ezero1 device (CGON)

[Breezy_Pete]

23 minutes ago, tubbyleigh said:

Please share! 

 

Yep, please do @burntcrisps2, even if the results don't go the way you hoped.

 

[mac11irl]

Im interested to,but more interested in about 10 fulls time, when the post rev out decrud will have been built up again to "normal" levels.

[shaynec]

Reading this thread with much interest. 

 

I own a garage, and have just installed this on my own transit van to trial. Now, if I'm honest, I'm not particularly interested in all the science, because imo science and "real world" can be very different, and any fuel savings (if any) would be a bonus. The main issue we see time and time again ourselves are faults revolving around DFP, EGR and variable vane turbos. If this is able to significantly reduce these issues, then the actual cost of installing one of these compared to costs of resolving the problems I mentioned earlier makes it very worthwhile.

 

We also saw a significant reduction on the MOT smoke meter comparing before and after results. As far as "ragging" the crap out of it after installation, as stated in a previous post by another installer, it is only to set the maximum signal from the MAF sensor. And although I don't drive my van "like I stole it", I don't drive like Miss Daisy either, so I doubt that would make any difference anyway.

 

I am intending to test it with / without in the same test sequence, which should be relatively easy by removing the fuse. However we are an extremely busy workshop, so watch this space!

 

I have been in this business a long time, and unless something is proven to me, I will not recommend it. 

[chimaera]

Just now, shaynec said:

because imo science and "real world" can be very different,

 

Not when it comes to the second law of thermodynamics. It's absolute and unyielding.

[tubbyleigh]

Hey shaynec. Sound like we are on the same page here. Cgon tell me you can pull the fuse without losing the settings, so that would be interesting. Test emissions, pull fuse, drive a few miles and retest. Nice one. 

[Rustynuts]

5 minutes ago, shaynec said:

Reading this thread with much interest. 

 

I own a garage, and have just installed this on my own transit van to trial.

 

 

Ah, just what we need. Another impartial review from someone who has no vested interest in promoting the product. Given that they don't just sell the unit and you have to have it installed by one of their installation centres, I wonder where this might end up going.

 

Are you (or intending to be) one of their installers by any chance?

[fabdavrav]

13 minutes ago, chimaera said:

 

Not when it comes to the second law of thermodynamics. It's absolute and unyielding.

 

Not really....

 

You should know that the laws of Thermodynamics have been argued about since there were created/written down.....& no more so than the second law.......& then add the fact that quantum mechanics & other new discoveries are punching holes in the existing laws also....

 

 

Basically the "laws" that us humans write are only the limit of what we currently understand...which is bugger all in the grand scheme of the science of the universe, & atoms, electrons, molecules etc...

[shaynec]

4 minutes ago, Rustynuts said:

 

Ah, just what we need. Another impartial review from someone who has no vested interest in promoting the product. Given that they don't just sell the unit and you have to have it installed by one of their installation centres, I wonder where this might end up going.

 

Are you (or intending to be) one of their installers by any chance?

 

Lol... A nice cynical response... I won't promote a product that doesn't work! There is absolutely no mileage in that whatsoever... Having built the business up from scratch for over 16 years, I have been approached by many different companies, selling all manner of things... Unless I prove it to myself, it won't be something I'm promoting. And to be honest, Im not in the slightest bit interested in whether you choose to believe that or not... I am trying to offer some information to you all on this, but can also quite as easily not post again... Simples!!

[chimaera]

12 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

Not really....

 

You should know that the laws of Thermodynamics have been argued about since there were created/written down.....& no more so than the second law.......& then add the fact that quantum mechanics & other new discoveries are punching holes in the existing laws also....

 

 

Basically the "laws" that us humans write are only the limit of what we currently understand...which is bugger all in the grand scheme of the science of the universe, & atoms, electrons, molecules etc...

The laws of thermodynamics have resisted every attempt to disprove them. Quantum mechanics has exposed some limitations of older formulations but the fundamental principle is unchanged. Energy must be lost when converted from one form to another.

 

I always find it amusing that people trot out the quantum mechanics excuse when their pet magic energy saving device is being discussed. No-one ever calls Newton's Laws of Motion into question yet initially quantum mechanics seemed to show that it was wrong, but further research actually found that Newton's Laws emerged from quantum mechanics principles when applied at macroscopic length scales.

Edited 1 February, 2018 by chimaera
Added some more science!

