14 minutes ago, mar-mite said:

newer charges detect the type of battery and charge accordingly

How?

Don't you have to select the type with button presses?

 

Yes, you have to select it.

Highly unlikely that a smart-charger is able to correctly identify what it is connected to - too many variables for a start. My Ring RSC608 certainly can't.

Got an mxs 7 as it has a lower pulsing voltage (14.7 rather than 15.8) in stage 1.

 

It has to be told the battery type too, but seems to be work well on both AGM and a standard battery.

18 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Got an mxs 7 as it has a lower pulsing voltage (14.7 rather than 15.8) in stage 1.

 

It has to be told the battery type too.

Oh is it voice activated  

2 minutes ago, Kenny R said:

Oh is it voice activated  

Thankfully not, just a functional button 😂

 

The car has the voice button and to say it’s useless at voice recognition would be too kind.

 

Charge AGM 

 

Discharging battery 😂

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Got an mxs 7 as it has a lower pulsing voltage (14.7 rather than 15.8) in stage 1.

 

I don't think I've actually seen the MXS 5 at stage 1.  Pretty much skips straight to 3 and usually quickly to 4.  I'm sure it goes via 1 and 2 but clearly  decides it doesn't need it and goes to 3+ 

48 minutes ago, Alex-W said:

 

I don't think I've actually seen the MXS 5 at stage 1.  Pretty much skips straight to 3 and usually quickly to 4.  I'm sure it goes via 1 and 2 but clearly  decides it doesn't need it and goes to 3+ 

I don’t personally think stage 1 is the big problem, although some say it is a problem. I wanted the supply function anyway, so didn’t take the risk.

 

The problem is the recon programme being used on AGM batteries as it often cooks them.

Edited 22 April, 20206 yr by cheezemonkhai

I often wonder if there is a benefit to annually discharging these batteries and allowing the de-sulphating program time to do its job, as, as said these CTEK chargers "flash past" the early stages if the battery is still in reasonable condition charge wise, I used to have it in my head that RECND was when de-sulphating was being done, but I think that RECND is only to "remix" the electrolyte that has probably become stratified.

 

@cheezemonkhai, which smart charger with supply function did you buy out of casual interest?  I bought the CTEK 25Amp one as a big birthday treat, and got it quite cheaply due to the edge of the outer box being slightly creased.

51 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

I don’t personally think stage 1 is the big problem, although some say it is a problem. I wanted the supply function anyway, so didn’t take the risk.

 

The problem is the recon programme being used on AGM batteries as it often cooks them.

 

Why does it have that functionality then?  

It's limited to only 1.8A  even at the higher voltage mind.  It'll generate more heat at the higher currents at the other stages.. unless you don't literally mean 'cook'.  

18 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

I often wonder if there is a benefit to annually discharging these batteries and allowing the de-sulphating program time to do its job, as, as said these CTEK chargers "flash past" the early stages if the battery is still in reasonable condition charge wise, I used to have it in my head that RECND was when de-sulphating was being done, but I think that RECND is only to "remix" the electrolyte that has probably become stratified.

 

@cheezemonkhai, which smart charger with supply function did you buy out of casual interest?  I bought the CTEK 25Amp one as a big birthday treat, and got it quite cheaply due to the edge of the outer box being slightly creased.

The problem is the recon function doesn’t account for a glass mat that stops or reduces fluid movement. Hence the potential for damage.

 

I didn’t literally mean cook, but I believe the high voltage damages the plates in some way as the electrolyte can’t move around in an agm as it can in normal batteries. No idea if efb would be ok or not.

 

AGM and recond not being used together is in some manuals.

 

Supply, I just purchased an mxs7 as it still has the 5 year as opposed to 2 year warranty on it.

Edited 22 April, 20206 yr by cheezemonkhai

I've never tried to use "AGM and RECND" together but for any CTEK chargers with both these options, I'd hope that you could not select both at the same time, poor programming if not.

 

I had already spotted references to not trying to use RECND with AGM so I have never been tempted to try that "trick" - my February 2011 AGM battery in my "not much used" Audi S4 seems to be nearly "as good as new" when tested - it tends to live connected to a CTEK MSX5 Tester/Charger mot of its life so doing that seems to be keeping it alive.

 

Edit:- I have run RCND on the EFB battery in my wife's 2015 Polo1.2TSI and it tested better, ie higher remaining life which means, I think, capacity, the next time I tested it using a CTEK tester, I also asked my older daughter to run normal charging using her new CTEK MSX5 first on her 2019 Leon Cupra until it was back fully charged, then the next day run RECND as that battery's remaining life looked seriously low for the age of that car, the last time I checked it both using VCDS and a CTEK tester.

Edited 22 April, 20206 yr by rum4mo

On 17/04/2020 at 10:11, Moosekat said:

Thanks for everything guys. 

I think I am going to get the Varta from Tayna, which looks great. My only issue is reprogramming my Octavia for the new battery. Does not seem to be anyone near me (Maidstone) with VCDS.  Anyway I have a pic of the battery in my car at the moment to make sure I am replacing it with the right one. 

What are the downsides of not reprogramming the car when installing a new battery??

 

I installed mine in my '63 Octavia vRS in July '19.

(E39 Varta Start-Stop Plus 096 AGM Car Battery 12V 70Ah (570901076) £140 Inc VAT delivered from Tayna)

 

No recoding or VCDS editing done. Zero issues with the electrical system.

10 minutes ago, Pilotguy said:

 

I installed mine in my '63 Octavia vRS in July '19.

