EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 1

[Auric Goldfinger]

As my Tory-voting Aussie-born straight-talking partner said a little while ago "Pathetic of Cameron to just 'take his ball and go in'".

 

I tend to agree with her, but am still pretty glad he is doing.

 

doing what Wino ?

[fabdavrav]

Which reminds me, we've already been told the truth about that £350m.

But can anyone give me a link to that eu army announcement that happened today.

Struggling to find it under all the other referendum articles.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=eu+army

 

various ones, the main announcement will happen shortly, but basically more "organised" & just doubling up what is done by NATO & the UN. For us it would make no real difference (if still in EU), as we do more under NATO & UN, just we might have more other EU members armies helping out, or worst case we get dragged into EU conflict....

 

Hang we did in Kosovo & it was NATO UK & USA that did the most....

 

Basically I see it as another case of contributing for something which is not needed & just creates jobs for the boys.....

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/as-a-former-british-army-chief-i-know-that-an-eu-army-could-neve/

 

Basically outlines what the Euro lot would like to have ie single army all sworn to EU, & why it won't happen in UK, but I can see other smaller EU members joining up forces & cutting costs to have access to a bigger army.

 

We however have a responsibility to help out our Commonwealth countries & we get help from them & the Commonwealth has been going longer in modern history & we ought to back them up more, & considering we were doing trade deals with India & China hundreds of years ago I think we will do better now we are out. 

[Breezy_Pete]

doing what Wino ?

Resigning.

[gadgetman]

As my Tory-voting Aussie-born straight-talking partner said a little while ago "Pathetic of Cameron to just 'take his ball and go in'".

 

I tend to agree with her, but am still pretty glad he is doing.

 

Leave supporters were demanding he went, there are some for whom this was the main reason for voting leave.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=eu+army

 

various ones, the main announcement will happen shortly, but basically more "organised" & just doubling up what is done by NATO & the UN. For us it would make no real difference (if still in EU), as we do more under NATO & UN, just we might have more other EU members armies helping out, or worst case we get dragged into EU conflict....

`

It was tongue in cheek because there has been no announcement because it was a big fat fib.

 

So next week Turkey's welcoming to the EU bypassing the legal route of ascension was on the EU agenda.  By next Friday we'll know it that was yet another fib as well.

[Eddie-NL]

Leave supporters were demanding he went, there are some for whom this was the main reason for voting leave.

 

It was tongue in cheek because there has been no announcement because it was a big fat fib.

 

So next week Turkey's welcoming to the EU bypassing the legal route of ascension was on the EU agenda.  By next Friday we'll know it that was yet another fib as well.

There will be a spare seat at the table now

[gadgetman]

There will be a spare seat at the table now

They have met on 1 of the conditions out of 35.  They have to meet this BEFORE the other members vote to accept or reject ascension.

 

The only way to get around this legal process is to rewrite the law governing ascension, which requires a vote from the members of the EU council members.  

 

Neither is happening.

[Scribbler]

FFS! Too late to educate yourselves now, Britain

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/24/the-british-are-frantically-googling-what-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/

 

Suspect there are more people waking up seeing the Pound rallying back against the dollar on the same day its not like shaun of the dead outside, the shelves arn't bare no one is digging bomb shelters in the back garden. Turn on the news see how the EU is reacting offering serious treaty change and concessions to anyone willing to listen as they load their cars with anything not screwed down in brussels and delete anything incriminating off their laptops and the penny drops Ahhhhh now i see what they meant about the EU.

[Eddie-NL]

They have met on 1 of the conditions out of 35.  They have to meet this BEFORE the other members vote to accept or reject ascension.

 

The only way to get around this legal process is to rewrite the law governing ascension, which requires a vote from the members of the EU council members.  

 

Neither is happening.

I posted it as a bit of sarcasm saying they can have our seat

 

Anyway it is not an issue for us now

[Scribbler]

But can anyone give me a link to that eu army announcement that happened today.

 

 

That was ultimately on the cards if UK remained. Now we have delivered the good news the squeaky bums in Brussels wont be trying any crazy sh/t like an EU Army and Turkey will be given the cold shoulder. I suspect they will be polling the individual nations on any decisions they make in future its a shame they couldn't have listen to us before forcing us into taking the drastic step of leaving. Perhaps in future if someone pleads with them for change they may actually take them seriously and not threaten and chastise them like a naughty child. 

 

Your Welcome People of Europe

[domhnall]

I'm not sure the maths stacks up for Scottish Indyref2.

