EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 1

[theezenutz]

Damn he was good what's the chances of him lending us a hand.

[theezenutz]

Seriously you guys just need to accept it and move on. You keep banging on about the virtues of Democracy well you've just had a big fat slice of it, open wide put it in your mouth and savour it.

This is what democracy is about where 51% of the population (the majority) rules over 49% of the population (the minority). Your acting like a bunch of spoiled kids who can't have there cake and eat it.

Not meaning to upset anyone but whatever happened to the can do, roll your sleeves up bulldog spirit we were on renowned for? All I see to quote Bill Hicks is "a bunch whinny maggots"

[eyegr]

The second major disappointment was the quite frankly unbelievable row over MI5 and the use of pencils in polling stations. I don't know how it started or who started it, but as someone who has worked on elections in a professional capacity, I was staggered that the electorate could fall for such a genuinely stupid proposition. The only logical conclusion is that a significant percentage of electors are imbeciles. This raises tough questions, as we have to accept that elections are quite possibly decided by people who couldn't find their backsides with both hands.

 

Yeah, people are always right when making the right decisions, but are always 'deceived' when making the wrong ones...

 

This is a fundamental flaw in democracy as a system. People cannot always make the right decisions for them because not all people are either qualified to understand a given subject, or intelligent enough to distinguish who is telling them the truth and who tries to deceive them. That's why, e.g. you can't vote as a minor. You are not expected to understand what are you voting for and what are the consequenses of your vote. Why this restriction is not extended to actually incompetent adults? Let us not forget that Hitler was elected and praised by the majority of his people.

There is, however, another solution to this problem: Education. The way a kid is brought up and the way this kid brings up his kids has a tremendous effect on society. It is a long process, but has succeeded on making western societies way more developed than others. It just needs to be extended and adapted to the 21st century.

[Mikek3111]

Any would think Armageddon has started.

Chill out.

[tubbytommy]

This is just.

I didn't win so let's do it until I do....

[Breezy_Pete]

Best of three?

[aldouk]

Is this likely to happen?

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

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[DanHarper]

The vote was fair and democratic, that petition won't go anywhere. A lot of the people crying over spilled milk are that those that voted Out but didn't really mean it or that didn't vote at all. A lot of the young people are complaining about the vote but then didn't bother to vote. Look at the voting demographics, the under 24 vote was overwhelmingly for Remain but the % that actually voted at all was much lower. If they'd bothered to go out and vote in the same number as the older generations they might have got what they wanted. Architects of their own demise.

 

Do remember when quoting the age breakdown regarding who voted Remain/Leave, that those breakdowns are extrapolated from a YouGov pole that got the result wrong! I'm not saying that the actual split was far from what the poll suggests, but after the general election and this referendum we really need to think about how accurate these polls are, and the more its called in to question the more I believe they will be manipulated.

[Paul007]

I work with a lad who's 25 and lives in Manchester but had his poll card delivered to his home address. He phoned Manchester CC to get a vote sorted out but had missed the boat. The Council said they'd check whether he still could but never got back to him. He wasn't pleased about that, nor would I be, but I wouldn't have missed the boat in the first place. If he was that bothered about voting, he should have chased it. I wonder how many others in the 21-35 age group have done similar ?  If that's anyone on here, I'm sorry, but it doesn't give you a mandate to say that the result has frozen you out of the EU for x years and messed up your life. As a Presiding Officer on the day, I noted that there were very few of the age group I mention who actually came to vote.

[MattHunt]

Bloody hope so. Am seriously worried about immigration seems ( stress seems) to have overtaken the leave argument.

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Edited 25 June, 2016 by MattHunt

[Auric Goldfinger]

Is this likely to happen?

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

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Clutching at straws 

[domhnall]

Bloody hope so. Am seriously worried about immigration seems ( stress seems) to have overtaken the leave argument.

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I'm contemplating emigration not immigration.

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[Auric Goldfinger]

Six days, the seventh was a day of rest.

 

 

Damn he was good what's the chances of him lending us a hand.

 

Go on then, when and where   

[MattHunt]

I'm contemplating emigration not immigration.

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Me to. Zurich.

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[gadgetman]

Is this likely to happen?

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

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The admissions regarding the key leave "promises" are getting a number of leavers understandably angry.

Told immigration will stop only for Hannan to admit it won't. No extra NHS either.

