9 hours ago, BigJase88 said:

Sorry but im not spending 30k on a corsa or a peugeot 208.

 

electric cars need to get into the real world.

 

why do they always have daft wheels on them as well 🤢

Total cost of ownership is always more important than straight RRP. When was the last time you've paid RRP on any new car?   (except Tesla, which I doublt you've ever bought one ) 

 

The wheels are daft because manufacturers seem to think large wheels are premium. I'd rather have a 15 inch aerodynamic wheel on my Octavia and Leaf than the 18inch and 17inch, which come as part of highly spec'd cars. 

 

Edited 6 February, 20206 yr by wyx087

TESLA is taking the pith with RRP's but then people are buying / leasing. Why would they turn out basic cars with longer ranges!

PSA RRP's also a pith take.

 

 

Edited 6 February, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

9 minutes ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

TESLA is taking the pith with RRP's as well.

PSA RRP's also.

 

 

£51,000 without any costs for electric. Makes my £24,300 Superb with nearly 360bhp seem an absolute bargain. Will take me quite some time at £170 per month for fuel to reach £51,000.

You need to get on with Vlogging, or get with it like @lol-lol & work harder & you to can be earning millions working in Imports and Exports.

19 minutes ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

You need to get on with Vlogging, or get with it like @lol-lol & work harder & you to can be earning millions working in Imports and Exports.

If I was daft enough to spend £50,000 on a car it would be something exciting (scary) like a BMW M2 Competition.

4 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

If I was daft enough to spend £50,000 on a car it would be something exciting (scary) like a BMW M2 Competition.

  According to EVdatabase, Model 3 Long range is 443 hp, similar performance to BMW M2 competition, in a more practical package. 

 

Energy difference = 15p - 3p => 12p per mile 

10k miles per year = £1200 price difference 

tax difference = 460- 320 => £140 

maintenance cost = probably £500 every 2 years (BMW M probably cost quite a lot) - £100 = £400 for 2 years, not counting tyres, which will be similar for both cars 

(Because Tesla only need a few components changed when needed, no need for regular servicing https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122251_tesla-eliminates-annual-service-keeps-some-periodic-maintenance)

 

Overall difference over 5 years => £7700 cheaper on Model 3 LR, for similar performance to M2 but a lot more practical and future update unlocking new features as the car ages over the years. 

 

It's like choosing between a car and a horse waggon.  I understand some people are attached to the horse, but end of the day, the convenience, running cost and practicality will win over everyone eventually. 

17 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

If I was daft enough to spend £50,000 on a car it would be something exciting (scary) like a BMW M2 Competition.

 

I would rather have the quickest car than the noisiest car.  Not to sure about Tesla handling kits.

 

M4 competition around Oulton Park quite impressive. 

 

I want to waft around in silence knowing I can out accelerate any M series dinosaur in to a fading image in the rear view mirror. 

24 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

  According to EVdatabase, Model 3 Long range is 443 hp, similar performance to BMW M2 competition, in a more practical package. 

 

Energy difference = 15p - 3p => 12p per mile 

10k miles per year = £1200 price difference 

tax difference = 460- 320 => £140 

maintenance cost = probably £500 every 2 years (BMW M probably cost quite a lot) - £100 = £400 for 2 years, not counting tyres, which will be similar for both cars 

(Because Tesla only need a few components changed when needed, no need for regular servicing https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122251_tesla-eliminates-annual-service-keeps-some-periodic-maintenance)

 

Overall difference over 5 years => £7700 cheaper on Model 3 LR, for similar performance to M2 but a lot more practical and future update unlocking new features as the car ages over the years. 

 

It's like choosing between a car and a horse waggon.  I understand some people are attached to the horse, but end of the day, the convenience, running cost and practicality will win over everyone eventually. 

My 170mph Superb can travel 698 miles on one tank of fuel £85 which no electric car on sale can get anywhere near. It's not always about pence per mile that only interests accountants.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Total cost of ownership is always more important than straight RRP. When was the last time you've paid RRP on any new car?   (except Tesla, which I doublt you've ever bought one ) 

 

The wheels are daft because manufacturers seem to think large wheels are premium. I'd rather have a 15 inch aerodynamic wheel on my Octavia and Leaf than the 18inch and 17inch, which come as part of highly spec'd cars. 

