Why Oh Why

[MoggyTech]

Unless I'm being really dumb (and that does happen frequently) why oh why is the handbrake not connected to the DSG mechatronics. Here's my reasoning.

 

It doesn't matter if you use stop/start or not. When you stop at lights, or a junction, you have to keep your foot on the brakes, and that gives the driver behind, three glaring brake lights in the face. If you apply the handbrake and release the foot brake, the clutches engage, and the car tries to drag itself forward, not good for a dry clutch DSG.

 

So next option. Stop, apply handbrake, put DSG in neutral, release foot brake. Lights change to green, and you have to apply the footbrake again to get the car back into drive, then release the handbrake.

 

No doubt this will become second nature to me after a few more weeks but surely a simple signal from the handbrake warning light to the DSG, would let you avoid the 'blind the guy behind' scenario?

[spinifex]

I personally would prefer the guy behind me had brake-lights glaring in their face.....

 

People stopped at traffic lights these days are so preoccupied and distracted by other things, such as their mobile phones, etc, etc - I'd prefer they saw the car in front was still stopped - rather than looking up, seeing no brake-lights and immediately trying to drive forward, because subconciously they think the traffic is flowing again.

 

Just my 2c

[Ootohere]

So i take it no 'Auto Hold'. which can be enabled and does the perfect job of not having to hold brake pedal or use the electric handbrake.

[BoxerBoy]

"It's A Feature"

You can see this discussion / moan elsewhere.

I'm not convinced that holding down the brake pedal does in fact disengage the clutch. I don't see it documented anywhere.

4 disc brakes will always hold against a clutch.

So unless stopping for a few seconds, it's good old fashioned Handbrake - Neutral. Feet off the pedals till its time to go.

[Robjon]

I agree with you, MT. 

But rest assured, the procedure does become second nature after a few weeks...

...as does the requirement to pull the gearlever backwards to go forwards...

...and (when in manual mode) the requirement to push the gearlever forwards to select a higher gear.

 

I'm sure there must be logic somewhere, but perhaps I'm being dumb as well!

[PetrolDave]

So unless stopping for a few seconds, it's good old fashioned Handbrake - Neutral. Feet off the pedals till its time to go.

As per the advanced driving advice:

 

"When a pause becomes a wait, use the handbrake"

 

Personally I hate having brake lights glaring into my eyes, it takes some time (longer as you get older) for your eyes to adjust when 3 (or 5) bright brake lights turn off - so sitting with your foot on the brake pedal temporarily blinds the driver behind when you start moving again.

[philbes]

As per the advanced driving advice:

 

"When a pause becomes a wait, use the handbrake"

 

Personally I hate having brake lights glaring into my eyes, it takes some time (longer as you get older) for your eyes to adjust when 3 (or 5) bright brake lights turn off - so sitting with your foot on the brake pedal temporarily blinds the driver behind when you start moving again.

I completely agree.

[MoggyTech]

I'm not convinced that holding down the brake pedal does in fact disengage the clutch. I don't see it documented anywhere.

Trust me, the mechatronics unit disengages the clutches if [a] the car is stationary and the footbrake is applied.

[themanwithnoaim]

Yeah the brake pedal disengaged the clutch, you can feel it and see the revs drop.

[BGB]

Yeah the brake pedal disengaged the clutch, you can feel it and see the revs drop.

 

This is indeed correct and also mentioned in a lot of discussions whether to leave the DSG in D while at a red light or in N to "save" the clutches. 

 

The answer is, specified from the manufacturer ZF that whilst on a red light or any other brief stop, the DSG is to be left in D while the clutches disengages.

[KenONeill]

This is probably a result of the USian "unintended acceleration" issue with the self-proclaimed "superior" Audi.

[BoxerBoy]

I haven't read any ZF manuals recently. They must have slipped out of my handbooks along with the mechatronics user guides.

Maybe I'll find some in the Lego Technic kit I'm about to start :-)

I'm ok with pausing in D for a few seconds, but not for long. I'm pretty sure the clutches are staying warm.