(E39 Varta Start-Stop Plus 096 AGM Car Battery 12V 70Ah (570901076) £140 Inc VAT delivered from Tayna)

 

No recoding or VCDS editing done. Zero issues with the electrical system.

 

I don't think that is the correct answer, just an answer based on your observations, if/when I replace any of the EFB or AGM batteries in my cars, I would expect that I would, based on casual observations, come to the same conclusion - but it would not mean that "things have been optimised" more that "things were okayish", so I always intend to recode every new battery.

rac shop open

3 hours ago, Pilotguy said:

No recoding or VCDS editing done. Zero issues with the electrical system.

 

That you know of or have found yet..........

 

The state of decay and type of battery you take off also makes a difference as to the issues you may face.

 

The correct way is to properly code the new battery to the car. It is that way for good reason.

 

There is a lot you may choose not to do and may get away with but that still does not make it the right way to do things.

7 hours ago, rum4mo said:

I often wonder if there is a benefit to annually discharging these batteries and allowing the de-sulphating program time to do its job, as, as said these CTEK chargers "flash past" the early stages if the battery is still in reasonable condition charge wise, I used to have it in my head that RECND was when de-sulphating was being done, but I think that RECND is only to "remix" the electrolyte that has probably become stratified.

There is no benefit to discharging any lead acid battery. You just cause sulphation to start if you do which needs to be undone by a full recharge immediately after. If the voltage stays well above 12v, there will be no sulphation to worry about. Recon is only best for reviving deep discharged batteries that have been in that condition for a few days or more with likely sulphation present. Drop the battery voltage below 12v and sulphation starts immediately. Leaving a battery discharged causes the sulphation to harden and crystallise. Once it crystallises, it’s very hard to reverse and you lose storage capacity as a result. 

 

AGM glass mats hold just the right quantity of electrolyte for the full lifecycle of the battery. The mats are no wetter than a soggy dish cloth or wet cotton wool and there is no excess fluid sitting in the casing. Overcharging with regular reconditioning risks reducing what little moisture is present ruining the battery so it is best to leave recon mode for deep discharged batteries that have been left for a few weeks to see if they can be shocked awake and revived.
AGMs can be left discharged for a month and still be brought back to life so long as the voltage has always previously been well maintained above 12v.

 

EFB are obviously wet as you can hear the electrolyte sloshing around when shaking the battery. The Varta EFB’s have special motion activated mixing elements in each cell to prevent stratification so there is no need to recon these either if the have been maintained at the correct voltage and the vehicle has been in fairly active use. Even lockdown conditions won’t allow stratification to occur at any significant level to warrant using recon mode.

 

18 minutes ago, BigEjit said:

Drop the battery voltage below 12v and sulphation starts immediately. 

 

Does this apply to brief dips below 12v?  I have an extension plugged into my cig socket with a hardware switch to save from unplugging all the time. It has a voltage readout on top of the plug. I don't pretend to believe it 100% but pretty sure it's in the ballpark. When cranking the engine it drops to 9.Xv. Is this a problem?

Sulphation starts as soon as the voltage drops below 12v. It’s an unavoidable chemical response. However, it is immediately resolved when the voltage returns to 12v and above.

 

Every time you use an electrical device on the vehicle circuit, it takes its bit of energy and the system voltage drops slightly in response. The biggest hit is from the starter motor operating which causes the biggest voltage drop due to the energy it needs to crank the engine. Battery voltage does drop very low but it’s not for long and there is ample capacity in the battery to compensate for the temporary shock. That’s why wipers temporarily stop on the screen when the starter activates. It takes around 250 seconds to fully discharge a battery to 6v at peak output so a quick flick of the starter is no issue. 

 

You should see the voltage rise to about 15v and fall away again towards 12v in normal running conditions. That will be the alternator switching in and out and the battery maintaining the circuit voltage minus a bit for active electricals. 

13 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

Does this apply to brief dips below 12v?

No.

1 hour ago, MarkyG82 said:

 

Does this apply to brief dips below 12v?  I have an extension plugged into my cig socket with a hardware switch to save from unplugging all the time. It has a voltage readout on top of the plug. I don't pretend to believe it 100% but pretty sure it's in the ballpark. When cranking the engine it drops to 9.Xv. Is this a problem?

 

If it makes any difference, years ago when all cars had distributors and coils, some/all coils were rated as 9Volt coils and while the starter was turning over the engine, an inline dropper resistor was taken out of circuit as the normal/typical battery voltage during cranking was 9Volts, then when the starter key returned to the run position the coil supply was fed back through the inline dropper resistor or in Ford's case a length of resistive wire!

Halfords mobile fitting service installed a new AGM battery in my Fabia at the weekend. I watched him program it in through the livingroom window. The battery comes with a 5 year warranty. If its not programmed correctly they lose! Its made a huge difference. The old battery was knackered and the car was desperately charging it flat out all the time. The new one just gets a trickle most of the time unless you brake or back off the throttle.

 

Thats interesting, so does the Halfords "tyresonthedrive" service recode as part of replacement?

 

Since they appear to use Yuasa AGM 096 batteries (from the photos at least) I think I might have found a solution to my own problem.

 

On 23/04/2020 at 13:32, megashorts said:

Halfords mobile fitting service installed a new AGM battery in my Fabia at the weekend. I watched him program it in through the livingroom window. The battery comes with a 5 year warranty. If its not programmed correctly they lose! Its made a huge difference. The old battery was knackered and the car was desperately charging it flat out all the time. The new one just gets a trickle most of the time unless you brake or back off the throttle.

 

The recode for the new battery is definitely done as part of the replacement.