1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[vwfan111]

Does anyone have forged pistons + rings installed in a 1.8 TSI (CDAA) engine ? Any opinions ? Recommendations ?

 

So far I have found several: from ZRP (made from 4032 alloy, which is supposedly best suited in road cars with medium power increase), from JE Pistons (made from 2618 alloy, supposedly best suited for race cars and/or with high power increase) and from Mahle (which I'm not sure what are made of, or if they are compatible with the gen2 engine, but are the most expensive).

 

Any ideas ?

[blegton]

Can anyone please advise on where I can reliably source a reconditioned engine for a Yeti 1.8 TSI, code CDAA, preferably in / near the Manchester area?

 

This is after I got a local indie garage specialising in german cars to look at my issue, who are quoting a little more than  Lookers Skoda for doing the usual pistons / con rods replacement (I've posted on this previously in this thread - see link at bottom of this post). The garage is saying that of course once they strip the engine, the engineers may find additional damage e.g. cracked block etc necessitating higher repair cost, etc.

 

So I think a replacement engine is a safer bet?

 

i'm not yet sure where I would get the engine installed - probably the german specialists as they seem to know what they're talking about (disclaimer: sorry I'm not a car expert).

 

Many thanks.

 

FYI my previous update on my issue is here: 

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

@blegton

A 'Base' engine can be sourced from Skoda / VW from a VW Refurbishing Plant.

Comes with a 2 year warranty. 

?

Can your Indie garage specialising in German cars not source one of those? 

 Not cheap but then you know what you are getting and it should not be like for like, it should have the upgrades.

[vwfan111]

Wouldn't a kit of pistons compatible with the stock conrods be a good option in this case ? Either cast (cheaper) or forged (stronger). It may be (considerably) cheaper than replacing the rods, if there are no other damaged parts (valves, block etc.).

[blegton]

thanks @Skoffski - not sure why the german car specialists near me can't source a reliable refurb engine with warranty themselves...  I've asked the question of Lookers Skoda, and waiting on a reply. If not too much more than the quote for the pistons/conrods/chain then this may be my preference.  I don't suppose you'd know how I could contact the VW Refurb Plant myself?

 

@vwfan111 thanks also but tbh I'm not knowledgeable enough to fully understand your suggestion. I'm going with what two other specialists have been saying (Skoda dealership and independent german car specialists).

Edited 5 April, 2019 by blegton
additional question

[peugeot_205_gti]

Hi All,

 

I am considering buying a 2012 Mk2 Octavia VRS (Petrol) - does this particular engine/model suffer from the 'engine failure' ?

 

Is the Diesel a safer bet?

 

Thanks all

[SimpsonMrG]

3 hours ago, peugeot_205_gti said:

Hi All,

 

I am considering buying a 2012 Mk2 Octavia VRS (Petrol) - does this particular engine/model suffer from the 'engine failure' ?

 

Is the Diesel a safer bet?

 

Thanks all

Yeah, the Facelifted Mk2 petrol, Engine code CCZA is the engine with the tensioner issue, depending on when a 12 plate was manufactured, it MAY have the lastest tensioner in it, but you'd have to find out.

[Alexius727]

• Sorry for sounding stupid but if the 1.8tsi engine is prone to drinking oil and blowing up then wouldnt it be better to just greplace it with oversizzed pistons and rebore the engine to 2.0tfsi as i have heard the architecture of both the engines are the same.
• This would be a a rather positive approach other than the grim fate of the brilliant 1.8tsi engine. DONT U GUYS THINK.

[Nuclear_Jules]

Is t the bore the same on these? Thought the 2 litre just has a longer stroke

Edited 9 April, 2019 by Nuclear_Jules
Typo

[Alexius727]

5 minutes ago, Nuclear_Jules said:

Is t the bore the dame on these? Thought the 2 litre just has a longer stroke

no idea bro but would like to know more about it from someone more experienced here.

[Nuclear_Jules]

There were two problems with the engine, they used oil because of poor piston ring design but also had problems with the cam chain tensioner.

[Alexius727]

2 minutes ago, Nuclear_Jules said:

There were two problems with the engine, they used oil because of poor piston ring design but also had problems with the cam chain tensioner.

yeah both need to be taken care off but still if one is spending on the engine rebuild anyways it wont hurt to pay a bit extra and get a better engine altogether.

[ninhan]

Hi

 

I have just put down a deposit on a Octavia vrs 2012 2.0 tfsi. 

Would my car have the newer tensioner fitted from factory.

Registered 12/09/2012

engine code CCZA 

 

[davetheosteopath]

It's the manufacturing date that's important (usually on the timing chain case), not the registration date. Search back through this thread for the details. 

 

Remember this engine design is just NOT robust though.  If the quick death tensioner doesn't get you (and you have a reasonable chance of escaping this).  You still have the slow death of the piston oil scrapper ring design and quite possibly other or additional issues associated with the efficacy of the engine lubrication system and service interval regime that can lead to compromised oil supply to the camshafts and valve gear. 

 

How many of these engines, across the whole vag group production even, will get to high mileages without significant remedial work? 

 

I can't believe this design is anything but high risk and as shown via this thread, the manufacturer will have no interest in offering assistance. 

 

It would be prudent to at least make sure you get independent confirmation of the tensioner status and an oil consumption test before proceeding. 

 

Or get £2-3k off the price towards a new lump. 

[Babs]

You also have to balance this with the fact that most people have no issues and you only see people screaming and shouting about problems on forums etc.

 

No one ever posts they've had a good experience

 

 

No garage will entertain an oil consumption test, but a check of the tensioner revision is about 10 minutes work.

