1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[Babs]

Mental, that!

[kirkynut]

This just popped up in my Facebook feed. Will be worth following:

 

 

Kirkynut 

[Skoda789]

So another one to add to the list.....

 

My Superb was purchased in March 2016 from a Skoda main dealer in March 2016 with 42,000 miles recorded.  I'd seen some of the stories of the 1.8 TSi burning oil but was hoping mine wouldn't be one of them.... I was wrong.

 

Within a few months it was clear it was burning oil but well within the manufacturers tolerances and because we liked the car decided to hang onto it.  I did however make sure I kept extending the Skoda used warranty each year at a cost of approx £200 per year.  Had a water pump replaced in 2017 under warranty.

 

In November 2018 the Superb starting burning an alarming amount of oil and took it to the main dealer who put it on the official test and drove the car over a weekend for approx. 200 miles and on their calculation was burning 1.75 litres per 1000km - wow!

 

Their recommendation was a replacement engine rather than pistons / rings etc. but the warranty company came back with a whole host of questions on the car.  I felt at this point the warranty company may have been trying to find a way to not fix the car but the dealer was great and just answered all the queries - including having to dismantle most of the engine and provide a myriad of measurements - cylinder wall / piston diameter etc.  Saw the engine when it was dismantled and it was a real mess - loads of burnt oil etc. - got some pics if anyone is interested.

 

Finally in Jan. 2019 the warranty company authorised a full engine replacement which was completed last week.  I got the dealer to drop a new clutch in as well and we picked the car up on Friday.  The car drives really well (and no death rattle on start up!)

 

Have to say main dealers sometimes get a bit of a kicking but the one I dealt with were really good and just wanted to get the car back on the road.  Had a courtesy car for the entire time as well (6 weeks!)

 

So glad I took out the warranty though, otherwise the car was basically a write off!!

 

Final thought - would love to know the final number of 1.8 TSis that have failed. . .  it cant be all of them can it?!

[pikpilot]

People have named bad Skoda dealers in the past, it would be nice if you could name this good Skoda dealer.

 

[TheClient]

Thing is though, although a very good result. How would the dealer have responded if they were responsible under consumer rights as the car was clearly faulty from your purchase and destined for failure from manufacture.

 

So it takes a warranty company to keep you solvent and skoda out of jail.  The whole situation is a ridiculeous quality and design failure which the group has never taken responsible for...

[blegton]

Hi all, I recently received the bad news from Lookers Skoda Stockport that my timing chain, pistons and con rods need replacing. This is after a 300km oil consumption test, due to heavy usage of oil.  

 

It's a 10-plate Skoda Yeti 1.8 TSi, with 69,000 miles. Bought 2.5 years ago from a Suzuki dealership who gave it a full service + 1 year warranty. It previously had FSH from another Skoda dealership.  The past 2 services have been at Lookers Skoda (at the last one we agreed to do the oil consumption test).

 

Lookers have quoted me £4,000 for the work.  I also have leaking coolant and they have said they can replace the pump at same time for £200 extra. I know from other threads it's best to do both at same time.

 

On advice from Lookers I spoke with Skoda Customer Support about getting them to cover some of the cost, on basis this is a known issue, but they say they have no information about this in their systems (??). They’re now liaising with Lookers to see if they can do anything on price (but am not hopeful).

 

I'm wondering if anyone can advise:

• Is it best to go to an independent garage for the work (getting parts from TPS?) and are any garages / mechanics recommended for this in the Manchester area. 
• Are there any things I should say to Skoda / Lookers that might help them reduce cost (e.g. I'm surprised Skoday say this is not a known issue) - please don't all laugh at once!!
• Should I definitely stop driving the car now (it’s still at Lookers) for fear of blowing the engine (or something)? I drive my family around in it. 
• Is there any other work they should look to do at the same time (when engine is out, etc.)? Does it have any part ex value without the work (my 'faith' in Skoda is quite dented, reading all the previous posts)?

I haven't yet seen the detailed quote from Lookers (I'm waiting for Skoda to talk with Lookers before I collect quote/car).

 

I don't think the following is related (??) but also for past 18 months (since first service at Lookers Skoda in fact) I also have slight 'engine judder' at various speeds. Though it feels similar it's nothing to do with wheel alignment (has been checked numerous times, plus happens at many different speeds/conditions). I went out with mechanic from dealership who noticed it but has not yet found out what it is. Obviously I'd prefer to know what it is before they start to work on the engine.. 

