Breaking VW Emissions Scandal -Mk I

[Tony R]

I have been a VAG freak since 17 when I bought a VW beetle. I have owned many VW group vehicles since that time as I believe they are excellent.

However, if I am disadvantaged by this defeat device issue, I will be more than happy to take action against VW/Skoda. The swines have been cheating us all. Where was their loyalty to me as a lifelong customer?

 

      I have just read an article which suggests the existing Board of Directors at VW are not sufficiently getting to grips with the problems, which seem to go beyond diesel, and that someone from outside needs to be brought it, but that seems  very unlikely.  Let us hope the various  " government "  departments in several countries insist their  citizens are " looked after " .

[Tony R]

      I have just read an article which suggests the existing Board of Directors at VW are not sufficiently getting to grips with the problems, which seem to go beyond diesel, and that someone from outside needs to be brought it, but that seems  very unlikely.  Let us hope the various  " government "  departments in several countries insist their  citizens are " looked after " .

 

 

       From The Guardian apparently :-

 

    "

VW crisis: outsiders needed

It is a safe bet that Volkswagen will ignore a call from one of Germany’s largest institutional investors for the embattled car-maker to replace its new chief executive and chairman. Matthias Müller and Hans Dieter Pötsch have been in their respective posts only a few weeks and were selected from VW’s executive ranks specifically to investigate the emissions cheating scandal. In any case, Union Investment owns only 0.5% of VW’s preference shares and thus can be dismissed as a minority voice.

The problem, however, is that Ingo Speich of Union Investment makes an excellent point to the FT: VW desperately needs outside leadership to restore some credibility to its investigations. The performance so far has been miserable. Müller, while proclaiming to be pursuing a “relentless and comprehensive clarification of events,” has offered no insight to what went wrong.

Worse, some of his statements have appeared deliberately ambiguous. When VW confessed earlier this month that the scandal also covered emissions of carbon dioxide, not just nitrogen oxide, it failed to say what its cost estimate of €2bn covered or how the figure was derived.

It is hard to believe, in similar circumstances, shareholders in a FTSE 100 company would tolerate a similar drip-feed of incomplete and inadequate information. They would demand a senior outsider, with no previous connections to the company, be put on the job. By contrast, Müller is a VW lifer and Pötsch is the former finance director.

It all looks too cosy – an attempt to preserve the boardroom carve-up between family shareholders, local Saxony officials and trade union appointees. Somebody should be asking whether cosy-looking governance was part of the problem in the first place – and only an outsider can do that.

[Tony R]

The top level set-up at V A G  seems a little too " cosy ", a précis of the scandal :-

 

       

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Volkswagen Emissions Scandal

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VW stalls

The German carmaker is engulfed in the worst scandal in its 78-year history after it admitted to manipulating emissions test data on its diesel vehicles in the US and Europe. The deepening crisis has wiped billions of euros off the company’s shares and rocked the European car industry

 

4:00pm COMPANIES

 

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VW shareholder calls for removal of chief

©Bloomberg

Leading German investor wants new outside leadership

Comment and analysis

Europe’s single market is a cosy corporate club

©Getty

Producers’ interests prevail even when companies, like VW, are found to have committed serial fraud

– Wolfgang Münchau

Business will shrug off our loss of trust

©Getty

The pace of online comment and criticism means the memory of misdeeds quickly fades

– Michael Skapinker

Volkswagen: sorry silence

©PA

Lack of concrete information from the carmaker is becoming worrying

– Lex

©EPA

Nov 11, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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German probe deepens diesel car fears Talks with carmakers as ‘elevated’ levels of pollutants found

©PA

Nov 9, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW offers US customers $1,000 gift cards ‘First step’ towards shoring up consumer confidence over scandal

©AFP

Nov 8, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW board to discuss emissions fallout Union representatives unsettled by actions of senior executives

©Reuters

Nov 8, 2015 MARKETS

 

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Nordea looks at suing VW for losses Several institutional investors considering legal action

©Getty

Nov 6, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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Investors call for on-the-road CO2 tests After VW scandal, shareholder body wants new vehicle monitoring

©AFP

Nov 4, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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Volkswagen scandal spills beyond diesel New problem with 800,000 vehicles, including some petrol cars

©AFP

Nov 4, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW told to rip up structure over scandal Carmaker warned independent figures needed to restore credibility

