1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[Monty28]

I own a Octavia Lauren Clement 1.8 TSI on an 11 plate and have had a nightmare of issues with the engine which has kept the car off the road for almost a year. I short these were the issues

1. The engine burnt so much oil I only managed 396 miles during a 'burn test' before the oil light came on.

2. The skoda dealership in Poole didn't want to discuss the issues of failure with these engines or didn't want to offer any financial support due to the common fault (across the VW group). They suggested I go to Skoda UK. 

3. I spoke with Skoda UK who didn't want to know saying that it was a dealership issue. 

4. Back at the dealership all they suggested was a rebuild of my engine at a huge cost. 

5. Decided on a remanufactured engine went to a company called Vege...……..don't use this company. I have had nothing but problems with the engine. There were a lot of issues with the engine so much so that the engine went to another remanufacture to rebuild it again.... the block was changed along with numerous seals.

 

In short I don't think I would buy another Skoda as the support from the dealership and Skoda UK was non-existent despite the oil burning issue being a known problem across the VW group.

 

[Okedokey]

On 17/02/2020 at 18:40, Blue-Eyes said:

You can add my car as well.

Skoda Octavia 1.8TSI 160HP CDAA. 158,000 KM.

Very Very Very high oil consumtion. Probably the engine will go down soon.

 

 

Is it burning or ending up in the intercooler?  Smoke?  Plugs wet, oily?
PCV working?
 

[Ididit99]

On 18/03/2020 at 14:43, Okedokey said:

 

Is it burning or ending up in the intercooler?  Smoke?  Plugs wet, oily?
PCV working?
 

I am having this exact issue with my 1.8TSI CDAA too, Changed PCV, Coil packs and spark plugs, small amount of oil on plugs nothing too bad for suspected 50k plugs.

Rough idle occasionally still consuming a lot of oil, If I remove the oil cap or dipstick the engine cuts out. removed and checked the PCV pipes, and checked the intake and found a bit of oil on the inside. 

I'm very stuck at this point and not sure what else to try.

[TheClient]

There is always some oil lining the intake tract from the fine oil separator does not pick up everything.  If the PCV / fine oil separator is faulty or clogged or valves or diaphragm damaged, it will make it worse. I replaced mine even though I didn't have a idle or driveability fault, but the oil leaking around the turbo air intake connection and DV and dripping onto the drive shaft was driving me nuts trying to resolve.  The PCV sorted it.

 

These were my plugs, 22 March 2017 post, at mid 30k miles.  My car uses very little oil. About 0.5 litres in 7000 miles. i'm now at 65k so will replace again soon. Be interesting to see how they look. I don't think my oil usage has really changed.

 

Unfortunately, after you rule out say turbo seals, valve stem seals, pcv, or an oil leak, there is only one place to go with the oil usage.  A borescope in the Intake manifold ports or in the spark plug apertures will reveal more if you really want to investigate.

 

 

 

 

[Monty28]

Hi okedokey

It sounds very much the same symptoms as mine. I would suggest a 'burn test' which has to be completed by a skoda dealership. In the test they drain the engine of all oil. Refill with new oil to max , note the mileage and then tell you to drive the engine until the oil warning light comes on. The mileage is then checked. I fear an engine rebuild may be on the cards. 

[Monty28]

Hi all

So the saga continues with and intermittent fault in that the car now fails to start on the initial first, second and third turn over of the engine. The Characteristic whine of the fuel pump(s) were not linear so the lower pressure pump has been replaced...…..the fault is still intermittent …..SOB!

[Sno_monsta]

I'm in this boat Skoda Yeti 2010 CDAA 118KW 160HP 1.8TSI.

 

 

 

 

[Loshmi]

Hi all,

 

I am planning to buy Skoda Superb MK3 and my original idea was to buy 1.8 TSI paired with manual transmission.

Does this version of engine suffer from the issues described in this thread? 

 

Thanks,

[bigjohn]

On 22/06/2020 at 13:57, Loshmi said:

Hi all,

 

I am planning to buy Skoda Superb MK3 and my original idea was to buy 1.8 TSI paired with manual transmission.

Does this version of engine suffer from the issues described in this thread? 