[chimaera]

7 minutes ago, shaynec said:

 

Lol... A nice cynical response...

I'm not being a bit cynical. This is the uncomfortable reality of all devices of this sort. As someone who teaches thermodynamics at third level I have an excellent understanding of the principles involved and why this device can't work.

 

8 minutes ago, shaynec said:

I won't promote a product that doesn't work!

Then cut your losses now and bin the thing. It won't work.

[Rustynuts]

10 minutes ago, shaynec said:

 

Lol... A nice cynical response... I won't promote a product that doesn't work! There is absolutely no mileage in that whatsoever... Having built the business up from scratch for over 16 years, I have been approached by many different companies, selling all manner of things... Unless I prove it to myself, it won't be something I'm promoting. And to be honest, Im not in the slightest bit interested in whether you choose to believe that or not... I am trying to offer some information to you all on this, but can also quite as easily not post again... Simples!!

Yep, basically just cynicism, given that so many people seem hell bent on joining a random internet forum to promote the benefits of a device they've just started selling. If you had a Skoda and joined here then maybe the cynical side would be a little less suspicious, but a Transit?

[Aspman]

22 minutes ago, chimaera said:

 

Not when it comes to the second law of thermodynamics. It's absolute and unyielding.

 

@chimaera Magic is real you cynical hack!

 

No astroturfing going on here noooosireeee

 

The thing is I can think of a genuine way this could actually work. But I'm not saying  and it's not what they claim and it's not through he use of magic quantum isotopes of hydrogen.

 

You can't run further by putting weights in a backpack which by analogy is exactly what this product claims to do (Do extra work by cracking water + the mass of the device, to burn the H2 and O2 to get more energy to go further).

 

You'd get more mileage by going on a diet.

 

 

[Ootohere]

It was good back when you could just get into Pyramid Selling and make all the claims you wanted, 

book a room someplace, sign up loads of idiots to sell to friends, taxi drivers were good, rake in the money and not care about how many miles to the gallon you got from your new Mercedes / Porsche or whatever.

 

[shaynec]

Wow... It surely doesn’t matter what I drive?!? I researched the CGON subject , as I may (or may not) become an installer and this thread came up so read through it... Clearly there is mostly no interest in actual real world information/ testing, and quite frankly I’m not posting on here to have an argument with anyone, life’s too short... So I will do my testing nonetheless but regrettably that outcome won’t be posted here... 

[Ootohere]

People are most interested, you are i think the 3rd or 4th professional in the Motor Trade that has fitted them to your own vehicle.

Good to have it confirmed as giving the 18% or 20 % better economy and better driving.

[tubbyleigh]

Only the 2nd professional that I’m aware of and neither of us has made any claims about fuel economy. This is simply the only independent place that people are talking about it. I’m trying to establish if this product is any good and worth recommending to customers. 

I don’t appreciate the tone used here from people who haven’t and have no intention of fitting one. Your basically scaring off anyone who has anything good to say about it (interestingly, the people who have fitted it) leaving the rest of the people in this thread with no real life info. 

I am interested in any results people who have fitted one have to share, good or bad. 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

It's all good, as long as those with a professional interest declare it openly and honestly.  Some have been reluctant/non-committal/only admitting things in private comms.

Let's try not to make any more work for the mods/admins/Colin.

[CWARD]

@shaynec introducing hydrogen into the fuel mix creates a higher temperature combustion, which on a diesel means higher Nox emissions hence the reason why we’ve had EGR to reduce the combustion temperature and emissions. How can this Cgon device claim to reduce emissions? It may reduce the smoke, due to the higher combustion temperatures, that can be measured on your MOT smoke meter but it wouldn’t detect Nox and as we are now aware this is much more harmful. 

On a petrol engine you have other issues that require different ignition timings. Aston Martin and Alset did a lot of work on this but it would either running on just petrol or hydrogen due to their different flash points and ignition maps required to suit the fuels. Even then running hydrogen the engine made 50ps less than it did on petrol. 

Having your own garage hopefully you can explain how Cgon makes all their claims possible when R&D from the likes of Aston Martin as well as every car manufacturer have not been able to make the same findings?

[Aspman]

 

Someone appearing out of the blue to prop up outlandish claims is commonly known as a 'Shill'.

 

There is no independent evidence of the efficacy of the product, any evidence that was provided was rejected as being unsound by the ASA.

The product is claimed to work in a manner which contradicts the 2nd law of thermodynamics which put in in the same class as perpetual motion machines.