©Bloomberg

Nov 4, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW probe raises new issues for car owners Concerns now raised about CO2 emissions as well as NOx

©Reuters

Nov 4, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW tumbles as probe spreads to CO2 tests Carmaker says 800,000 vehicles have ‘unexplained inconsistencies’

Nov 3, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW investors concerned over new US row Carmaker clashes with EPA over SUV emissions — including Porsches

Nov 3, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW cheating probe spreads to CO2 tests Carmaker says 800,000 vehicles have ‘unexplained inconsistencies’

Nov 2, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW emissions scandal spreads to Porsche EPA finds high nitrogen oxide levels in cars with 3-litre engines

Nov 2, 2015 WORLD

 

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How Belgium speeded diesel’s dominance Tax breaks on company cars favoured fuel despite health fears

Oct 30, 2015 MARKETS

 

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Investors support EU carmaker bond sales Successful Daimler and VW deals come after good earnings reports

Oct 28, 2015 WORLD

 

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EU grants carmakers leeway on emissions Proposals for new testing rules after VW scandal watered down

Oct 28, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW slumps to first net loss in 15 years Provision of €6.7bn for repairs on vehicles with ‘defeat devices’

Oct 27, 2015 WORLD

 

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Brussels’ VW blunders prompts EU probe Resolution urges EU to create car-surveillance body

Oct 27, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW rivals scrapped US small diesel cars Mazda and Honda could not meet performance standards

Oct 27, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW under more pressure in US on emissions Regulator probes possible deceptive marketing by carmaker

Oct 26, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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Peugeot pledges new emissions tests French carmaker sees 3.2% rise in third-quarter sales to €12.39bn

Oct 25, 2015 WORLD

 

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EU ignored emissions warnings in 2013 Concerns aired long before VW scandal erupted

Oct 22, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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Volkswagen has suspended 10 senior execs Investigation of cheating on US tests expected to take months

Oct 20, 2015 MARKETS

 

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VW in new ABS deal as risks scrutinised Issues reassessed for investors in asset-backed securities

Oct 20, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW rivals warned against Schadenfreude German trade body says rivals may take pleasure from VW troubles

Oct 19, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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Piëch’s influence seen everywhere at VW Some predict former chairman could return to group after scandal

Oct 19, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW opposed US fuel efficiency rules German carmaker’s lobbying coincided with some of its diesel vehicles breaching emissions limits

Oct 18, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW ‘co-operating fully’ after French raid Police searched two offices over diesel emissions scandal

Oct 15, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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German VW recall set to spur EU-wide action One of Europe’s biggest repair exercises to affect 8.5m vehicles

Oct 15, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW scandal rooted in technology problem Issue with emissions controls seen as prompting group to cheat

Oct 15, 2015 MARKETS

 

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VW scandal tarnishes Europe’s bond market Scale of fines and lawsuits has a long way to play out

Oct 14, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW blow as new North American chief quits before taking up post Setback for efforts to tackle diesel emissions scandal

Oct 13, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW cuts investment after scandal Pressure on group to find savings to pay fines and settle lawsuits

Oct 13, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW changes diesel strategy after scandal German carmaker announces a bigger push into electric cars as it also cuts investment

Oct 13, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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Investors seek emissions lobbying answers S&P downgrades Volkswagen as China launches probe into scandal

Oct 12, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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400,000 UK VWs to need new engine parts Recall of affected diesel vehicles set to start in January

Oct 12, 2015 WORLD

 

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VW crisis fuels jobs fear in east Europe Worries spread in region among carmaker’s suppliers

Oct 11, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW’s home enveloped in fear and anger Wolfsburg residents worry carmaker scandal will harm city

Oct 9, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW Australia to recall almost 100,000 cars Regulators have launched probe and carmaker may also face class action lawsuit in emissions scandal

Oct 9, 2015 COMPANIES

 

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VW hearing displays anger on both sides US chief Michael Horn details how emissions test cheating began

[vxh26]

<SNIP> Where was ]VW's] loyalty to me as a lifelong customer?

 

From where on earth did you get the naive idea that ANY major manufacturer had any loyalty to customers, whether lifelong or not?

 

Have you heard of Apple? Microsoft?

[Ootohere]

vxh26 / vxh28,  

Out of interest have you ever owned a VW Group vehicle and had any experience of ownership or after care with Official 

VW Dealerships?

