer less than 3 years ago (car was 3 yrs old then and on 20k miles - not had a heavy-duty life) and on a Skoda/VWFS HP agreement with a year or so left to run..

I am tenaciously pursuing with Skoda themselves at this point rather than being fobbed back onto either the supplying or fault-diagnosing dealers (with whom we have no history and who have both been fairly helpful with advice so far).

I get the sense there is a pre-determined script designed to feign ignorance of the issue - you'd think they'd see opportunity for positive publicity and media in actually resolving outcomes for their customers - basic customer retention really.

Hey-ho.

 

[TheClient]

13 minutes ago, funex said:

Thanks for the feedback here.

We purchased approved-used from a dealer less than 3 years ago (car was 3 yrs old then and on 20k miles - not had a heavy-duty life) and on a Skoda/VWFS HP agreement with a year or so left to run..

I am tenaciously pursuing with Skoda themselves at this point rather than being fobbed back onto either the supplying or fault-diagnosing dealers (with whom we have no history and who have both been fairly helpful with advice so far).

I get the sense there is a pre-determined script designed to feign ignorance of the issue - you'd think they'd see opportunity for positive publicity and media in actually resolving outcomes for their customers - basic customer retention really.

Hey-ho.

 

Yes ok.

 

That is an interesting slant.

 

My understanding is that with HP purchases the SOGA / Consumer rights act does not apply and instead supply of good act implied terms 1973 applies against the contracted HP company. You may need to get some advice re likelihood of success in that area of law and what the specifics are for protection.  Have you made it specific, when raising against Skoda / VAG you are claiming specifically against VWFS under the implied terms act 1973. They may be just assessing your claim under normal goodwill guidance..

 

Edit: At the very least, I think you need a formally issued letter for what you are claiming, the area of law and probably the section of the act under which you intend to make a claim....and see if that gets any action.

Edited 10 October, 2017 by TheClient

[funex]

On 09/10/2017 at 13:35, clarky2 said:

a well maintained six year old car should not be written off with major engine failure due to a fault Skoda had been aware about and avoiding for years.

Thanks for the feedback, I'd read of your experience in the Guardian article back in summer when our engine self-ingested and I was reading up this topic in full (took up more of our holiday than hoped). Persisting and will post outcomes here in due course for benefit of others as / when appropriate. 

[funex]

26 minutes ago, TheClient said:

They may be just assessing your claim under normal goodwill guidance..

Agree this is most likely the case - the stonewalling feels like first-line blocking and doesn't compute with their (vwfs) ongoing interest in the goods. Will review the HP contract terms alongside relevant acts and ombudsman rulings on related cases, take advice and weigh up chances of resolution / remedy. Thanks again.

[aantikk]

Hallo !

 

Translation with google translate.

Octavia 1.8 TSI, BZB, 2008, 118.00 km stock engine.
I can not solve the problem.
I changed the chain, I thought it was from the chain but it is not.

We noticed a strange noise that we perceived at 2,500 rpm up to 3,000 (the newer one is also heard when I accelerate, randomly). I checked several times and tried to register. Unfortunately, the recording is heard only in the first part of the video, in reality the noise is much more pronounced.

I did not notice anything special with the stationary car, I would say it is rather the task. The car goes well, the diagnosis gives me a fault in the manifold intake.
I'm just afraid to go with her, no one finds the problem.
Pay attention to the first part of the video when it exceeds 2,500 rpm.

In the last days the noise has increased and the mechanics can not figure out where it is.
It's louder in 1st gear or faster accelerating.

Some say it would be vibrations from the acceleration flap others say the gasoline pump, others as the problem in the engine, etc.

 

 

 

[TheClient]

13 hours ago, aantikk said:

Hallo !

 

Translation with google translate.

Octavia 1.8 TSI, BZB, 2008, 118.00 km stock engine.
I can not solve the problem.
I changed the chain, I thought it was from the chain but it is not.

We noticed a strange noise that we perceived at 2,500 rpm up to 3,000 (the newer one is also heard when I accelerate, randomly). I checked several times and tried to register. Unfortunately, the recording is heard only in the first part of the video, in reality the noise is much more pronounced.

