1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[Darkslider]

12 minutes ago, DC04R said:

 

Thanks.

 

Ok now im lost, haha. 

 

2009 was a fl mk2? Thought all fl mk2 were the better tfsi (just a tensioner to future proof).

What is it exactly i should prefer the car to be? 60/11/12/61 plate mk2? Be weary of pfl mk2 and the mk3 as they have the more problematic tsi?

PFL: pre facelift.

 

The older looking MK2 Octavia. These had the more reliable TFSI engine which has a few common things you might want to replace but they're all cheap and easily accessible. Even if you get one that needs the cam chain doing its on top of the engine at the other end of the cams to the belt and should be less than £500 to do at an indy.

 

The FL (facelift) has a more rounded front profile with swept back headlights. I *think* the engines changed from the more reliable TFSI to the lesser TSI with this facelift, but I've seen older Octavias listed as being TSI engined so I'm not 100%. That could be seller error though. These are the cars you really want to avoid, but if you absolutely must buy one do your checks and make sure it's not the Gen 2 EA888 engine, it was the worst out of the three and almost guaranteed to have problems of some kind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

796c48e93ea3b98e4fa2e3bf354eccc1.webp skoda_octavia_vrs05.webp

[DC04R]

6 minutes ago, Darkslider said:

PFL: pre facelift.

 

The older looking MK2 Octavia. These had the more reliable TFSI engine which has a few common things you might want to replace but they're all cheap and easily accessible. Even if you get one that needs the cam chain doing its on top of the engine at the other end of the cams to the belt and should be less than £500 to do at an indy.

 

The FL (facelift) has a more rounded front profile with swept back headlights. I *think* the engines changed from the more reliable TFSI to the lesser TSI with this facelift, but I've seen older Octavias listed as being TSI engined so I'm not 100%. That could be seller error though. These are the cars you really want to avoid, but if you absolutely must buy one do your checks and make sure it's not the Gen 2 EA888 engine, it was the worst out of the three and almost guaranteed to have problems of some kind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

796c48e93ea3b98e4fa2e3bf354eccc1.webp 133.98 kB · 1 download skoda_octavia_vrs05.webp 27.53 kB · 0 downloads

 

Ahhhhh ok.

 

Yeah I prefer the FL version of the mk2 so that's the one I've been looking at.

 

I thought the PFL was a TSI, the FL was a TFSI (better) and the mk3 reverted back to the TSI.

 

In that case I need to be breaking the bank and getting a mk3 by the sounds of it, bugger.

 

Really don't like the PFL Mk2 and I don't want an old motor either. Shame as I saw a white FL mk2 yesterday in Warrington and it looked great!

 

Cheers - so EA888 (Tfsi) is the one to avoid, in a nutshell? And there are 2 versions of this -  gen2 being the no no?

 

 Thanks.

Edited 8 August, 2019 by DC04R

[Darkslider]

There's three versions of the EA888, they're all **** but the 2nd one is the worst! 

 

Yeah if you want a reliable Skoda you need to be looking at cars older than 2007-8, which is a bit old for a lot of folk and they're difficult to find sub 100k examples. I agree with the looks too the facelift (especially vrs) does look better.

[DC04R]

Gotcha. Ok thanks. I thought the Octy VRs was supposed to be a reliable motor!

 

So a FL Mk2 would be ok as long as it's not the 2nd gen EA888 (How can you tell what gen it is?) and I make sure I get the preventative maintenance done straight away (tensioner and PCV). And same goes for a mk3 VRs (but will obvs be newer).

 

Maybe I'll look at a different car, ha. Sounds a minefield.

Edited 8 August, 2019 by DC04R

[Babs]

Take all this with a grain of salt, you'll find many more people saying they've had problems than not simply because no one makes forum posts to say nothing went wrong 😂

[Blueglue]

25 minutes ago, Babs said:

Take all this with a grain of salt, you'll find many more people saying they've had problems than not simply because no one makes forum posts to say nothing went wrong 😂

 

Apart from the class action lawsuit in the US which resulted in a total recall of the tensioner due to the amount failing 🙈

 

[streetfighter73]

16 hours ago, Blueglue said:

 

Apart from the class action lawsuit in the US which resulted in a total recall of the tensioner due to the amount failing 🙈

 

And you get a £4800 bill for a new engine with no help from Skoda whatsoever. Just wait for the start up rattle. These engines are like a ticking time bomb. Unfortunatly l took the burying my head in the sand approach and are now £4800 pounds lighter with an ongoing 8 month ombudsmen case.