 

Thanks,

 

I thought the Superb mk3 wasn't produced with a 1.8tsi. Originally the petrol versions were 1.4tsi (later version is 1.5tsi ) and 2.0tsi

[Loshmi]

9 hours ago, bigjohn said:

 

I thought the Superb mk3 wasn't produced with a 1.8tsi. Originally the petrol versions were 1.4tsi (later version is 1.5tsi ) and 2.0tsi

As far as I know, there were three petrol engines:

1.4 TSI, 150 PS

1.8 TSI, 179 PS

2.0 TSI, 280 PS

 

 

Source: wikipedia

[bigjohn]

It might be a UK thing - I can't remember seeing a 1.8 version of the Series III here.  I was looking closely when it came out and the range jumped from 1.4tsi to 2.0 with 220 or 280ps  at the time.

 

Has there been a 1.8 since?

[Ootohere]

Simple really, the UK may not get the engines that other World Regions / Countries get, and in this case 1.8TSI's in MK3 Superbs, or Mk3 Octavias.

[Rileysport]

Over the last few weeks mine had been getting more "rattly" on cold start and had started to rattle slightly on a warm start too. Got it booked in and sorted out, it had the chains, tensioners guides, VVT bridge and many many more associated bolts and gaskets etc. The engine is now rattle free (apart from normal Tsi type noises) and feels lots smoother than before. Car is a 2010 VRS TSi on 85k miles, was still on the original timing gear. I've also had higher oil consumption than i'd deem acceptable but an oil flush and moving to 5w40 oil appears to have stopped/slowed this down dramatically!

 

Its not been a cheap month, that's for sure!

[Sno_monsta]

I had to have the head rebuilt, 16 new valves, camchain, tensioner etc. Not a cheap month by any stretch!

[Sno_monsta]

On 24/07/2020 at 20:03, Sno_monsta said:

I had to have the head rebuilt, 16 new valves, camchain, tensioner etc. Not a cheap month by any stretch!

 

Within 800 miles of my newly built head. EPC light, engine fault light, display panel mesage: Engine fault! Workshop!

 

Back I go to the local independent garage.

They said they were very busy, but within a day told me loss of compression on cylinder 4!

And that the spark plugs were not the  correct ones, cyl 4 spark plug had burnt it's electrode.

As they weren't the ones who fitted the plugs, they're claiming not their problem!

 

The plugs fitted were Bosch FR7ldc+ which look like they're for an older Audi 1.8T engine.

 

If they rebuilt the head, why would they put the old spark plugs back?

 

[TheClient]

It's hard to be categorical. I don't have the full back story either.

 

 Was it tensioner failure that caused the head to be rebuilt? How long had you had the car? When was it last serviced and by whom? Can you tell when plugs were changed from service records? 

 

You should compare the technical details of that plug to the official Bosch replacement but I am sceptical that a different plug is the root cause.

 

And yes, they had to remove the plugs to recon the head. Why refit incorrect parts? What was their condition upon refitting?  Why weren't they replaced if damaged?. Why would they suddenly cause damage after a rebuilt head and not before? 

 

So what is the cause of cyl 4 compression now? Burnt valves or cylinder/ ring problem? 

 

 

[mstrbkr]

Feel for you, sno_monsta. That is really poor form by the garage to refit a part which they go on to blame for the failure. I hope you get it sorted out without anymore expense on your part.

 

When it’s sorted out I suggest moving the car on. I did. Bought a Honda for an easier life... It has been bliss. These rubbish engines are always going to require constant care to keep them going. I will never buy another VW group vehicle. Which is a shame as I loved the yeti apart from the chocolate engine.

[Rileysport]

That's poor sno_monsta. I'm now 2k miles after the chains, oil flush, switch to miller's cfs 5w40 and a stage one map. Engine is perfect (touch wood) and oil consumption appears to be at zero or close to. I'm currently 950 miles into a tour of Scotland and the car has really done very well. Its just a shame that they have the issues with the chains from the factory! 

[Sno_monsta]

17 hours ago, TheClient said:

It's hard to be categorical. I don't have the full back story either.

 

 Was it tensioner failure that caused the head to be rebuilt? How long had you had the car? When was it last serviced and by whom? Can you tell when plugs were changed from service records? 

 

You should compare the technical details of that plug to the official Bosch replacement but I am sceptical that a different plug is the root cause.

 

And yes, they had to remove the plugs to recon the head. Why refit incorrect parts? What was their condition upon refitting?  Why weren't they replaced if damaged?. Why would they suddenly cause damage after a rebuilt head and not before? 

 

So what is the cause of cyl 4 compression now? Burnt valves or cylinder/ ring problem? 