I've found a history of similar hydrogen generation products going back a decade or so. All with similar claims none with real evidence (3 different blokes in 3 different transits is not a 'real world' test it's an invalid sample set) and none which endured.

 

Again as I've said if you've bought into this I suggest you try to get you money back

If your thinking about it I strongly suggest you keep your wallet in your pocket and walk away

This is the modern equivalent of the magic pouch that changes iron to silver that's been around for 5000 years. If it worked the venture capitalists would be on it like flies on sh!t.

They're not.

 

If you don't like the tone it's because it disagrees with an opinion you are seeking to promote not an opinion you are seeking to establish.

 

Anyway caveat emptor.

 

 

 

Edited 1 February, 2018 by Aspman

[Ootohere]

tubbyleigh, maybe the other garage owners / installers were not professionals then, the ones that's posts might no longer show.

 

 

Edited 1 February, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[CWARD]

12 minutes ago, tubbyleigh said:

 

I don’t appreciate the tone used here from people who haven’t and have no intention of fitting one. Your basically scaring off anyone who has anything good to say about it (interestingly, the people who have fitted it) leaving the rest of the people in this thread with no real life info. 

 

 

 

Most of what has been said in promoting this device hasn’t proven or evidenced. Only Burntcrisps2 has tried to show anything but with so little data in such a short period is far from conclusive and as misleading as the evidence that Cgon tried using in their claims that got them in trouble with the ASA. 

It would be more appropriate to state that people are watching out for others from buying into unproven technologies sold with lots of jargon and claims that doesn’t stand up to inspection. Sorry if this doesn’t help your sales but I’d rather that than someone who can’t afford to lose that kind of money from buying one. We’ve asked for evidence time and time again but received none and it looks like we’ll keep going around this circle for a lot longer yet. 

[burntcrisps2]

It’s good to see such manic vitriol on this forum, but highly undesirable!

If you are of the opinion that it doesn’t work and can’t possibly do so, then fine say that once in this thread, then get lost and go and be a grumpy old man on some other forum thread.

Let those that are open minded discuss and find out what others have discovered and proved themselves.

I  have found this forum (and other auto forums) such a great place for very helpful guides, information, troubleshooting and this one such a great help for the last 6 years, but I am sorely tempted to just cease providing independent information, because of the morons on here. I wish there were more women on this forum as they would be far more open minded than those on here who know it all, but actually are no help whatsoever.

 

I will not give up though and will give regular updates for those that are interested. I am made of sterner stuff and will not bother reading the pathetic adverse comments in this thread.

 

I am, as stated before, a long time Customer Service(s) Manager and worked with all manner of nationalities worldwide some of who have been the most objectionable individuals imaginable, and then some! I am a logical trouble-shooter and as with everything I take all things with a large pinch (well bucketful) of salt, especially marketing bumf. I have worked with marketing people and they never provide the whole truth, but always overstate numbers. That’s true of all companies, governments too. If this product is only half as good as it appears then it is still worthwhile.

My goal is quite simple. We bought a Yeti which we will keep for 10years. I need to ensure the next 4years is as trouble free from EGR, TV, DPF, EGR Cooler issues as possible, because VW screwed up and have halved the life of the components due to their changes in the EA189 fix, rather than simply removing the cheat software.

I will get our Yeti fitted with a cgon device and provide as much detail as possible regarding that and at regular intervals afterwards in this thread.

I will also provide info on our Ford Focus at regular intervals as data becomes available.

 

[tubbyleigh]

Good man. Look forward to your updates. Thank you!

[CWARD]

@burntcrisps2 I look forward to your updates but not sure how you’ll benchmark them without doing the same sort of mileage to use your past Focus history as a reference. Also you spreadsheet doesn’t include the ambient temperatures or average speeds, which will have significant impact on your results. If you could partner up with someone else driving the same year Focus with similar mileage and history. Maybe some on the Ford Owners forum would be interested in conducting your experiment. 

[CWARD]

Meanwhile the CEO of Cgon, Simon Johnson, has a colourful past history on Companies House

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/omq_G-RNTuv57Y7Mq1G6IeZB72M/appointments

 

Despite all the claims of investment made in Cgon the balance sheet doesn’t show anything of the like with only £83k of tangible assets and the company being insolvent to the tune of £108k. Makes you wonder how long this company will continue before it joins the others Simon Johnson has been involved with. 

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08234358/filing-history

Edited 2 February, 2018 by CWARD