 

Thanks a lot.

[Ootohere]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Best get in writing from Skoda Custom Support they know nothing about it. 

They must have a new start straight from outer space.

 

Best see the cost of a new Base Engine and having that fitted.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/452890-yeti-18tsi-brand-new-engine-a-success-story

 

Edited 5 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[TheClient]

33 minutes ago, blegton said:

On advice from Lookers I spoke with Skoda Customer Support about getting them to cover some of the cost, on basis this is a known issue, but they say they have no information about this in their systems (??). They’re now liaising with Lookers to see if they can do anything on price (but am not hopeful).

 

I'm wondering if anyone can advise:

• Is it best to go to an independent garage for the work (getting parts from TPS?) and are any garages / mechanics recommended for this in the Manchester area. 
• Are there any things I should say to Skoda / Lookers that might help them reduce cost (e.g. I'm surprised Skoday say this is not a known issue) - please don't all laugh at once!!
• Should I definitely stop driving the car now (it’s still at Lookers) for fear of blowing the engine (or something)? I drive my family around in it. 
• Is there any other work they should look to do at the same time (when engine is out, etc.)? Does it have any part ex value without the work (my 'faith' in Skoda is quite dented, reading all the previous posts)?

I haven't yet seen the detailed quote from Lookers (I'm waiting for Skoda to talk with Lookers before I collect quote/car).

 

I don't think the following is related (??) but also for past 18 months (since first service at Lookers Skoda in fact) I also have slight 'engine judder' at various speeds. Though it feels similar it's nothing to do with wheel alignment (has been checked numerous times, plus happens at many different speeds/conditions). I went out with mechanic from dealership who noticed it but has not yet found out what it is. Obviously I'd prefer to know what it is before they start to work on the engine.. 

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Ok, Skoda, VW, Audi - take a pick, they all don't know about the engine scraper ring problem or the tensioner issues on the EA888 engines!  All the complaints are deleted from their systems after 24 hours.......That is what must happen, for them to repeat that xxxxsh1t.

 

As you bought the car used, you contractual rights are against the suzuki dealership. A vehicle sold not fit for purpose. And it is now quite some time but depending on cost and descriptions, you could reasonable expect more than 2.5 years, xxxx miles before a complete rebuild. 

 

Of course VAG is the real problem but to get to them would cost £££££ and also it would be a third party liability type case as you did not purchase new.

 

At £4,000 I don't know that a good engine rebuilder will do much cheaper, maybe you could get the cost down to £3,500.  Search posts in this thread, there is an engine rebuilder in the midlands that got a good wrap, But that is probably still a for hike for you.

 

There is no problems using genuine parts from TPS but to resolve the problem the updated piston rings, piston and conrods are required and it needs someone who knows what they are doing. 

 

The decision on driving is up to you, driven sedately you could hope it will not fail in the short term, but I certainly can not give any guarantees.  I have never seen the vehicle and realistically,   No-one could give any guarantee with this fault..   The cost for a whole replacement engine could not be that much more than what you have quoted. So it is with you.

 

You could exchange it and pass the problem to someone else. Many others have. It is not the approach I would take but lots of others have.

 

I do not rate your chances from anything other than a sorry, we know nothing from Skoda, on a near 9 yo car.

[blegton]

12 hours ago, Skoffski said:

Welcome to the forum.

 

Best get in writing from Skoda Custom Support they know nothing about it. 

They must have a new start straight from outer space.

  

Best see the cost of a new Base Engine and having that fitted.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/452890-yeti-18tsi-brand-new-engine-a-success-story

 

Thanks @Skoffski - good to be part of the forum.

 

Yes the person who was handling my case seemed new and has now referred things to his manager who should be more aware of this known issue. I will ask about getting it in writing.

 

The thread you link to is interesting - hadn't spotted it, though I have done a lot of searches in the forum. Gives me the tiniest degree of hope..  (While taking into account the reply above from @TheClient ).

[blegton]

12 hours ago, TheClient said:

 

Ok, Skoda, VW, Audi - take a pick, they all don't know about the engine scraper ring problem or the tensioner issues on the EA888 engines!  All the complaints are deleted from their systems after 24 hours.......That is what must happen, for them to repeat that xxxxsh1t.

  

As you bought the car used, you contractual rights are against the suzuki dealership. A vehicle sold not fit for purpose. And it is now quite some time but depending on cost and descriptions, you could reasonable expect more than 2.5 years, xxxx miles before a complete rebuild. 

