keyfob battery failing with *no* warning

[agedbriar]

Just changed the batteries in both KESSY keyfobs after 18 months of ownership.

It started to refuse unlocking at the passenger door. The driver side door and Start button were still working flawlessly.

[FrankLK]

Sooo, like that. 

I was annoyed by swapping memories of key fobs if we are in car with 2 key fobs and than last week I found out that in car settings it is possible to change this to manual, this week it is on test . 

[Robbijay]

Just saw this thterad wile ryign to do some research....

 

about 18months ago i had two fobs for my feb 18 Octavia vRS replaced by skoda as neither worked and putting a new battery in didn't solve anything (I didn;t expect it to as i had no warning on the dash).

Fastforward to today and i got the same issue with my third original key. I changed the battery and it didn't work, so I booked it in after assumring them i'd changed the battery. I then remembered that i hd some other branded batteries that i had order and could try. I put one of those Energisers in and it worked again right away, so suspet this was simply the issue with the first 2 as well. on both occasions i had NO warning at all from the car, surely this can't be right? can anyone confirm that they have had the low battery message on anything with a colour screen/MIB2 system?

[Karock]

Yes, I had a Low battery Key fob warning on the round screen, but it only appeared once.

[Robbijay]

The round screen?

[Karock]

Yes, the information dial straight in front of the steering wheel not the Infotainment screen, not sure what its correct name is.

[shyVRS245]

29 minutes ago, Karock said:

Yes, the information dial straight in front of the steering wheel not the Infotainment screen, not sure what its correct name is.

Called Maxidot Screen in the brochure.

[OldKaroq]

20 hours ago, Karock said:

Yes, I had a Low battery Key fob warning on the round screen, but it only appeared once.

 

I had a similar problem, replaced batterie s 11 months ago with Renata 2025, a brand I considered to be good. But like others with no warning as I was locked out of the car. I emailed Renata and got what I thought was a  good reply...

 

 

 

Regarding your finding:

On testing, the voltage was down sufficiently to stop the keyless entry from working. So the battery lasted just 11 months.

 

Regarding your comment:

2025 (180mAh) would appear to be greater than that of the Panasonic 2025 (165mAh)

The capacity alone does not say anything about the pulse capability of a battery.

 

The explanation is quite simple.

We have different batteries for different applications for CR batteries as well as for silver batteries.

 

For a car key as a good example, consider that the different temperatures (summer and winter) have a strong influence on the pulse capability.

Therefore datasheets are always using room temperature as base. (Independent of the manufacturer)

Using a battery that is not designed for higher pulses may mean that not all the capacity in the battery can be used.

 

For pulse application like your car key we recommend to use our CR20XXMFR (165mAh)

For application without pulse demand we (like a real time clock) we recommend to use our CR20XX.MFR (180mAh)

Attached I send you the two related datasheets.

 

I hope I have been able to give you an understandable explanation with these details.

 

Best regards from Switzerland

 

 

 

I won't bore you with the data sheets. I replaced the batteries with Energizer which are 165mAh as above. Less is more, it seems!!

 

 

[Robbijay]

7 minutes ago, OldKaroq said:

 

I had a similar problem, replaced batterie s 11 months ago with Renata 2025, a brand I considered to be good. But like others with no warning as I was locked out of the car. I emailed Renata and got what I thought was a  good reply...

 

 

 

Regarding your finding:

On testing, the voltage was down sufficiently to stop the keyless entry from working. So the battery lasted just 11 months.

 

Regarding your comment:

2025 (180mAh) would appear to be greater than that of the Panasonic 2025 (165mAh)

The capacity alone does not say anything about the pulse capability of a battery.

 

The explanation is quite simple.

We have different batteries for different applications for CR batteries as well as for silver batteries.

 

For a car key as a good example, consider that the different temperatures (summer and winter) have a strong influence on the pulse capability.

Therefore datasheets are always using room temperature as base. (Independent of the manufacturer)

Using a battery that is not designed for higher pulses may mean that not all the capacity in the battery can be used.

