VCDS what do I need? - READ BEFORE BUYING

[SP36]

I'm sure this is covered somewhere but I've been unable to find it.

 

I want VCDS purely to have a play with some adaptions to my Mk3 Octavia VRS.

 

However finding out what I need to do this and how much it will cost seems like a minefield of overly complicated abbreviations and computer jargon.

 

Any how, can somebody please tell me which version of VCDS I need and recommend a OBD to USB cable? Also how much this will cost?

 

Thanks!

Edited 16 February, 2018 by Gizmo

[Jonny5ive]

Hello, 

 

First and foremost I would recommend a genuine cable. There are plenty of counterfeit options out there. 

 

Following on from the above an approved supplier, my cable was bought as part of a group but some years ago at circa £230 IIRC, but the source supplier is/was https://m.gendan.co.uk

 

I have a Hex-can cable and it/I am able to carry out most coding for the mk3 but it's my understanding that certain options require VCP (VagCanPro) 

 

Do consider how much you will use the software before buying. I invested as there are numerous VAG cars within my family. Consider contacting a local member if you only need a few tweets doing. 

 

One of our resident VCDS guru's will no doubt be able to give some more details. 

 

Hope this helps 

[Gizmo]

As Johnny5ive said depending on the use you will have for it you may be better off finding someone (experienced) local to you (a full list / map of current Briskoda VCDS owners can be found in my signature) to do the coding for you (Johnny5ive is not far from you).

 

VCDS will also not do certain things that Vag Can Pro (VCP) is capable of doing, a couple of such things are:

 

Video In Motion (VIM) - (not legal in the UK), this lets you display the DVD / TV picture whilst driving.

Closing of the electric tailgate / hatch from the inside of the car on certain cars (Superb MK3 being one of them)

There is a map of VCP owners in my signature also.

 

If you really want your own VCDS interface then there are a few options to you:

 

A full list of the genuine Ross-Tech distributers can be found here do not be tempted to buy a NEW device from anywhere other than an official distributer, especially if it is cheaper as chances are it will be a clone!

(eBay and Amazon etc have hundreds of clones on there!)

 

Your options are (the latest Audi A4 will not connect fully to all controllers with Micro-CAN / HEX+CAN interfaces, Ross-Tech believe this may eventually be the case with more newer cars as well as the controllers get more sophisticated) :

 

Micro-CAN ... discontinued but can be bought second hand (be careful with anything secondhand as there are MANY cloned cables out there!)

HEX+CAN ... also discontinued so would need to be second hand again (I recently sold mine for not far off what I paid for it) this will do everything the Micro-CAN will do (all CAN cars) and cars like the Fabia, Rapid, Polo etc

HEX-V2 ... starting at £225 for 3 VIN (3 cars), 10 VIN for £299 and unlimited VIN for £450

 

HEX-NET ... starts at £450 for 10 VIN or unlimited VIN for £575

The HEX-V2 is a fixed cable, one end plugs into the cars OBD port the other (USB end) plugs into a device running (full) Windows, a tablet is fine if it runs full Windows.

The HEX-NET is a wireless device meaning you can use an iOS device (iPhone or iPad) or any smart phone to connect to it via wifi using the VCDS-Mobile app (personally I am not a fan off the app as it makes coding more difficult due to the nature of all coding being done via a drop down menu system, but it certainly has it’s uses as there is no need to carry a netbooks / laptop / tablet around with you. You do however need an internet connection as the coding is done via 'the cloud'

You can also use the HEX-NET interface with the (supplied) cable and use the full VCDS software.

 

All software updates are free for life, if you buy a second hand interface then there is a one off registration charge of $99 (to Ross-Tech) if / when you require any support from them (all new interfaces come with the registration included)

 

Cloned / hacked versions of the software / interfaces are rife, some will work, some will not, they have been know to ‘brick’ controllers (the software is hacked... so what else is ‘included’ in this software?) non can be updated via Ross-Tech, cloned / hacked versions will receive no support on Briskoda either.

 

Final thought:

VCDS is not cheap (especially now they have introduced the newer ones and discontinued the Micro-CAN and HEX+CAN) but why would you plug anything cloned into your expensive car... seems a crazy idea to me, a clone can easily cause hundreds of pounds worth of damage to controllers and that is before you may need to recover the car to a dealer / specialist to have the fault diagnosed and then swapped out and re-coded, is it worth the risk?... only you can decide that.

[MartiniB]

@Gizmo68

can you describe other differences VCP vs VCDS vs OdbEleven

change options, upload/download device's firmware etc.

 

not decided yet, is VCP better?

[Gizmo]

I wouldn't say it's 'better' it certainly is not as user friendly to use, but it can do a few things VCDS cannot, such as upload a modified file to a controller, I have not used mine much yet but what it can do...