Luckily I've never seen the Hot Clutch warning lamp - and hopefully never will.

But uppermost in my mind is the handbook WARNING paragraph - " . . . It is necessary to hold the car with the brake pedal . . . since the power transmission is never completely interrupted, also not when the engine is idling - the vehicle creeps"

Impossible for us to test / prove / disprove because 4 discs will always trump a clutch.

The revs will drop because the engine is being slowed through the clutches.

[jbyrnes82]

does holding your car on the brakes in an auto not also run the risk of warped discs?

 

I have a DSG and for long waits will go neutral and handbrake for this reason.

[MoggyTech]

I haven't read any ZF manuals recently. They must have slipped out of my handbooks along with the mechatronics user guides.

Maybe I'll find some in the Lego Technic kit I'm about to start :-)

I'm ok with pausing in D for a few seconds, but not for long. I'm pretty sure the clutches are staying warm.

Luckily I've never seen the Hot Clutch warning lamp - and hopefully never will.

But uppermost in my mind is the handbook WARNING paragraph - " . . . It is necessary to hold the car with the brake pedal . . . since the power transmission is never completely interrupted, also not when the engine is idling - the vehicle creeps"

Impossible for us to test / prove / disprove because 4 discs will always trump a clutch.

The revs will drop because the engine is being slowed through the clutches.

The car will creep if the brakes are not applied even at idle speed. It's not impossible to test/prove, because the brake pedal DOES disengage the clutches if the vehicle is stationary. The section you quote from the user manual is just badly worded. Given the clutches are covered for the whole warranty period, do you think Skoda would risk £900 repair bills because people were simply following the instructions.

 

Show were it says in the manual, that the vehicle must be put into Neutral if stationary for more than a few seconds.

[MoggyTech]

does holding your car on the brakes in an auto not also run the risk of warped discs?

 

I have a DSG and for long waits will go neutral and handbrake for this reason.

If you have been racing and the discs are really hot, then yes, it's a possibility. The brake pads suck heat away from the contact area so you get uneven disc cooling. In normal use it shouldn't be a problem though. Of course the rear discs would still suffer due to the handbrake. 

[MoggyTech]

For the DSG doubters regarding clutches and using the footbrake, First thing in the video

 

[xpower]

To the OP - yes it's annoying, I completely agree.

We having be working on a coding solution to allow complete Autohold but no luck as yet.......

Not without EPB at least

[YMe]

My 2016 DSG Diesel SE L idles at 1000rpm if held in gear by the brakes. This drops to 750 in neutral and handbrake on - the way I use it at lights etc.

[MoggyTech]

My 2016 DSG Diesel SE L idles at 1000rpm if held in gear by the brakes. This drops to 750 in neutral and handbrake on - the way I use it at lights etc.

Something not right there, I would get that checked.

[YMe]

What should it be doing in the above conditions?

[ahenners]

What should it be doing in the above conditions?

I think the point is that if the DSG does disengage the clutch, then the idle revs shouldn't change regardless of whether you drop it into neutral, or leave it In D and hold the brake.

[MoggyTech]

What should it be doing in the above conditions?

750 RPM idle in D with the footbrakes on, and the same in neutral.

 

Edit: Just noticed your car is diesel, if it's 6 speed transmission it uses wet clutches, so it might be OK. If it's 7 speed it's definitely dry clutches and needs checked/ 

Edited 9 December, 2016 by MoggyTech

[YMe]

Yup! 6 speed DSG. Clutches are engaged with footbrake on - the car can be felt to be pulling against the brake.

Edited 9 December, 2016 by YMe

[Gromle]

Yup! 6 speed DSG. Clutches are engaged with footbrake on - the car can be felt to be pulling against the brake.

My Dsg6 does not do that. If press the brake gently, the rpm stays high and it tries to pull away, but with firm press the rpm drops to normal idle.

[norsko]

Same with mine 6sp DSG. When you press the brake pedal, the rpm drops and the clutch disengage.

If you engage the handbrake and release the brakes the rpm rises and the clutch are engaged and the car starts pulling.