 

For pulse application like your car key we recommend to use our CR20XXMFR (165mAh)

For application without pulse demand we (like a real time clock) we recommend to use our CR20XX.MFR (180mAh)

Attached I send you the two related datasheets.

 

I hope I have been able to give you an understandable explanation with these details.

 

Best regards from Switzerland

 

 

 

I won't bore you with the data sheets. I replaced the batteries with Energizer which are 165mAh as above. Less is more, it seems!!

 

 

I think I kinda follow that....

 

I don’t really mind my battery lasting a year. What I do mind is the car NOT TELLING ME WHEN IT SAYS IN THE MANUAL THAT IT SHOULD!! If it just flashes a message up like it should then I’d change the battery or at least ensure I had spares with me.

[StEdmund]

On 09/01/2021 at 17:54, OldKaroq said:

For pulse application like your car key we recommend to use our CR20XXMFR (165mAh)

For application without pulse demand we (like a real time clock) we recommend to use our CR20XX.MFR (180mAh)

 

 

I had long-ago concluded that there were differences in performance between these types of battery - but had assumed that it was largely down to brand i.e. you got what you paid for; I had no idea that there were variations within a brand. I looked at a Renata pack and at a Panasonic pack - and could find no other information other that that they were CR2025. I don't understand what is meant by 'pulse capacity' - I thought that it might mean that the battery is only called into action when you e.g. press the fob to open the door ........... but isn't the battery in constant demand as it's always emitting a signal?

 

Just going back to my Karoq, and my post of 28th September (earlier in this thread) ............

My Karoq went in for service and the dealer changed the Panasonic that had been there for 3 weeks for a new unbranded one - he claimed that the 'battery was showing low-voltage'. At that time, the battery in my 'spare' fob was still operating after 2 years. Subsequently, on 23rd December the battery in my main key-fob i.e. the unbranded one supplied by the dealer, failed after 3 months; by that time, the original battery in my spare fob failed as well. So - I changed both defunct batteries for new Panasonics ....... and I'll continue to monitor their progress closely. I will also write to the dealer while the car is under warranty to inform him that their battery had failed after 3 months and that I was giving notice that this could be some sort of failure of the key-fob.

 

My advice to anyone with this type of kessy system is to keep a spare battery and small screwdriver in the glove-box (and in the house) - and do a trial run of getting into the car via the manual-lock on the driver's side door.

 

[Robbijay]

Of course this could all be avoided if the bloody car did what it was supposed to and actually warned you that the battery was low! My Toyota will flash a yellow key at me for a good few attempts before the battery actually needs changing!

 

I think the difference between the pulse versions is the higher current ones are better for short duration high current demand but won’t last as long overall before starting draining when a demand is placed on them, whereas the lower current one stay at max capacity for a longer overall time but won’t be able to provide as high current if/when needed.

Edited 12 January, 2021 by Robbijay

[OldKaroq]

6 minutes ago, StEdmund said:

 

I had long-ago concluded that there were differences in performance between these types of battery - but had assumed that it was largely down to brand i.e. you got what you paid for; I had no idea that there were variations within a brand. I looked at a Renata pack and at a Panasonic pack - and could find no other information other that that they were CR2025. I don't understand what is meant by 'pulse capacity' - I thought that it might mean that the battery is only called into action when you e.g. press the fob to open the door ........... but isn't the battery in constant demand as it's always emitting a signal?

 

Just going back to my Karoq, and my post of 28th September (earlier in this thread) ............

My Karoq went in for service and the dealer changed the Panasonic that had been there for 3 weeks for a new unbranded one - he claimed that the 'battery was showing low-voltage'. At that time, the battery in my 'spare' fob was still operating after 2 years. Subsequently, on 23rd December the battery in my main key-fob i.e. the unbranded one supplied by the dealer, failed after 3 months; by that time, the original battery in my spare fob failed as well. So - I changed both defunct batteries for new Panasonics ....... and I'll continue to monitor their progress closely. I will also write to the dealer while the car is under warranty to inform him that their battery had failed after 3 months and that I was giving notice that this could be some sort of failure of the key-fob.