  

Of course VAG is the real problem but to get to them would cost £££££ and also it would be a third party liability type case as you did not purchase new.

  

At £4,000 I don't know that a good engine rebuilder will do much cheaper, maybe you could get the cost down to £3,500.  Search posts in this thread, there is an engine rebuilder in the midlands that got a good wrap, But that is probably still a for hike for you.

 

There is no problems using genuine parts from TPS but to resolve the problem the updated piston rings, piston and conrods are required and it needs someone who knows what they are doing. 

  

The decision on driving is up to you, driven sedately you could hope it will not fail in the short term, but I certainly can not give any guarantees.  I have never seen the vehicle and realistically,   No-one could give any guarantee with this fault..   The cost for a whole replacement engine could not be that much more than what you have quoted. So it is with you.

 

You could exchange it and pass the problem to someone else. Many others have. It is not the approach I would take but lots of others have.

  

I do not rate your chances from anything other than a sorry, we know nothing from Skoda, on a near 9 yo car.

 

Thanks for all this @TheClient.

 

I will see what happens with Skoda / Lookers and then go chasing Suzuki dealership if needed (mileage since purchase is around 15K). Will also follow advice gained from https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/452890-yeti-18tsi-brand-new-engine-a-success-story/ 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean I wanted to pass on the problem to a future buyer - I wouldn't want to do that - but just assumed it would have some trade-in value with Lookers (but maybe not) - I wouldn't be at all comfortable if they were to just sell the car 'as-is' to someone else..

 

Thanks for the advice re-driving / not driving it. Will look into full engine replacement (or scrapping the car and getting something cheaper second hand -  e.g. our other car is a 02 plate Fabia 16v that's ticking along okay).

 

[Ootohere]

I do not hold out any hope for you with the Suzuki Dealership.  They are not responsible legally or morally. IMO.

They bought or received a vehicle which they sold and which was of merchantable quality.

The known issue was known to VW Group, VW, Skoda, Audi & SEAT.  Not to the wider Motor Trade because VW Group were in denial.

Not outwith Europe obviously, but in the home market they just ignored their Fundamental Design, Manufacturing, Material / Component or workmanship failings.

[TheClient]

@Skoffski I feel we have had this debate before. And of course, I agree the problem and moral responsibility is with VAG. However, the most direct consumer redress is against the selling trader. Much harder after the 6 months is up though, you would need to get an expert in these engines saying there is a fundemental design and quality issue...

 

Anyway I'll end it there, the poster can purse whichever or multiple angles but I would hold out less hope with Skoda than the trader route.  These engines were failing immediately after the warranty period and sometimes within and VAG still resist and hold the line that there is no known issues!

 

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/buying-and-selling-guides/buying-a-used-car/

 

• From six months and up to six years: Should you experience a fault with the vehicle after six months and you can prove that the fault was present at the time of delivery, you will be entitled to a repair or replacement. Should the repair or replacement not address the problem you are complaining of, you will be entitled to a choice of rejecting the vehicle and claim a refund (which can be reduced as a result of your fair use) or keep the vehicle and receive a fair price reduction. However, after the six-month period, the burden of proof is reversed and a consumer will have to show that the goods were defective at the time of delivery.
• After six years: You are not entitled to any legal remedy under the laws of England and Wales (5 years in Scotland)

If you pay for all or part of the vehicle via credit card, you may be able to seek redress from your credit card provider. They can be jointly responsible for problems with your vehicle under The Consumer Credit Act 1974. If your vehicle is subject to a finance or lease agreement, your options may vary considerably.

 

[Ootohere]

Yes we have had the discussion before. Several times.

I have helped quite a few have the matter resolved with 1.4 TSI Twinchargers. 

Engineers reports available showing that there were Fundamental Design, Manufacturing, Material / Component or Workmanship.

& because of that the VW Group updated the engines and changed the hardware and engine management software.

 

Issue is.

2 1/2 years ago a 5 1/2 year old car was bought.

The fault was known to VW group and those that knew.  So there is the issue.  Not all those built in 2010 have failed.

 

You have to fight the good fight, and Expert Engineers report or reports are needed.

[blegton]

Thanks both for all your feedback. I'll update you on what happens.  Skoffski is there a Skoda/VW Group report out there on the web that documents this known issue? Thanks again.

9 hours ago, Skoffski said:

 Engineers reports available showing that there were Fundamental Design, Manufacturing, Material / Component or Workmanship.