[Statto]

VW emissions scandal: VW UK offers discounts of up to £1500 in 'loyalty bonus'

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/vw-emissions-scandal-vw-uk-offers-discounts-%C2%A31500-loyalty-bonus

 

Wonder what will be on "offer" to Skoda owners...

[ppejic]

ahahahah... £1500 discount, it must be a joke?

[lol-lol]

I remember the Skoda deal where they paid the equivalent of the VAT ie over £3k of a Octy VRS, that was a deal.

 

Now only offering £1500 bunce or a car (just diesels?) with residual values heading towards that of big Vauxhall, not generous.

[ppejic]

Not only that, now it ts confirmed "officially" that VWG products are overestimated, so pricing must go at least 20% down, at least

 

Edit: there is not a lot of VWG "loyal customers" and after everything number of them is decreasing now.

Edited 13 November, 2015 by ppejic

[kevberlin]

From where on earth did you get the naive idea that ANY major manufacturer had any loyalty to customers, whether lifelong or not?

 

Have you heard of Apple? Microsoft?

I do not not, and did not think, that VAG owe me any loyalty. Hence I have no hesitation in pushing legal redress if necessary. That was the point I was making.

However, I do consider that VAG owed a duty of care to me as a customer.........namely, not misrepresenting goods they were offering.

[ppejic]

Reuters:

"

"The entire company is working to restore the trust of our customers in the brand and our products," VW brand sales chief Juergen Stackmann said.

Diess said in the DPA interview the carmaker's orders were growing in Germany but falling in southern Europe, Britain and some overseas markets.

He said compensation measures for VW owners would be tailored individually to market needs as VW aims to rebuild trust with customers.

Read more at Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/13/us-volkswagen-emissions-idUSKCN0T21NW20151113#8kgJuckuPpaqWVPq.99"

 

So, they're even more rude. They are saying to us that all of customers are not equal, depending on market needs.

 

 

[warley]

Not only that, now it ts confirmed "officially" that VWG products are overestimated, so pricing must go at least 20% down, at least

 

Edit: there is not a lot of VWG "loyal customers" and after everything number of them is decreasing now.

The only way that VW will retain most diesel owners as customers wil be to make them a generous offer. I don't suppose petrol owners will be very pleased either as their cars may depreciate more than expected as the brand has been devalued across the board. If they do not offer a decent buyback - and they have said that for the UK they wil not as I understand it - I will not be buying another VAG car. I imagine I would be a fairly typical customer and would rather turn the car back to VAG than have a 'fix' of unknown quality. They should offer a range of options to suit each customer. If VAG think this is a storm in a tea cup  that they can ride out and that we will all take our losses and come back for more they may do even more damage to their  company. They should start acting now because if they want to go on selling diesels they will have to subsidise many esisting customers to take a new one because hardly anyone else willl buy them for some time to come. Their production figures over the coming months should tell us what is happening.

[Ryeman]

Reuters:

"

"The entire company is working to restore the trust of our customers in the brand and our products," VW brand sales chief Juergen Stackmann said.

.............

Reminds me of "........the most humbling day of my life......."

Rupert Murdoch

Lying toads , all of them!

[Ryeman]

GM's Chinese division looks like a prospect to replace our GM South Korean sourced Captiva.

They claim 195KW (~260ps) but 'only' 334NM from its 2.0 GDI turbocharged engine.....a high revving diesel?.

I wonder what magical emissions system the Americans have on it and whether the U.S. EPA will accepts IT's cleanliness.

Buick Envision.

Edited 13 November, 2015 by Ryeman

[pikpilot]

 

He said compensation measures for VW owners would be tailored individually to market needs as VW aims to rebuild trust with customers.

 

 

That is marketing speak for "don't worry about the people who have already bought a vehicle, we need to spend money to attract new customers"

Yes, I am getting cynical as I get older, but I am also an elected Member of the Chartered Institute of Marketing.

Edited 13 November, 2015 by pikpilot

[Ryeman]

That is marketing speak for "don't worry about the people who have already bought a vehicle, we need to spend money to attract new customers"

Yes, I am getting cynical as I get older, but I am also an elected Member of the Chartered Institute of Marketing.

Step 1

Get positive publicity......extend current warranties for all by 2 years.

Why are they waiting?.

They don't trust their own product obviously.

[skomaz]

GM's Chinese division looks like a prospect to replace our GM South Korean sourced Captiva.