 

 

The initial failure according to the owner of the garage was carbon build up on the valve, which he said was common for these engines.

I have the valve somewhere it looks like it's been spark eroded.

I suspected injector failure and the garage who repaired the head even said injector fault on their initial assessment. They might have forgotten in the 4 weeks that it took for them to complete the repairs...

 

I asked for a new tensioner and chain as the head would be off.

 

Owned by me for 3 years, last service May 2019, they have the plug type listed on the invoice, Bosch FR7ldc+ 

 

I don't know the reason for cyl 4's loss of compression, they wanted £380 to take the head off and look.

I said I'm not spending anymore money, they said you best come and collect it then.

 

Yeti is back home with me, triple cripple.

 

[TheClient]

I'll have a look at the spark plug spec but unless the heat range was majorly hotter or the wrong projection caused it to come into contact with the piston, I can't see that being a valid reason.

 

I take it the yeti uses oil? 

9 hours ago, Sno_monsta said:

The initial failure according to the owner of the garage was carbon build up on the valve, which he said was common for these engines.

I have the valve somewhere it looks like it's been spark eroded.

I suspected injector failure and the garage who repaired the head even said injector fault on their initial assessment. They might have forgotten in the 4 weeks that it took for them to complete the repairs...

 

I asked for a new tensioner and chain as the head would be off.

 

Owned by me for 3 years, last service May 2019, they have the plug type listed on the invoice, Bosch FR7ldc+ 

 

I don't know the reason for cyl 4's loss of compression, they wanted £380 to take the head off and look.

I said I'm not spending anymore money, they said you best come and collect it then.

 

Yeti is back home with me, triple cripple.

 

 

[Sno_monsta]

The spark plugs fitted were Bosch FR7LDC+ with a heat range of 7, a correct fitment should have a heat rate of 5. Would that have made such a huge difference?

 

 

Oil consumption wasn't too bad ,around a litre for a thousand miles.

Edited 22 August, 2020 by Sno_monsta

[TheClient]

18 hours ago, Sno_monsta said:

The spark plugs fitted were Bosch FR7LDC+ with a heat range of 7, a correct fitment should have a heat rate of 5. Would that have made such a huge difference?

 

 

Oil consumption wasn't too bad ,around a litre for a thousand miles.

 

OK. Yes you are right.

 

So, those are not the mfr specified correct plug. They are two heat grades higher (bosch higher number higher heat).  They are also different design, (twin ground electrode) the gap is 0,9mm rather than 0,7mm for genuine OEM 06H 905 611.  The spark position is 4mm from my research may be 1mm different from OEM replacement part.  After market equivalents can vary in the catalogue slightly from OEM even from the same manufacturer so don't use their specs as absolute gospel but they should be serviceable as replacement.

 

So, questions that come to me:

 

i) Why use a non specified plug?

ii) Why 2 grades higher?

iii) Has it caused the damage? 

 

You may need to check with the  original service agent to fully answer i) and their rationale. IF it has caused piston / engine damage then they are on the line, it is itemised on their invoice after all and they decided to fit them!!

 

My theory starts with your service agent changing the heat grade on the plugs +2 because they could see significant carbon fouling.  It is a slippery slope to try and manage oil usage by going up heat ranges.  Eventually the engine will say enough is enough from the oil burning...

 

I have a further  theory, and it is borne out of many many posts with engine trouble on the EA888 gen 2 engines, especially 1.8TSis.

 

Theory 2. The oil consumption in your car is significant enough to cause problems after 8 years or more. OK, so 1l in 1000 miles doesn't sound ridiculous - but if it is not even, e.g one or 2 cylinders is using most of that oil, then it becomes more significant. Also, depending on the mileage, the effect of even 1 Litre every 3 or 4 fill ups is a lot of oil being burned over the life to date, over 60, 70 100k miles. 100 litres being burned?

 

The root cause is the design (poor) design of the scraper rings which clog and then fail. The problem gets worse and worse, more and more oil passes into the combustion chamber, carbon build up worsens on valves and top of piston, excess heat is generated from burning oil, cat and o2 sensors can become soiled.

 

So, my theory is your repairing garage has misdiagnosed the problems. There are TPIs for changed design pistions, rings and conrods.  They thought the damaged valves and carbon build up were normal DI by products, so recommended reconditioning the head. But the pistons and rings could have been well beyond service limits on one or more cylinders and this was actually a key cause for the damaged head.