1.6M voted leave at the Scottish Indy referendum in 2014 (38% of electorate). So 62% voted stay (in UK) or didn't vote. Turnout 85%.

1.6M voted remain at the EU referendum (38% of the electorate). So 62% voted leave EU or didn't vote. Turnout 67%.

Whilst the poisoned dwarf has to do something about the SNP core, the likelihood of a leave UK vote (with the additional uncertainties of having to apply for EU membership, having to adopt the Euro, a possible physical border between England and Scotland, loss of UK subsidies and oil price) is not a dead cert by any means. A second indy referendum loss for the SNP would probably signal their eminent demise. I think Nicola knows which side of her organic, fairtrade sourdough is buttered!

But by all means go for it, but please let the English vote as well this time

Poll tonight by the herald. 86% want to ditch the UK as they feel betrayed

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[Dr Zoidberg]

That was ultimately on the cards if UK remained. Now we have delivered the good news the squeaky bums in Brussels wont be trying any crazy sh/t like an EU Army and Turkey will be given the cold shoulder.

That's convenient. All the really bad stuff that was definitely going to happen, that was used as a reason to leave has suddenly evaporated leaving no trace.

Oddly, that's the same as all the good stuff like a new hospital a week if we leave.

So, all you exit people, care to make some predictions and we can revisit them in a few years and see if you are right.

[LGM]

Does anybody want my ticket for the euros on Friday?

[SlushBox]

Got myself a celebration Curry & nice bottle of Australian red...Went down the take Away in my nice Jag made on Merseyside ...Not a Euro in site ..Wonderful ...Right now where is that nice big lump of Canadian Chedder   ???

[VWD]

Bit on text before the referendum stated that EU was considering Scottish Beef as free from MAD COW disease. From the news reports to day could it still be true and classed as "not mad ,just upset or we are not amused".

I ,for one can't see why the Scottish Parliament is so keen on EU. Llets think back to the EU fishing policy where every other EU country could take waht they wanted out of british waters ,but not British boats. And why is ( now was) there such a large fishing community in the North - it was either fish/starve or emigrate in the 18th centuary as the other hate of Holyrood thought more of their sheep than the tenant farmers. Mind you- there's not a lot of fish left, and the EU does a nice line in handouts for tourism.

Now as for the £- great to think that the wealth of this country is handled by a shower who think more of betting than balancing the books.

[Scribbler]

That's convenient. All the really bad stuff that was definitely going to happen, that was used as a reason to leave has suddenly evaporated leaving no trace.

Oddly, that's the same as all the good stuff like a new hospital a week if we leave.

So, all you exit people, care to make some predictions and we can revisit them in a few years and see if you are right.

 

Its forced them into a rethink change of policy their words not mine. Also there is a suggestion in the German Media that they will make conditions to leave so severe that no other country dares to implement article 50 in future. I can't believe how lucky we are to have escaped intact. All we need is now for this energized political savvy general public to demand change in our domestic government to make sure the NHS is better funded and we have a massive well paid nurse and doctor training program setup to make us less reliant on slave labour from abroad. There's no suggestion that any foreign nationals should be sent home and infact if we need more skilled individuals from aboard im sure they will get visas. It wont happen overnight probably decades away but at least we are on the right path. This is an opportunity not a setback.

[RapidPaul]

Its this sort of generalising from the remain campaign that handed you a big fat loss...

...you only have yourselves and your liberal lefty mates to blame.

There's an irony at work somewhere here

[Ootohere]

Jlwah, Scottish Independence Referendum had 16 and 17 year olds voting, as they should have been allowed to in the EU referendum.

Edited 24 June, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[LHVRS]

I don't think we will leave the EU, I think we will have a revote in a year or so. 

[blackbart]

I understand a petition has started for a 2nd referendum to be held............................

[Scribbler]

There's an irony at work somewhere here

 

Tongue in cheek generalisation in reaction to the typical tracksuit and tattoo stereotype working class right winger comment. But i must admit i do have

a particular disdain for the self righteous liberal lefties epitomized by Corbyn of which i think cause most of the worlds problems by trying to 

hard to be seen to be overtly altruistic towards people who given the chance would probably do you harm or at the very least not return the favour. 

Edited 24 June, 2016 by Scribbler

[gadgetman]

I don't think we will leave the EU, I think we will have a revote in a year or so.

The EU say there is no negotiation. Out is out.

Once article 50 is started it cannot be reversed or stopped. We'd have to rejoin which means euro & schengen. Plenty of explainers on the major news sites.

Those who voted as a protest in the belief Europe would come back with a better deal bet and lost massively.