 

My advice to anyone with this type of kessy system is to keep a spare battery and small screwdriver in the glove-box (and in the house) - and do a trial run of getting into the car via the manual-lock on the driver's side door.

 

 

I know its a bit confusing isn't it!!

 

I take the "pulse capacity" to be the fob sending a signal from the fob to the car on a regular basis. Quite different on a battery powering a clock for example, where the power is given to the clock mechanism as a steady flow.

 

You are quite correct - I had to dig a little to find the differences in battery capacity in mAh. My interpretation is that the lower capacity is needed. But no clue why! 

 

[Spd1552]

Hi, im still having problems on and off with my skoda karoq, locking itself when it likes, not starting unless i unlock because its locked itself whilst im sat in the driver seat, and so on. Kessy not working properly, locking me out, it goes on.

Have you forwarded your comments and finding to Skoda UK for their comments?

 

[Jim69]

Apparently it’s a fault with the door locks was discussed on another topic I’m having the same problem myself car is due a service in the next few weeks so will get it sorted then the locks need replaced

[CJJE]

A few thoughts on the subject...

 

My car should be safe for a while, but from what I've learned so far the dashboard warning can be missed with a KESSY car because as soon as you press the Start button it disappears. But does the warning get logged in the Notification and Vehicle Health reports in My Skoda? or on the dashboard or info screen when you turn the engine off?

 

Chris

[Robbijay]

15 minutes ago, CJJE said:

A few thoughts on the subject...

 

My car should be safe for a while, but from what I've learned so far the dashboard warning can be missed with a KESSY car because as soon as you press the Start button it disappears. But does the warning get logged in the Notification and Vehicle Health reports in My Skoda? or on the dashboard or info screen when you turn the engine off?

 

Chris

Thanks for that, but when does the warning pop up if it disappears when you push the button? In mine, nothing even happens til I push the button! At the moment when I do that the service warning comes on because it’s due, followed by driver selection??

[CJJE]

17 hours ago, Robbijay said:

Thanks for that, but when does the warning pop up if it disappears when you push the button? In mine, nothing even happens til I push the button! At the moment when I do that the service warning comes on because it’s due, followed by driver selection??

My understanding (based on non-KESSY cars) is that the warning appears when you turn on the ignition, and disappears when you start the engine. When you're using a non-KESSY key, this gives you time to see the warning. But with KESSY, as soon as you press the Start button to turn the ignition on, the engine starts (hopefully!) So the only way to see the warning is to stop the engine starting immediately - with a DSG car you can do this by NOT having your foot on the brake pedal for instance. So it would be nice to know if the warning is logged by the car and visible later in the My Skoda app or on the infotainment screen.

 

Chris

[DBSurrey]

I have KESSY on my Karoq.  In fact when you depress the button the ignition comes on.  To start the car you must depress the button with your foot on the brake pedal.  So it should be possible to see the message by pressing the button (ignition on) and not with your foot on the brake pedal.  A couple of weeks ago, with a 2 month old battery in the key fob, I saw a message "Key not detected" when my key was in the driver's door compartment i.e. inside the car and about 24 inches from the ignition button.  I have not seen the message since (and not changed the battery) despite driving the car with the key in the same place in the driver's door.  Needless to say I carry a couple of spare batteries in the glove box !  The battery in my main key fob failed after 23 months from new.  My 2 spare fobs (never used) still appear to work after 26 months.

[Berisford]

9 minutes ago, DBSurrey said:

I have KESSY on my Karoq.  In fact when you depress the button the ignition comes on.  To start the car you must depress the button with your foot on the brake pedal.  So it should be possible to see the message by pressing the button (ignition on) and not with your foot on the brake pedal.  A couple of weeks ago, with a 2 month old battery in the key fob, I saw a message "Key not detected" when my key was in the driver's door compartment i.e. inside the car and about 24 inches from the ignition button.  I have not seen the message since (and not changed the battery) despite driving the car with the key in the same place in the driver's door.  Needless to say I carry a couple of spare batteries in the glove box !  The battery in my main key fob failed after 23 months from new.  My 2 spare fobs (never used) still appear to work after 26 months.