 

Turn on rear DRLs on PQ35 platform (MKII Superb, Yeti etc)

Disable cold start bulb check

Close S3 hatch from inside car

VIM

 

I'm sure there is lots more but it's early days so far for me. 

 

VCP also requires a yearly subscription. 

 

I certainly will will not be selling my VCDS!

 

Never used ObdEleven so cannot comment on it. 

 

Edited 8 May, 2017 by Gizmo68

[Deerjohn]

23 hours ago, Gizmo68 said:

I wouldn't say it's 'better' it certainly is not as user friendly to use, but it can do a few things VCDS cannot, such as upload a modified file to a controller, I have not used mine much yet but what it can do...

 

Turn on rear DRLs on PQ35 platform (MKII Superb, Yeti etc)

Disable cold start bulb check

Close S3 hatch from inside car

VIM

 

I'm sure there is lots more but it's early days so far for me. 

 

VCP also requires a yearly subscription. 

 

I certainly will will not be selling my VCDS!

 

Never used ObdEleven so cannot comment on it. 

 

 

Have you tried to do coding for dimming DRLs with turn signal? For example like this - 

 or

 

I tried according to these instructions, but no success - http://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/18592-dimming-drls-with-turn-signal-obd-eleven-coding/

 

[Gizmo]

Sorry no I haven't (personally I like the way they flash as std) 

[Gizmo]

UPDATE:

 

Both the Octavia MKIII and Superb MKIII (along with other Audi, VW and SEATs) are now starting to use controllers that the older interfaces (Micro-CAN & HEX+CAN) cannot read , so expect other MQB onwards platform cars to follow suit: Kodiaq / Karoq etc.

 

This means if you want to read or code ALL controllers you now need the HEX-V2 or HEX-NET interfaces (so do not be tempted with the older and now discontinued Micro-CAN or HEX+CAN interfaces)

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HEX-V2 is available in:

3 VIN* (£225)  

10 VIN* (£299)

Unlimited VIN (£450) versions, 

 

The VIN limit can also be upgraded at a later date at a cost of $169 (3 to 10 VIN and again another $169 to go from 10 to unlimited VIN, so clearly if you think you will ‘need’ more than 10 VINs it is much cheaper to buy it unlimited rather than keep upgrading.

 

PC requirements for the VCDS software are:

• Desktop, laptop or notebook PC
• 1 GHz dual-core processor
• 1 GB RAM
• Windows Windows 7, Windows 8/8.1 or Windows 10 (32 and 64 bit editions)
• Approx. 100MB of hard disk space
• USB port

Slower computers or Windows 2000, XP and Vista may work but are not officially supported.

 

As now, you can also run the VCDS software on a Mac (via Bootcamp etc) running Windows.

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HEX-NET is available in:

10 VIN* (£430)

Unlimited VIN (£575) again you can upgrade from 10 VIN to unlimited at a later date for $169.

 

The difference is HEX-NET can be used with a cable or via wifi (on full VCDS software) it can also be used on just about any smart phone or tablet (including Apple iOS) ... the VCDS-Mobile app is not as easy to use as the full VCDS software for coding mind! (nor is it designed to be).

 

HEX-NET also covers Lamborghini which HEX-V2 doesn’t...  if that really matters to you  

 

HEX-NET is compatible with:

• Microsoft Windows^® versions from XP through the current Windows 10
• Apple iPad^®, iPhone^®, etc.
• Most Android^® phones and tablets
• Blackberry Z10^®, Q10^®, etc.
• Microsoft Surface^® & Windows Phone^®
• KindleFire^®, etc.

 

* VIN = chassis number, so:

3 VIN = 3 cars 

10 VIN = 10 cars.

 

 

HTH

[Rustynuts]

Just to add to this. Currently the cheapest Unlimited VIN Hex V2 path is to buy the 10 Vin unit from somewhere like Ilexa or Gendan, and then buy the upgrade to unlimited from Ross Tech website.

 

Unlimited Vin Hex V2 is £449.

 

10 Vin Hex V2 is £298 plus the unlimited upgrade cost of $169 (approx. £120) which equals £418. A saving of £30 which will buy many beers.

[Magicdrshoon]

On 5/7/2017 at 11:11, Gizmo said:

 ...cloned / hacked versions will receive no support on Briskoda either.

 

Does this mean that moderators will remove clone-related posts, or that people will unlikely get support from the community for such things?

[Gizmo]

Both.

 

Very few people will give you the time of day regarding cloned software, likewise we remove what we see or what gets reported.