 

Actually bought 2 tesla’s new, stripped the batteries and motors out for my forklift trucks

11 hours ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

brake disc cooling is not needed when there is regen braking.

Well, unless regenerative braking can perform an emergency stop, that is one of the most stupid statements since a truck driver claimed to have "three sets of brakes on his truck" (meaning dual circuit air plus a handbrake).

@KenONeill  The brakes still get cooled, just maybe not required to the same degree, and they do not need to be.

I think you just act daft for affect.  An emergency stop is just that, put on your brakes.  It is not like being able to drive sportingly and not cooking brakes.

Like when you can use regen braking with an EV.

?

Do you run around the far flung place you live in the UK with red glowing brakes and doing emergency braking regularly.

 

PS

Just as well that the EV wheels are not such an open style on the cheaper EV's or not so cheap like the Peugeot e-208.

They are the usual crappy discs that are red with rust in no time, even when just new at a dealers as a demonstrator.

Those driving them are well advised to use braking with the foot brake to clear them  a bit at the start of trips.

If people do drive just using Regen Braking other than to 'Emergency Stop' they will not be lasting to a 18,000 mile service.

 

http://thebrakereport.com/clean-air-dirty-brakes

 

 

Regen braking can bring cars to a stop, especially where there is that at your finger tips  (paddle shifter) and a choice of as much as 8 settings and one pedal driving.

Much like some drive a DSG, the difference then is the need for just a we dab of the brake pedal to to the complete stop.

 

Brakes are still combined with the regen & motor, but the driver is not touching the brake pedal.

 

 

 

@7 min 30 secs.  I liked this re-coup braking on the Peugeot  e-208 and i can drive happily on back roads with the braking with the stick at B or back to B when needed and no brake lights coming on and no need to use the brake pedal unless Emergency Braking was needed.

But then i do that anyway using downshifts with a DSG. Miles of smiles and brake pedal never touched.

 

 

Edited 6 February, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

1 hour ago, shyVRS245 said:

My 170mph Superb can travel 698 miles on one tank of fuel £85 which no electric car on sale can get anywhere near. It's not always about pence per mile that only interests accountants.

I'm so sorry that you have to drive 698 miles every day. In that case, battery EV isn't for you and probably will never be. 

 

Otherwise for most people, a ~200 miles range in EV is more than enough for daily use and occational long distance driving. 

24 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

I'm so sorry that you have to drive 698 miles every day. In that case, battery EV isn't for you and probably will never be. 

 

Otherwise for most people, a ~200 miles range in EV is more than enough for daily use and occational long distance driving. 

I think you missed my point this thread is for EV's under £30,000. Nissan Leaf etc. No I only do 54 miles per day but all affordable electric cars are too small for our frequent holiday trips (no luggage space due to batteries).

Plenty Singles or couples can get around on holiday, even driving holidays quite well in 2 seaters, and a car with 2 seats and rears folded or just left in place.

Sports car type things, or even a Smart ForTwo.

 

Just dawned on me that there really is not many new 4 seater 2 doors or 2 + 2's available. 

So as a small 2 door commuter that you can carry passengers in there is a limited choice these days.

 

 

 

Edited 6 February, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

5 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

I think you missed my point this thread is for EV's under £30,000. Nissan Leaf etc. No I only do 54 miles per day but all affordable electric cars are too small for our frequent holiday trips (no luggage space due to batteries).

54 miles can be done with a £7000 first generation Nissan Leaf. I drive my first-gen 24kWh Leaf 56 miles every day. It's certainly more affordable to own than my Octavia. 

 

If it's luggage space you need, a properly designed EV from the grounds up can hold as much luggage as your Skoda Superb. 

https://www.whatcar.com/advice/buying/biggest-boots-10-suitcases/n18795

(at £40,000, not far off £~33k Superb sportline, total cost of ownership will certainly be similar, if not cheaper)

My Area Manager has just left after a visit and told me our company want him to change his diesel Astra for a Renault Zoe or BMW i3 but he has 3 grand children and they will not fit. He's on a limited company budget. Oh dear back to the drawing board. Most of these small electric cars have 2 rear seat belts to save weight apparently.