 

[Ootohere]

Sadly no.

VW Group do not acknowledge there are faults of their making.

The Engineers Reports are ones individuals have had to commission to then take actions against a seller, or to start legal actions against the Importer.

Not surprisingly 'Dealers or is that VW Group, VW, Skoda, SEAT or Audi' can reach agreements with individuals or Warranty Companies.

Also have confidentiality agreements when they Bought Back vehicles, or allowed Rejection, providing new engines, covering the cost of labour etc.

Every man and women for theirselves in the EU.   VW are the ones in charge, but they certainly do not want to defend their actions i a court and their be a judgement.

Edited 7 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[Ootohere]

Might be of interest or help.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/444790-do-you-own-an-oil-burner

 

[blegton]

3 hours ago, Skoffski said:

Might be of interest or help.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/444790-do-you-own-an-oil-burner

 

 

Thanks - have linked to my original post. 

Update my side: still waiting on Skoda to talk with dealership and come to a conclusion.

[bspman]

115kish tension failure signs on mine (rattle) - engine hasn't gone bang yet, but it's at a local indy as we speak.

[assettt]

1 hour ago, bspman said:

115kish tension failure signs on mine (rattle) - engine hasn't gone bang yet, but it's at a local indy as we speak.

Hope they have caught it before is messed up the engine and may only need replacing with the new modified tensioner

[blegton]

On 06/03/2019 at 11:07, blegton said:

 

Thanks for all this @TheClient.

 

I will see what happens with Skoda / Lookers and then go chasing Suzuki dealership if needed (mileage since purchase is around 15K). Will also follow advice gained from https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/452890-yeti-18tsi-brand-new-engine-a-success-story/ 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean I wanted to pass on the problem to a future buyer - I wouldn't want to do that - but just assumed it would have some trade-in value with Lookers (but maybe not) - I wouldn't be at all comfortable if they were to just sell the car 'as-is' to someone else..

 

Thanks for the advice re-driving / not driving it. Will look into full engine replacement (or scrapping the car and getting something cheaper second hand -  e.g. our other car is a 02 plate Fabia 16v that's ticking along okay).

 

 

 

Update: Skoda and Lookers finally got back to me and will not contribute anything to the repair, leaving me facing the full £4,000 repair for  timing chain, pistons and con rods.  Will see if complete engine replace is around the same mark. Maybe look at independent garages with good reputation etc. Car still at Lookers in meantime, gathering dust / rust.

 

 

[bspman]

Well, Its been at the indy for a while now. On the weekend he called me in to show me the turbo sat on his workbench. The chain tension was checked with a computer so he started fault finding. Replaced an injector seal, cleaned the intake and eventually got to the turbo. The actuator moves but whatever it's connected to is rattling. Boost wasn't being properly regulated.

 

New turbo getting put in a little over a grand later.

 

Really happy with the work he's done and considering not returning to the vw specialist again.

Edited 27 March, 2019 by bspman

[Soot1e]

Excellent thread here.  Shame all prospective VAG 2.0 & 1.8 tsi buyers don’t read this forum before buying.  I was well aware of the timing chain problem when I bought my Audi A3 with CCZA engine.  Drove for 2 years with the fear of the tensioner/chain failure possibility but finally had the whole chain kit fitted a couple of weeks ago.  

For anyone contemplating having this done, before disaster strikes,  it should cost you £800 from a good VAG Indy, had mine done at AMD in West Thurrock and took a day to fit.

I can now relax with piece of mind every time I turn the ignition key.

[vwfan111]

Is there a reason why the oil consumption issue on 1.8 TSI engines is sometimes solved by dealers by changing just the pistons+rings, and other times by changing the conrods as well ?

Is it because the latest and best stock piston+ring kit is the 41197600, which requires 23" Wrist Pins and new conrods as well, although the original conrods are not damaged ?

Also is the (newer but not newest) 40251600 kit with horizontal slots considered good enough ? I belive that is compatible with the stock conrods.

Edited 3 April, 2019 by vwfan111

[Nuclear_Jules]

Afaik the newest rings are a waffle design which solves the problem the oil drainage holes in the others still block giving you the same problem.

the new rings are in the newest pistons which have a different size pin o new rods too.

had mine done in September not needed any oil since 

[vwfan111]

Thats pretty much what I knew too, the newest rings have that design and they are best to solve this problem. However that other kit is supposed to be decent too (the same design as the previous gen engine with horizontal slots) and does not require new rods.