 

Some think cloned software is a good and harmless way to get it VCDS cheaper,

However Ross-Tech isn’t in the same league as Microsoft etc so cloned software does hit them, which ultimately could affect the product (like it has with other marques with VCDS type software) which could lead to the demise of Ross-Tech which would then affect everyone as there would then be no more development or new software releases (so no support for newer cars or controllers), meaning everyone loses out.

 

 

[Magicdrshoon]

I see. I think I was confusing competitors with rip-offs!

 

So clones are devices and software being sold as VCDS, but are either hacked copies of software or software created to look like VCDS and replicated hardware.

 

It's fine to discuss alternatives to VCDS like obdeleven etc.

 

 

[Gizmo]

The alternatives like OBD11 do tread a fine line (which is why some people have stopped giving walkthroughs for VCDS coding / adaptations)

 

IMO (and others I have spoken to) on the face of it all they have done is reverse engineered VCDS ... let someone else (Ross-Tech in this case) put all the R&D into the software then copy it to a slightly different format.

 

R&D in China etc simply translates into ‘Replicate and Duplicate” = a great cheap fix but when things go wrong they rarely care or give support for their product. 

[Magicdrshoon]

Isn't that how progress and business works? Research and development builds on the technologies already discovered/developed and move them forward in someway - whether that be more advanced or more efficient or both.

 

I get that Ross Tech have invested significant time and effort in producing - by all accounts - an extremely robust and useful capability without breaking the bank of the consumer, but surely others must be allowed to compete in the same arena.

 

The risk of lack of support from the supplier (if present) needs to be weighed alongside the costs - but I would think that would be up to the consumer to decide upon, with the knowledge gained from reading unbiased, balanced views online in such places as this forum.

 

As an electronic engineer I often look at current technology to see if I can find opportunities to improve them - again, whether that's to make it work better or to just make it more accessible to the consumer. As long as no copyright infringement has taken place, my conscience is happy with this principle.

 

OBDEleven seems like a well established Lithuanian company, and seems to be a respected tool with a plethora of resources online to support it. Plenty of YouTube vids and other VAG forums that offer guidance and support.

 

I realise this post may sound argumentative - it's not supposed to - I'm just trying to put a case forward to say that just because one company invests in developing a product, it doesn't necessarily mean that no-one else can compete in the same market. 

[Rustynuts]

Ross Tech (Uwe Ross in particular) spends a lot of time and considerable resources developing a product which works with all new VAG group vehicles, to the extent they even hire or buy the cars required to further develop their product and invest in its future as and when new modes come into production. Is it "Progress and business working" if another co0mpany then simply buys their product reverse engineers it, modifies it slightly to avoid treading on any copyright toes, and then sells a cut price budget product based on the original?

I see your argument that others should be allowed to compete in the same arena (as you colourfully put it), but if they're to compete then surely they would be expected to invest the same sort of research and development into their own product rather than simply purloining the technology and calling it their own?

How you choose to advance your own business (based on adopt, adapt, improve principles) isn't relevant at all really, unless you decide to adopt VCDS and adapt it to your own specifications in the hope you can advance yourself and your business on the shoulders of others.

 

Clearly you're not a Ross Tech customer (yet) and are presumably in the process of justifying to yourself that a cheaper way to acquire the relevant technology without supporting Ross Tech in their venture is viable, and if this is the case then you've joined a long list of people who will be denied any assistance from the massed supporters of the genuine product.

 

Edit: As an aside, why not join Ross Techs forum and ask them if they share your views on free business opportunity for people who reverse engineer their product.

Edited 4 March, 2018 by Rustynuts

[Magicdrshoon]

I appreciate that Briskoda have decided to support Ross Tech, and for good reason.

 

You are right in saying that I'm looking for something to meet my needs, and, in light of the support this group offers for VCDS, was looking for the justification in spending 4x the price of OBDEleven.

 

I think that is a sensible thing to do.

 

I haven't made a purchase yet, and still undecided (hence my interest in this thread).

 

I have lots of questions around various aspects of VCDS and the alternatives which I need answering before taking the plunge, but I can tell you guys and gals are fiercely loyal to Ross Tech, and as such likely to be somewhat biased

 

Sorry if I got people's backs up. I'll leave it there.

 

 

 

 

 

[Gizmo]

@Magicdrshoon it’s not that we are blindly biased, but the support from Ross-Tech (via their forum or directly by e-mail) is second to non, coupled with FREE updates for life, it really isn’t that expensive when you consider what it can do, so genuine VCDS owners quite rightly IMO wish to protect the future of RT.

 

For most people however popping along to a VCDS owner close to them to do all your coding needs is the best solution financially. 