[Ootohere]

Many just cry, & never post on forums, some just punt the cars and they just keep doing the rounds,

rejected cars back on the market,

and there are plenty that say they have no issues and that have good experiences.

 

The issue is not overblown on the internet, the failing is big among hundreds of thousands of vehicles from, VW, AUDI, Skoda & SEAT.

If VW Group were actually honest and open Globally then people might know the percentage of failures.

 

Any Chinese whispers are due to VW Group, and remember, in China & the USA they do not get away with pretending only a small failure affecting the few.

 

VW went no more Das Auto just Honesty, and then just ignored that.

Edited 10 April, 2019 by Skoffski

[Blueglue]

2 hours ago, ninhan said:

Hi

 

I have just put down a deposit on a Octavia vrs 2012 2.0 tfsi. 

Would my car have the newer tensioner fitted from factory.

Registered 12/09/2012

engine code CCZA 

 

It may be worth looking at the manufacture date on the sticker in the boot. You should be ok if the car was built from say June 2012.

 

 

[ninhan]

1 hour ago, Babs said:

You also have to balance this with the fact that most people have no issues and you only see people screaming and shouting about problems on forums etc.

 

No one ever posts they've had a good experience

 

 

No garage will entertain an oil consumption test, but a check of the tensioner revision is about 10 minutes work.

Sounds like a silly question but how would you check it. Take top cover off and you can see it would you need to take the mount off? 

[Babs]

1 minute ago, ninhan said:

Sounds like a silly question but how would you check it. Take top cover off and you can see it would you need to take the mount off? 

 

Driver's front wheel off, arch liner off, boost hose off, round black grommet in side of block, get a mirror or camera to check the tensioner in there.

[ninhan]

1 minute ago, Babs said:

 

Driver's front wheel off, arch liner off, boost hose off, round black grommet in side of block, get a mirror or camera to check the tensioner in there.

Perfect thankyou

[davetheosteopath]

You say, "no garage would entertain..."

 

Ok. So if they're confident of their product get that agreed as part of the deal.

 

Does anyone who has read this thread from start to finish and or any of the stuff elsewhere really believe the oil scrapper ring etc is a case of" if" and not  "when"?

So why has it been revised and more than once? Ditto the tensioner 4 revisions? An academic exercise, or their hand being forced. Inlet manifold? Throttle body? Yes. NO vehicle is perfect, but one needs to understand the likely issue and way up the risks. 

 

Make sure you pay a deposit with a credit card so you're covered under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1975 in case the dealer tries to duck out of his obligations under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 if the product is faulty (and bearing in mind if you specifically ask about the oil consumption he's supposed to give you an honest expert answer.  Don't be fobbed off with a vague,"well mate, they all......" ).  Have the oil level bench marked/agreed. Then they can check it again to do the test, or if they're not up for that and it is an issue, make sure you reject the vehicle formally within 30 days for a full refund. 

An honest trader should stand by their product, not offload a problem on the buyer. 

 

If it's a private sale (where you don't have any consumer rights), I personally would walk away or get a si,zeble discount. 

[xman]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe from what I've read that most EA888 oil burners are the Gen 2 series, the ones fitted with 'not fit for purpose' oil control rings.

 

I personally would not risk buying one of these 2nd hand, there are enough threads where people have bought them in an advanced state of oil burning, evidently the previous owner getting shut of their problem motor and then having a battle to avoid massive repair bill or write off. Skoda dealers are no better than other traders either for passing these vehicles on. Buying privately would be pure folly.

 

Anyone buying should think carefully, make it clear to the seller, at point of sale, that they will be liable for repairs if it turns out to be an excessive oil burner within the Customer Rights Act timeframe (6 months) and then immediately monitor its oil usage as a swift return is more likely to get a resolution with the seller.

 

If, perchance, you do get a good one, the only advice I would offer is to change the oil at least every 5000 miles, and avoid really short journeys. No particular need to change the oil filter at the same interval, they can go 10,000 or even 15,000 miles with the refreshed clean oil.  Need to keep that oil clean and free from suspended carbon and lacquer forming byproducts that can bake on and block the rings. (Note the filter can not filter these components out of the oil)

 

Gen 3 engines do seem to have resolved most of the previous gen1 (chains?) and gen 2 (oil burning) problems, unless someone can enlighten me?

[bspman]

Got my car back today. Was slow to turn over. Drove it to the pump and filled up with momentum. Refused to restart. 

 

Wondering if it was mis diagnosed now as a few people have had similar experiences.

Edited 13 April, 2019 by bspman

[TheClient]

On 10/04/2019 at 13:48, xman said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe from what I've read that most EA888 oil burners are the Gen 2 series, the ones fitted with 'not fit for purpose' oil control rings.

...removed rest of quote

 

Your full post is pretty much how I understand the situation and I hold similar views. I did buy a private sale vRS which I had researched the issue in advance and I knew the risks to some extent. Enough that I had the tensioner and chain replaced the day after I purchased.  Whilst I had heard of it,  I didn't know or understand the extent of the oil consumption weakness due to the oil scraper ring design. Luckily, my 2011 uses virtually no oil. Maybe 0.5L in 8000 miles.  I always change on fixed service / 12 months / 8k Miles max.

 

The one thing I do find to be inconsistent is that by far the majority of tensioner failure faults posted on here are the gen 2 CCZA vRS where as the severe oil consumption issues that are most reported on these forums are the 1.8TSi gen 2 variants.  Now I have always put that down to the fact that there are a lot more 1.8Tsi's in circulation, meaning more reported issues. However, the same should be true of the tensioner! 

 

[bspman]

Latest news back from the indie --- he thinks the chain has slipped. Whelp.. maybe I should've just dropped 9k on a mk3 instead . it's getting close to that figure now.