[trundlenut]

The EU say there is no negotiation. Out is out.

Once article 50 is started it cannot be reversed or stopped. We'd have to rejoin which means euro & schengen. Plenty of explainers on the major news sites.

Those who voted as a protest in the belief Europe would come back with a better deal bet and lost massively.

Having spoken to a few brexiters today the "but but but" has started.

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[gadgetman]

Having spoken to a few brexiters today the "but but but" has started.

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I think many saw it like the Scottish referendum where the UK went back with a deal for Scotland of more powers.

Others saw it as any election where protest votes are pretty normal.

For some the gravity of the decision reached by the majority won't sink in for several weeks or months.

Once article 50 is underway I think that'll be the real dawning of realisation. It'll also be the point at which, if the economic experts were correct, the issues will really bite.

[FUBAR]

Hard work reading all today's posts in this thread this evening. Lets get back on track now what's done is done, can anyone tell me as a person who lives close to the UK's only international land border (without a Trump wall), the following picture being the reality of daily life here: Which is worth more now? 

 

 

 

There are real physical consequences for this part of the UK with the only land border and to date no questions answered on what will happen, just generalised spin from each camp campaigning. On the UK side we have supposedly no plans to erect any form of border controls, at the same time as campaigning to control our borders. Likely outcome is leaving it open and enforcing the border control side of things at sea and airports entering GB from NI, leaving NI open and unprotected and open to migration of individuals who have made it into the Republic of Ireland first, but GB doesn't really care about us so that bits ok and will just mean that we are restricted in our own ability to travel within the UK (NICE!  ). The other side of that is while the Republic of Ireland would definately opt for the same, the EU might not allow this as it would leave an open international boarder to the EU on the flip side of the coin and would they really want to leave themselves open in that way also? Swings and roundabouts. We also have our own trade and freedom of movement agreements in place and written in both our laws, which pre-date the formation of the EU. On our side the UK would like to carry on with this, but likewise with the above, the Irish government would want the same, but despite it being written in their own law, they do not automatically have the right to do so as the EU overrides their own law in these respects and would be totally up to Brussels. 

 

 

On the plus side of an out or in for us leaving the EU here, we are entitled to dual nationality and can hold both British and Irish passports at the same time. This has been reported on today by the BBC due to an influx of applications from NI lol. Sod going through customs at EU airports if you don't have to boys and girls, best of both option will definitely be adopted by many who haven't already done so and whats better is that the EU has no power to stop us muwhahahah. :p http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-36625954

Edited 25 June, 2016 by FUBAR

[mender]

Right, enough of the chat and rhetoric

 

I believe leaving the EU is a mistake and the results of the referendum need to be challenged, for the following reasons:

 

It was close in numbers and if the result had been the exact numbers the other way, complaints and action regarding this would have ensued

 

Scotland and NI voted out and cannot have their wishes met under the system which is bringing about unwanted separation of the UK

 

Leave voters did not understand the implications for Scotland indyref2 or for ongoing issues with NI and borders when voting

 

It appears that a considerable number of leave voters used the vote as a platform for a protest against the government, without reference to EU participation and given the possible separation of the UK, would have voted differently

 

The Scottish referendum allowed 16/17 yos to vote and this was not allowed, even though 78% reportedly would have voted remain, changing the result

 

 

I have signed the petition, but feel that this is not enough and further action is needed before time passes.

It is not a case of the loser moaning, more that I care deeply about the UK and feel that this result is bad for the UK and genuinely does not reflect the real wishes of the whole UK in regards to actual EU membership, therefore needing urgent investigation and action due to the very close result.

 

Please note, this thread is not intended as an invite for Leave supporters to post nonsense about poor losers-please bear in mind that a 51.9% result would have been heavily questioned by a losing Leave campaign-more a call to arms of others who genuinely feel the same.

 

I am not on any social network sites, so may be missing a protest movement and would ask others who are aware of anything or feel the same and have ideas to post their ideas or thoughts.

 

In my eyes and with considerable support it seems, this is a terrible thing for our country and from many media reports the obvious outcomes for Scotland and NI amongst other things were not considered by voters who wanted to return to a strong unified UK outside of the EU.

I have personally spoken to several Leave voters who are shocked by the outcome and would have voted differently.

 

I am probably banging my head against a wall, but feel passionately about this for the above reasons.

 

Other than criticism, smart comments and more rhetoric, can anyone post anything which could assist?

I would happily put my all into this, drive to London to protest, whatever-just need to know which way to go to make it worthwhile