I did not notice anything special with the stationary car, I would say it is rather the task. The car goes well, the diagnosis gives me a fault in the manifold intake.
I'm just afraid to go with her, no one finds the problem.
Pay attention to the first part of the video when it exceeds 2,500 rpm.

In the last days the noise has increased and the mechanics can not figure out where it is.
It's louder in 1st gear or faster accelerating.

Some say it would be vibrations from the acceleration flap others say the gasoline pump, others as the problem in the engine, etc.

 

 

 

 

This thread is mainly about EA888 1.8Tsi and 2.0TSi engine failures, predominantly from timing chain / tensioner failures or oil usage from scraper ring failures.

 

You may want to ask a moderator to move your post to a thread in the main Octavia Mk2 section with a thread title of it's own to get better coverage.

 

I'm not familiar with the BZB is it a EA888 generation engine?  If it runs a two position intake runner that is what the intake fault maybe but you need to give more information on the faults recorded.

 

The intake runner often moves position in the high 2k to low 3k rpm range.  If yours does run the intake runner, you could remove / clamp the vacuum line or solenoid control wire and tie it up in one fixed position and see if it makes any difference.

 

Like I say, I'm talking as if it is an EA888 but not too sure it actually is.

 

Edited 11 October, 2017 by TheClient

[rayx]

BZB is first generation, see attachment. But can´t see or hear anything wrong, too bad sound from inside the car. Get someone with diagnostics and check on iddle with bonnet opened for any rattle. The flaps could be the issue, stay closed till 3000revs, then must open.

 

 

SSP436_2.0L_TFSI.pdf

[aantikk]

Very interesting, from the attachment I notice that I have other segments and other types of pistons, maybe that's why not consume oil at all?
I'm going to check the throttle on Monday, while the noise is stronger, it's not heard at idle or in idle speed.
Sometimes it sounds more pronounced when climbing steep slopes.
The car gives a locked flap error, something like that. I'll see monday what it's all about.

The noise is a metallic, odd, audible between 2,500-3,000 rpm.
Thank you.

Edited 12 October, 2017 by aantikk

[rayx]

Yes, BZB are OK, no oil issues as with later CDAA. Surrely get solved the flaps, could be just their sensor, but it still needs to take intake manifold off the engine, not a simple job as injectors get off too.

 

Regarding sound, OK, car stationary, open bonnet, take off the engine cover and let someone to keep engine in revs you mention while you watch and hear the engine.

[funex]

Brief update on dealer position, bit of an annoying tangent whilst I actually try and resolve the issue  : “ ‘brand’ have instructed us the car is outside goodwill parameters and case is closed.”

 

Leaves me with a marooned engineless car sat on their premises:

 

”you will appreciate we are not a car park or compound .... your car will incur storage charges of £xx per day unless removed”

 

So after fobbing off a customer on to each other and not communicating on the engine failure, dealer and SUK are now in contact to shut down any gesture of goodwill or assistance. 

 

So, categorically a 6 yr old car with below average miles and full service VAG service history is beyond goodwill, end of. Buyers beware. 

 

Galling they also see fit to be patronising whilst their customer looks a £7k bill in the eye.           

 

#simplyappalling

#drivenbydenyingdesignfaults

 

 

Edited 13 October, 2017 by funex

[rayx]

Shame on VAG. What a "Vorsprung Durch Technik", just this small piece of metal (smaller than one penny ...) and its slow but permanent wearing out can ruin your engine ...

 

 

 

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102001

[aantikk]

On 10/12/2017 at 18:48, rayx said:

Yes, BZB are OK, no oil issues as with later CDAA. Surrely get solved the flaps, could be just their sensor, but it still needs to take intake manifold off the engine, not a simple job as injectors get off too.

 

Regarding sound, OK, car stationary, open bonnet, take off the engine cover and let someone to keep engine in revs you mention while you watch and hear the engine.

 

 

The intake sensor is faulty, we're waiting for the new one. Is it possible the noise to be from it?