I sometimes get that too despite the battery being reasonably new - got to be a problem for most, that dilemma of where to put the key whilst in the car - I tend to favour the centre armrest box but it often rattles in there - I suppose my pocket would be best but its such a chunky fob, I'm not comfortable with it in my trouser pocket........

[CJJE]

20 minutes ago, Berisford said:

I sometimes get that too despite the battery being reasonably new - got to be a problem for most, that dilemma of where to put the key whilst in the car - I tend to favour the centre armrest box but it often rattles in there - I suppose my pocket would be best but its such a chunky fob, I'm not comfortable with it in my trouser pocket........

The central armrest box has a rectangular hole in the removable compartment that holds the key - as long as you haven't put it in a thick cover

 

Chris

[Berisford]

11 hours ago, CJJE said:

The central armrest box has a rectangular hole in the removable compartment that holds the key - as long as you haven't put it in a thick cover

 

Chris

Alas my key won’t fit as I have a rubber ‘sock’ on the key after dropping and busting a VW one some years ago, the price for replacement was quite eye watering at the time.

[CJJE]

7 minutes ago, Berisford said:

Alas my key won’t fit as I have a rubber ‘sock’ on the key after dropping and busting a VW one some years ago, the price for replacement was quite eye watering at the time.

Ahh... I have one on mine too, but it must be a thinner version as my key just fits in still

 

Chris

[Spd1552]

Personally I'm getting fed up with the Kessey system on my Karoq, almost to the point where i wish id never bought the car. I feel that i cant trust kessey to safely secure the car.

I like to know for definite that the car is actually locked by trying to open the doors, but you cant do that with kessey. Also having a key fob thats continually searching is a bonkers idea that just drains the batteries.

Appointment made to have mine sorted if possible, will keep you informed of any developments.

🤯

 

[DBSurrey]

I have KESSY on my Karoq.  In fact when you depress the button the ignition comes on.  To start the car you must depress the button with your foot on the brake pedal.  So it should be possible to see the message by pressing the button (ignition on) and not with your foot on the brake pedal.  A couple of weeks ago, with a 2 month old battery in the key fob, I saw a message "Key not detected" when my key was in the driver's door compartment i.e. inside the car and about 24 inches from the ignition button.  I have not seen the message since (and not changed the battery) despite driving the car with the key in the same place in the driver's door.  Needless to say I carry a couple of spare batteries in the glove box !  The battery in my key fob failed after 23 monthsbatte

 

I have tested it works by putting my key fob in a "Farady" bag which screens out the signal sent to the car.  I could have given it to the wife to take shopping and then tested while she was away.  The system does work.  If I had to change the batteries each year for peace of mind I think it's worth it but I have had a duff one which only lasted about 2 weeks !  I think the problem is many outlets buy a large stock and keep them quite a while.  Also, these are made in their millions so I expect a duff battery now and again - hence the spare 2 in the glove box.

[CJJE]

2 hours ago, Spd1552 said:

Personally I'm getting fed up with the Kessey system on my Karoq, almost to the point where i wish id never bought the car. I feel that i cant trust kessey to safely secure the car.

I like to know for definite that the car is actually locked by trying to open the doors, but you cant do that with kessey. Also having a key fob thats continually searching is a bonkers idea that just drains the batteries.

Appointment made to have mine sorted if possible, will keep you informed of any developments.

🤯

 

Is yours a recent car? 

 

For mine at least, after locking the car by touching the outer 'dimple' you cannot unlock it for 2 seconds, so if you pull on the handle within this time period you can check the door is locked. (The indicators will also have flashed, as will the alarm light, and mirrors folded in if you've set that option.)

 

Recent key fobs have a motion sensor that turns off the radio signal after a short while, so at least it's not using the battery when hanging up overnight. 

 

Chris