[Babs]

The Americans love their class action lawsuits haha!

[DC04R]

5 hours ago, streetfighter73 said:

And you get a £4800 bill for a new engine with no help from Skoda whatsoever. Just wait for the start up rattle. These engines are like a ticking time bomb. Unfortunatly l took the burying my head in the sand approach and are now £4800 pounds lighter with an ongoing 8 month ombudsmen case.

 

Start up rattle? Like a tinny heatshield noise from the lower part of the engine on the drivers' side? I've heard this now on a mk2 09 plate and a 16 plate mk3.

 

Are the mk3 as susceptible? No way to perform some early preventative maintenance?

[streetfighter73]

10 hours ago, DC04R said:

 

Start up rattle? Like a tinny heatshield noise from the lower part of the engine on the drivers' side? I've heard this now on a mk2 09 plate and a 16 plate mk3.

 

Are the mk3 as susceptible? No way to perform some early preventative maintenance?

This was what mine sounded like before the tensioner went. Got told nothing to worry about when l asked the dealer.

[DC04R]

Did that dealer supply you with a warranty tho!? In that case I'd accept his 'nothing to worry about claim'.

[streetfighter73]

5 minutes ago, DC04R said:

Did that dealer supply you with a warranty tho!? In that case I'd accept his 'nothing to worry about claim'.

It was out of warranty with a full Skoda service history.

Edited 13 August, 2019 by streetfighter73
Added additional info

[DC04R]

Should be ok then. My anxiety would be through the roof though after reading all this, doesn't take much for me.

[iandg7]

I'm another victim of the timing chain issue. No warning stared up and clunky. It's a 2011 ccza engine (in bits) unfortunately not financially viable to repair😭 Skoda don't want to know apart quoting £6k for repair!

[TheClient]

It is such a shame, such a financial sting and such a vulnerability for what is a £30 part and less than that to manufacture it.  I have a 2011 also, and had the tensioner and timing chain replaced the day after I bought it at 5 years and 34,000 miles.

[flinflon]

On ‎08‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 10:37, Darkslider said:

There's three versions of the EA888, they're all **** but the 2nd one is the worst! 

 

Yeah if you want a reliable Skoda you need to be looking at cars older than 2007-8, which is a bit old for a lot of folk and they're difficult to find sub 100k examples. I agree with the looks too the facelift (especially vrs) does look better.

 

According to www.enginewoorks.com 1.8 tsi EA888 gen2 is identified by codes CDAA, CDHA, CDHB.

My 59 plate is a CDAA with 32,000 miles. I use it to take rubbish to local dump and pick up groceries from nearby Tesco, and to
park in the narrow residential street outside my house to slow down idiot drivers!

 

[oska]

On 24/08/2019 at 12:55, TheClient said:

It is such a shame, such a financial sting and such a vulnerability for what is a £30 part and less than that to manufacture it.  I have a 2011 also, and had the tensioner and timing chain replaced the day after I bought it at 5 years and 34,000 miles.

How much for parts and labour? Mine's just hit 70K, had it since 40K and didn't realise the potential issue. Mines a 2010 FL TSi VRS.

[TheClient]

26 minutes ago, oska said:

How much for parts and labour? Mine's just hit 70K, had it since 40K and didn't realise the potential issue. Mines a 2010 FL TSi VRS.

Around £700 for new tensioner guides and main timing chain is about the going rate with genuine parts at an independent. More at a dealer usually.  Most people do not know about it, until it is too late. 

[anotherdownunder]

So this item would be suspect?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Timing-Chain-Kit-w-Tensioner-for-AUDI-VW-SKODA-1-8-2-0-CABA-CCZA-CDAA-CJEB-CDNC-/173839551024

 

Can't make out if V"K" tensioner?

 

tony

[TheClient]

Well it doesn't seem to say genuine so could be a china copy. It is much cheaper than I would expect for genuine parts. Given the 4 or 5 hour assembly / disassembly for the job and the resulting risk from any failure I wouldn't risk it. 

[flinflon]

Interesting article in Guardian online regarding timing chain failure in a 3 year old Volvo V60 engine. Two comments caught my eye ---

 

JefXX  says

 

1 MECHANICAL reliability is probably as good as ever, but overall reliability is probably no better than 20 years ago, due to all the complex electronics.