 

Following the repairs, the oil usage has continued to such a degree one cylinder has burnt valves again or the piston / rings have entirely stopped sealing in the bore.

 

Question for you:

 

How much oil have you put in 800 miles or how much is shown on dipstick now?

How many miles has she done?

 

My recommendation would be to talk to the service dealer again and see what they say.  Then talk to the repairing garage again and based on what the service garage say put it to them that they have repaired the head on a dead engine that required full recon or engine exchange.

 

If they resist helping, then you may need to get an independent (different from the other 2 repairers) engineer report indicating the fault now and the root cause.

 

Looking at your head off photo,  to be honest all the valves and spark plugs look heavily carbon contaminated. I don't know how many miles the plugs had done then, but it would be a warning sign to me that the plugs are wrong, and 2 heat ranges higher and still carbon fouling. To me that says excessive oil usage.........

 

You can see the plugs and their twin electrode.  Certainly cylinder 1 and 4 at either end look very carboned up. To be honest all 4 are. Presumably the oil in the second cylinder is from leak checking.  The resolution doesn't show on here but maybe the original resolution will. Is the electrode damaged on the 3rd cylidner to the right of page?

 

Sorry it is a real pain. And the root cause is the terrible engineering and design of those rings by VAG. Such a fundamental thing that they should of been able to get right but seemingly did not...

 

 

Edited 23 August, 2020 by TheClient

[rayx]

On 22/08/2020 at 00:58, Sno_monsta said:

Owned by me for 3 years, last service May 2019, they have the plug type listed on the invoice, Bosch FR7ldc+ 

 

I don't know the reason for cyl 4's loss of compression, they wanted £380 to take the head off and look.

 

They are bad folks ... Wrong sparks used, Bosch FR7ldc+ (NGK BKR6EK) instead of Bosch F5KPP332SBN (NGK PFR7S8EG) ...

 

According this photo loss of compression happened on cylinder 2 and not 4 as they said ... Are you sure the engine did not drink oil over the alloved limit?

Melted exhaust valve on cyl2 says something different, oil thirsty beast ...

"Oil consumption wasn't too bad ,around a litre for a thousand miles" says everything,

a bit over or just on the limit (up to 0,5 litre for 624 miles/1000km) for long time does what it has done.

 

Edited 14 September, 2020 by rayx

[SuperbRaj09]

 I bought a Skoda Superb 1.8TSI MT on 2019 and its a 2012 January manufactured model with 72k kms on the odo .But when i searched for the service history in Skoda workshop the service advisor told me that there was a problem of misfire and coolant leak which caused a warped cylinder head in the engine at 54k kms on the odo, so they replaced the whole engine with a brand new  base engine on 2017 . I was very worried that is it a good buy or not but then i reasiled then i nearly  got a new engine which has ran only 18k kms . I think i am lucky to get this car with this replaced engine. What do u think?? 

Does this mean that as i got the engine replace with a new one on 2017 the engine will come with updated timing tensioners and updated piston rings and con rods beacuse i think they were updated by Skoda at that time???

Can anyone tell when did the Gen2 engine got its updated tensioners and piston rings?? I am pretty sure that Skoda updated these parts in Gen2 EA888 1.8TSI but when???

And ami I safe with this new engine?? 

Edited 16 September, 2020 by SuperbRaj09

[Sno_monsta]

3 hours ago, SuperbRaj09 said:

 I bought a Skoda Superb 1.8TSI MT on 2019 and its a 2012 January manufactured model with 72k kms on the odo .But when i searched for the service history in Skoda workshop the service advisor told me that there was a problem of misfire and coolant leak which caused a warped cylinder head in the engine at 54k kms on the odo, so they replaced the whole engine with a brand new  base engine on 2017 . I was very worried that is it a good buy or not but then i reasiled then i nearly  got a new engine which has ran only 18k kms . I think i am lucky to get this car with this replaced engine. What do u think?? 

Does this mean that as i got the engine replace with a new one on 2017 the engine will come with updated timing tensioners and updated piston rings and con rods beacuse i think they were updated by Skoda at that time???

Can anyone tell when did the Gen2 engine got its updated tensioners and piston rings?? I am pretty sure that Skoda updated these parts in Gen2 EA888 1.8TSI but when???

And ami I safe with this new engine?? 

 

https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=118

 

I would hope you have the 3rd Gen engine.