@shyVRS245

He would just have to not get one of the most of's and go for one that is a 5 seater like many do.

There are Astra sized ones to choose from.

Dundee has fleets of EV Taxis. So do other places.

 

Your company might look closer at the savings for them with an employee using an EV and make a sensible budget for a car for the employees private use as well as for business.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 February, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

He is going to check out the 5 door Vauxhall Corsa EV (I believe you have one on order George) when his local Coventry dealer get one in stock.We are going to Heathrow in April with 2 friends to catch a flight to California with 4 large suitcases (4 adults) and have the choice of taking my Superb or friends Volvo XC60 both large enough to cope. Might be a squeeze in a Nissan Leaf or Mini EV.

Corsa EV's maybe in at Dealers next week.  Next Friday for my local dealer.  

The Demonstrator petrols and diesels in now are identical interiors.

Not enough room in the rear for me if 1 child seat, 1 booster and and adult is to be carried.

Edited 6 February, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

18 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

We are going to Heathrow in April with 2 friends to catch a flight to California with 4 large suitcases (4 adults) and have the choice of taking my Superb or friends Volvo XC60 both large enough to cope. Might be a squeeze in a Nissan Leaf or Mini EV.

I'm sure the Model 3 will be fine in this instance. The MG ZS EV might also work, it is a mid-sized SUV and it only costs £22,000. 

 

It feels as though you are deliberately cherrypicking your EV choices to make a point. A point that isn't valid. 

 

Picking on Leaf is like saying "Might be a squeeze in a Golf." 

Another Government Minister last night was on about the scrapping of Grants to buy EV's in the UK.

 

Really the Tax Payer Funded subsidies of £3,500 to Manufacturers / Dealerships to be selling EV cars with ridiculously high RRP's.

 

The Chancellor or the Secretary of State for Transport, maybe a Minister for Transport or even an Environment Minister needs to clear up what is happening before the Budget in March.

Edited 7 February, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

Cash subsidies are not useful. As said, it allows cars to be sold at a mark up or charge points to be more expensive than necessary. 

Take Outlander PHEV, the moment government removed PHEV £2500 subsidy a few years ago, they reduced their price by £2500 overnight. 

 

England could learn a lot from Scotland, a 0% government subsidied loan will work wonders. Or Norway, 0% VAT on EV. Anything is better than cash subsidies. 

 

 

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

I'm sure the Model 3 will be fine in this instance. The MG ZS EV might also work, it is a mid-sized SUV and it only costs £22,000. 

 

It feels as though you are deliberately cherrypicking your EV choices to make a point. A point that isn't valid. 

 

Picking on Leaf is like saying "Might be a squeeze in a Golf." 

 

I am starting to look at the MG ZS EV rather than the Zoe.  Less range but seems to be more car, cheaper and charge better in cooler weather.

 

470 litre boot.  200 mile range if one is sensible with ones route and using eco mode.

 

Just got to get over having an MG badge.  After years in the Triumph Sport six club with Heralds and Spitfires have an MG seems like a RC marrying a Proddie.  Like everything else, Volvos etc, it is just another Chinese company.

 

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Cash subsidies are not useful. As said, it allows cars to be sold at a mark up or charge points to be more expensive than necessary. 

Take Outlander PHEV, the moment government removed PHEV £2500 subsidy a few years ago, they reduced their price by £2500 overnight. 

 

England could learn a lot from Scotland, a 0% government subsidied loan will work wonders. Or Norway, 0% VAT on EV. Anything is better than cash subsidies. 

 

 

 

Even reducing EVs to 5% VAT rather than right down to zero ie in line with electricity, condoms, Energy-saving items such as solar panels, Nicotine patches and other aids to help stop smoking and Children's car seats.

.

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/grenfell-garage-electrifying-vws-motoring-icon

Could be an interesting  option.