They claim 195KW (~260ps) but 'only' 334NM from its 2.0 GDI turbocharged engine.....a high revving diesel?.

I wonder what magical emissions system the Americans have on it and whether the U.S. EPA will accepts IT's cleanliness.

Buick Envision.

Isn't GDI gasoline direct injection... Is petrol...

[logiclee]

Isn't GDI gasoline direct injection... Is petrol...

 

Yes.

 

Direct Injection Turbo Petrol.

 

GDi = TSi etc.

[Ryeman]

Isn't GDI gasoline direct injection... Is petrol...

Of course.....sorry.

I added the 'G' so should have known better .....actually I can't seem to find mention of the fuel, but almost certainly petrol.

.......but our Captiva, reported as possibly being replaced by it, is mostly bought as a diesel.......VM Motori........so I guess I jumped to that conclusion.......hmm, must be a diesel option still, I would think.....not that power though and possibly more torque.

[Ryeman]

Yes.

 

Direct Injection Turbo Petrol.

 

GDi = TSi etc.

Yeah

Gasoline Direct Injection.

[Tony R]

When  I visited the Skoda UK site yesterday I wondered why it says  emissions/ mpg  figures  are provisional for the    NEW     Superb, and the following  shows why, the new engines are also suspect :-

 

 

 

•  

• Sites

  • AM-online

  •  

 

 

 

 

Dealers required to give disclaimer to buyers of new Volkswagen, Audi, Skoda and Seat cars

 

 

12/11/2015 in Car Manufacturer News

 

 

Dealers handing over Volkswagen, Audi, Skoda and Seat new cars to fleet customers are being required to point out that the CO2 emissions quoted are only provisional.

Customers taking delivery are being asked to sign a letter confirming they understand that the CO2 figures and fuel economy figures may change from those currently stated.

And Volkswagen, Skoda, Audi, and Seat have all updated their website footers with the line "Our CO2 and consumption values are provisional and are currently under review. Revised values will be published if necessary."

 

AM’s sister title Fleet News has seen emails from the Volkswagen Group brands brands’ fleet directors to customers with lists of vehicles for which emissions and consumptions may be subject to change - mostly vehicles from 2015 or 16 model years.

Writing to Volkswagen customers, head of fleet Michael O'Shea said: "We want to make it clear to you that it may be necessary to publish revised, and potentially increased, values in the near future."

However, the Volkswagen Group has said that if additional tax is incurred, the company intends to cover the cost to fleets and company car drivers, adding: "We want to make clear to you that the Volkswagen Group has informed relevant government authorities of this issue and intends to settle those potential additional taxes."

 

Vehicles that may be affected are predominantly diesel, with 1.4, 1.6 and 2.0-litre TDI units included on the list, as well as the 1.4 TSI petrol engine. 

This follows last week's announcement that some 800,000 vehicles globally may have higher CO2 emissions than stated. "

[ppejic]

So, shall we sue them?

[ppejic]

My opinion is, if VWG survives bankruptcy in THIS moment (Germany will help them this time) they will loose customers in any way, and if VWG cuts investments then they will bankrupt anyway, just little bit later.

 

In this moment:
non competitive technology + no investments in new technology + high pricing + rude behaviour over customers + fines = bankruptcy

[warley]

In this moment:

non competitive technology + no investments in new technology + high pricing + rude behaviour over customers + fines = bankruptcy

I reckon is is 50/50 whether VW will survive in it's present form. They seem to be talking about a response appropriate to each market. I think they need a response appropriate to each customer if they want to keep any of them. If not, a lot of customers will see them in court (via class actions) and will never buy VAG again. As a minimum they should ask each of their dealers to talk to a sample of customers to try to determine what customers expect. Do I really  think they will listen to customers? Not a chance! I expect VW managers are more concerned about trying to save their own jobs to worry about minor matters like customer concerns.

[vxh26]

<SNIP> should ask each of their dealers to talk to a sample of customers to try to determine what customers expect. <SNIP>

Why?

 

Customer expectations are not actually that difficult for them to work out, I suspect that they have other, more pressing concerns at the moment

 

<SNIP> I expect VW managers are more concerned about trying to save their own jobs to worry about minor matters like customer concerns.

Now there IS a surprise.

 

I'm sure most people (other than VW Managers) would be pretty relaxed about losing their jobs.