[Rustynuts]

I'm currently on my fourth VCDS lead. Each time I buy a new lead I sell on the old one. It's a fair thing to say that over the years I've spent about £1100 on buying the leads I've had, but factor into that the resale value of the leads I've sold as and when I've bought new, and overall I've got back about £750 from selling the old leads. That means of the £420 I have currently invested in the latest lead I've just about broken even if I were to sell it now at a slight loss. VCDS isn't a one off cost of a load of money down the drain, it's a comprehensive tool which will retain virtually all it's value for the life of the lead.

[SWBoy]

I've owned a Ross-Tech lead since 2003, upgrading twice and now have a HEX-NET, and I can confidently say that in saved diagnostic fees and ability to fix problems on my own cars I have saved many times the price of the leads I have purchased - even before taking into account what I've got back from selling my "old" leads.

 

Plus if you take into account the "beer tokens" I've earned from doing tweaks to other peoples cars (mostly members on owners forums I've been active on) then I'm really in a big positive situation.

 

On the very rare occasions I have had problems I've got answers quickly and clearly from Ross-Tech via their forum, how much is that worth? A lot in peace of mind I reckon.

 

As a retired electronics engineer and firmware developer I have absolutely no hesitation in saying that IMHO the quality of product (hardware & software) and support from Ross-Tech easily justifies the cost I have paid - making the savings I have made over the years a very real bonus.

[voxmagna]

A lot of the effort going into RT VCDS comes from buyers themselves although they also work hard in their product design to protect it, They have been clever to discover the PID values used exclusively by VAG diagnostics. They don't have access to an unlimited supply of new VAG engines as and when they are manufactured. Each new engine variant requires new label (helper) files normally included in vcds updates. However, this information is largely provided by the owner community who scan their cars and then send the results to Ross-Tech for them to release updates. That's how their business model works. If you look at what trade workshops use, they are often locked into an expensive yearly subscription and software that 'expires' if a subscription is not renewed. The VCDS GUI is pretty dated and largely unchanged from the early Windows and DOS releases and is now looking very amateurish and sad for their price. If you have ever 'driven' an OE manufacturers diagnostics they are worlds apart. However, VCDS is fairly bomb proof in beginners hands when used just for diagnostics and car bricking is not a high risk which it is with OE workshop diagnostics. Although I would never trust Chinese vcds ripoffs for re-coding my cars or even service interval resets, in fact I wouldn't trust any write instructions from them.

 

Look carefully at their license offers. I have one of the original HEX-CAN usb wired interfaces which came with no cripple limitation on the number of vehicles it would cover. If I found they were crippling my hardware after buying it, I would start a class action like the one against Apple for the older product speed downgrades!  Whilst I can see they are attempting to protect their products and business from the cloners it is a new business model more along commercial lines than previously where their product seemed to be aimed at enthusiasts for enthusiasts.  This strategy provides a greater incentive for companies to clone them or to develop substitutes. The vcds app itself has undergone some very significant changes over the years and the vast number of 'label' files required to cover each vehicle are now encrypted, whereas before you could easily work out their file structure and customize your own label file! I think there are some new products coming along now, including various version of ODIS from Asia which will give vcds a run for the money they want?

.

[SWBoy]

16 hours ago, voxmagna said:

the vast number of 'label' files required to cover each vehicle are now encrypted, whereas before you could easily work out their file structure and customize your own label file!

Purely because of the number of companies ripping off the label files that Ross-Tech and their customers had spent many years creating. Yes it's harder now to work out coding changes off the car (as you won't be able to read the label file without being connected to the ECU) but if that's what RT have to do to protect their IP then so be it.

[langers2k]

17 hours ago, voxmagna said:

I think there are some new products coming along now, including various version of ODIS from Asia which will give vcds a run for the money they want?

 

ODIS is the official VAG tool, almost every version online is cloned hardware and hacked software.

 

A genuine interface, licence and monthly fees per brand runs into the £1000's.

[rkhshm]

Hi Guys,

 

I got hooked onto this thread after trying to search for a way to enable video on the move.

I understand that its possible only via  a VCP .

But i would also like to understand what all can be tuned with a VCP VS a VCD.

Is there some location where i can see the capabilities of VCP and VCD?

 

My main requirements are generally only cosmetic stuff  like enable video on the move, probably increase the count of indicator from 3 to 5 on a soft touch.

Such kind of things.

[Gizmo]

VIM does indeed need VCP. 

 

VCP can do more than what VCDS is capable of doing, however there is a catch (isn’t there always!) as VCP is not as user friendly and also requires an annual subscription for updates. 

[SWBoy]

4 hours ago, Gizmo said:

VCP can do more than what VCDS is capable of doing,

Largely because Ross-Tech being a US company do not want to enable/disable things that might lead to them facing legal action for liability if someone is injured/killed - that's the US culture. Other developers in Eastern Europe do not have similar concerns...