2 Consumer protection legislation means products are supposed to last a reasonable period of time. So if there is a catastrophic engine failure of this nature at 3 years, with FSH, it seems only fair to take the manufacturer to the small claims court over the matter.

 

GiftedBuTLazy  says in respnse

 

It's crazy but the timing chain falls under mechanical not electrical. Therefore more research needs to go in to this. This isn't new. VW released the 1.2 liter engine in a Polo that was timing chain driven, during my time at VW then subsequently Seat and Skoda it affected probably 3 in 10 cars whilst that doesn't seem high it is extremely considering this was rolled in a new model.

 

Please tell me that  3 in 10 VAG timing chain failures is an exaggeration!

[Ootohere]

@flinflon

It might be an exageration, 

but when it came to 1.4 TSI failures pre Euro 5 there was a high percentage.

OT but 1.4 TSI CAVE Engine Twincharger failures, not timing chain but other issues is grearter than 20%. Not that VW admit that.

Replacement engines failed, they discontined the CAVE in 2012 Timing chain failure not common and brought out the CTHE and still c0-cked up.

2012 on to 2014 & the Timing chain is an issue for quite a few.

 

1.2 TSI to 2012 Timing chain tensioners, 1.4, 1.8. 2.0.  there are lots.

 

1.4 TSI's.

In lots of vehicles.

http://adamlewin.co.uk/vw-mk5-golf-tsi-engine-timing-chain-problem

 

Edited 7 October, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[Alexius727]

hey guys...... looks like i am the latest victim of the ticking time bomb i.e. the 1.8 tsi engine..... today i was changing the spark plugs an behold found the spark plugs on piston 2 and 3 are oily. 1 is fine and 4 is not so fine. I guess i will have to get th pistons and the rings changed. 

 

Since i am supposed to change the pistons and rings i might as well get forged pistons this time. Will be changing my water pump as well as the chain tensioner. Please can u guys help me so as to where i can get the parts from? Links and suggestions are welcome.

 

[Alexius727]

On 25/06/2019 at 05:20, vwfan111 said:

Hello Skoda community, I might have some good news for you. I know about the piston/rings problems of the 1.8 TSI gen2 engine and there might be a simpler solution when these fail, other than replace all the internals. I have contacted KOLBENSCHMIDT a few months ago looking for a solution to buy a piston+rings kit having the new SLF type oil scraper rings (supposedly the best version), as well as the 21mm piston pin and thus compatible with the factory conrods. Apparently they (also) have kits of pistons+rings in this configuration, made under the ET Engineteam brand. Here are some examples:

 

https://www.ksmotorshop.com/article-detail/view/en/125551
https://www.ksmotorshop.com/article-detail/view/en/125553

 

The catch is that at the time I spoke to them, several months ago, they did not have them for all diameters (stock and oversize). Also they had both versions of kits in stock, with SLF rings but also some with the older DSF. They said the newest units were SLF so they expected to receive more of them.

 

If you have the piston/ring problem with this engine and are considering replacing them, I suggest you contact them and ask specifically for a kit of piston+rings with the SLF oil scraper rings and the 21mm piston pin. Since some time has passed since my enquiry you need to check if his version is still in stock/in production. After a few enquiries, I'm sure they will update their database and webpage, since they still have pictures of both versions on the site now. If need be ask them to physically check the stock, to make sure they have the right parts. If they do, then you will have the latest/best ring type and won't need to replace conrods, saving quite a bit on parts and labour. I have since bought a different car, but hopefully this option will offer a cheaper and more reliable solution for those with gen2 engines in all VAG cars.

Can you Share the links please. 

[vwfan111]

For oem (type) pistons you can check the KS website. Be sure to ask them if they have the parts you need before you order (so you don't have to replace rods too).

 

For forged pistons you can look at:

 

https://www.zrp-rods.com/results/?cat=3418&make=1251&model=2356

or

https://tomson.com.pl/product-eng-3232-JE-Pistons-forged-pistons-Audi-VW-1-8-TSI-CDAA-82-50-mm-CR-9-6-1.html

 

Be ware the two brands use different alloys, if I remember correctly ZRP was better for engines closer to stock because of smaller variation with heat, while JE better for heavily modified engines because it has higher resistance. But check that again, google "2618 aluminum vs 4032". And before you order, ask these sellers too to make sure they send you the right part.

 

Disclaimer: I haven't done this before, just researched it because I wanted a Gen2 EA888 engine. Ended up with a Gen3

Edited 29 October, 2019 by vwfan111