Yes election manifestos are also largely fiction, but can be undone at the next general election.

This result is permanent, and those who knowingly misled the public to bolster support need to be held to account for their actions.

Today everything seems like business as usual, Boris was right we're fine.

But article 50 process hasn't started yet, and eu members & heads of state are indicating that things will be messy.

[gadgetman]

The vote is done, accept the majority of the U.K's decision and let's forge on together.

I support the democratic process, but the blatant lies prejudiced the vote. For many these lies were the deciding factor.

This fact cannot go unchallenged, and those who sold us these lies knowing that's exactly what they were should be made to explain themselves.

No one was able to make an informed decision either way.

[theezenutz]

But........ Politics is built upon lies like George Carlin once said "if you introduce truth into the equation the whole system would collapse"

 

I heard a gentlemen on the radio hit the nail on the head, he said "politicians in future may think very carefully about trying to scare the public into voting a certain way".

 

You guy's only see bs from one side we see it from all sides which is what you need to make balanced decisions.

[domhnall]

The count of the vote showed the result.

As to the UK voting, it was actually those with a vote, and those were in the UK and in other countries, some that might never have set foot in the UK for years.

Residents of Gibraltar being a case of that, but then they voted for the United KIngdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland to stay in the EU

by 96% of those with a vote that voted.

I doubt that Scotland will be allowed to join the EU as it will be leaving as 1 of the 4 countries that make up the UK,

& actually the question is if it really needs to.

What it does need is migrant workers and just incoming workers otherwise some might need to accept minimum wages and get a job

to do some actual work.

Brussels has started making welcome noises to Edinburgh. This could be about to get interesting. During indyref 1 the Yes Scotland campaign was grilled to the nth degree about the implications of their 600 page plan

2 days after the vote we're still waiting for a single page of the brexit plan. Shoddy, utterly shoddy

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[moley]

But article 50 process hasn't started yet, and eu members & heads of state are indicating that things will be messy.

The EU will want to make it messy as they want to put off other EU countries following the UK out of the EU They also want the process to start ASAP.

I'm not happy with the result, but the leave campaign have edged it. Cameron should have implemented article 50 yesterday morning and then walked away to let Gove and Boris sort it out. 

I wonder how happy leave voters will be with Boris or Gove as PM until 2020?

[tweenster]

Interesting stat (or at least I thought it was) from the referendum was that Boston in Lincolnshire, that has a very large immigrant population (mainly from Portugal and Eastern Europe), had 77% turnout and 75% voted Leave. Clearly they don't have the same concerns as the OP.

[domhnall]

In 2014 the EU said Scotland would have to join as a new state as it would be voting to leave the UK and therefore EU (to discourage catalonia). Now, Scotland is keen to maintain the status quo but England and Wales want to quit. Scotland can be seen as continuing as the rump UK and therefore doesn't set a precedent for catalonia. And it will make things messy for the tories.

Interesting times

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Edited 25 June, 2016 by domhnall

[moley]

[SkodaVRS1963]

I support the democratic process, but the blatant lies prejudiced the vote. For many these lies were the deciding factor.

This fact cannot go unchallenged, and those who sold us these lies knowing that's exactly what they were should be made to explain themselves.

No one was able to make an informed decision either way.

 

I made an informed decision?  As Jeremy Corbyn (himself a leading light of the Remain movement) conceded on Sunday in an interview with Andrew Neil, if you vote Remain you cannot cap or limit immigration because the free movement of people is one of the cornerstones of the EU idea.

 

I don't want uncontrolled immigration so I voted Leave.

 

Sadly, it appears that daring to express an opinion about immigration gets you labelled as a bigot or a racist or xenophobic.

 

I am none of those; but I AM concerned about uncontrolled immigration.

[Ootohere]

What is Stronger the 'Auld Alliance' of France & Scotland or Frances opportunity to really take the top position in the EU as Germany 

gets in a panic.

[moley]

 

I don't want uncontrolled immigration so I voted Leave.

I don't want uncontrolled immigration either, but there are many good workers coming to the UK and doing jobs that many Brits don't want to do. We could remedy this by forcing people off of benefits and into work, as long as these people are willing to work and do a good job.

 

Leaving the EU will allow us to control who comes in from Europe

What the leave campaign didn't tell you was immigration levels from the commonwealth countries will be unaffected.