Breaking VW Emissions Scandal -Mk I

[Dr Zoidberg]

Is there anyone else selling diesels in California?

That's where the limits are so low and they had to cheat.

[Lady Elanore]

I spoke too soon perhaps

 

 

Zafira emission query

[Ryeman]

Is there anyone else selling diesels in California?

That's where the limits are so low and they had to cheat.

Volvo?

They just maybe the cleanest when it comes to emissions.......just wondering

[Tony R]

Wow some slack for someone who has been a wealth of useful information on many issues relating to the fabia vrs and others, vw have cheated and lied for nearly 20 years on the "clean" diesel technology they have(not) george has a wealth of knowleadge and much in demand, like our resident troller said " youve got a hide button" use it

Ref the last bit, well spotted!

[Damo]

Let's drop the personal insults please Ladies and gents. 

 

Nobody likes it when we have to lock a thread, despite what some people appear to think about us mods.

 

However we wont stand by and watch people break the rules by abusing other members

 

I'm asking nicely, stay on topic only

 

Thanks

 

Damo

[Ryeman]

We're in a 'holding pattern' waiting for actual official information, so some of us are just 'speculating' to fill in the time.

I got a response from Maurice Blackburn asking if I had a 'brochure' for my vehicle......looks like they want to quote what we were promised by showing their lawyers it in print.

[mjh69]

I recieved an email today from slater and gordon. Just an update message sayi stuff is being investigated further. Im edging towards not having the update done

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

[mjh69]

One thing i found interesting was that and i quote "no cars will fail mot's if update is not carried out"

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[Llanigraham]

One thing i found interesting was that and i quote "no cars will fail mot's if update is not carried out"

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

 

And why should they fail the MOT?

 

As has been said by me and several others; diesel MOT's do not check emissions currently but is only a smoke test.

[Ryeman]

And why should they fail the MOT?

 

As has been said by me and several others; diesel MOT's do not check emissions currently but is only a smoke test.

Not carbon monoxide as well?.

[Ryeman]

Forbes mag 22 Sep

Why Many VW Owners May Not Get Their Emissions Controls Fixed

From the California Air Resources Board (referring to the above possibility)

if too many ignore.......

"........we can then work with the Department of Motor Vehicles to make sure the vehicles cannot be registered without proof of repair"

Is Germany making it compulsory?

[Ootohere]

A members post from yesterday.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/375943-vw-skoda-emissions-oh-the-irony

[Breezy_Pete]

Not carbon monoxide as well?.

Nope, diesels don't really produce measurable amounts of CO. Only petrols have that measured.

[Ryeman]

Nope, diesels don't really produce measurable amounts of CO. Only petrols have that measured.

Being less than an equivalent petrol I guess that's fair enough.

We don't suffer 'annuals' thanks very much.

And

I wondering if we don't take our vehicle back for the 'fix' whether that will be treated as satisfaction all round and thus zero compo for those in terms of resale loss.

I hope ALL ramifications are nailed down at some stage .....preferably early.

[gadgetman]

And why should they fail the MOT?

As has been said by me and several others; diesel MOT's do not check emissions currently but is only a smoke test.

Currently.

[Ryeman]

Currently.

Exactly

VW has done an excellent job of raising the issue of NOx and the related health issue.....that's surely the last thing diesel lovers wanted.

[Ootohere]

A can of worms has been opened,

but the UK Government is not that stupid to then allow the worms to get free.

 

Diesel engine driving business users in cars and light commercials in the UK driving vehicles they own or lease having strict emission testing imposed in just the next couple of years on vehicles that they might just return earlier than already planned, bringing down the leasing companies and the financial institutions.

Then the Used Vehicle Trade if the market is flooded with vehicles that fail annual testing.

 

Much talking, deciding and kicking of cans of worms into the long grass needs to go on,

but the UK is already in trouble over not meeting targets on Pollution Reduction.

But then so are Germany, France, Italy etc.

 

The UK Government talk a good tale, but then just keep putting things off,

but the Conservative Party are now serving a second term, so we will see just what they do while 

Call Me Dave while i hug a Husky can do with George Osborne to change the Tax Benefits of al the 

polluting vehicles they encouraged onto the UK / EU roads.

http://dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/cars-and-carbon-dioxide.asp

 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32512152

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-34340301

[Breezy_Pete]

Some info on measuring techniques for NOx here.

[fuzzybunny]

Exactly what I've been thinking.

 

My thoughts are to maintain the same performance for e.g. a 110PS diesel, that they would have to upgrade it to what is required for the 140PS (bigger turbo etc.!)  and then reverse engineer it so that to get the required emissions the power would drop, probably not to 110PS but you get my drift.

 

Fuel economy might not be quite as good as the original 110PS but probably not far off and I'd rather keep the power and sacrifice a few MPG. But I guess that VWG are scared to death of mentioning worse MPG as that will be a sure fire way of being open to claims.

 

As I've said elsewhere VWG are banking on most customers being ignorant of what will really happen to their cars i.e. reduced power. To be honest if that happened to me I wouldn't be too bothered about a slight drop in ultimate BHP as I don't rev high enough (especially in a diesel) to achieve it but I would be bothered if there was less torque and drivability. That's where before and after dyno runs are required.

 

Of course my reversed engineered thoughts aren't going to happen, way too expensive as obviously VWG want to get away with this as painlessly as possible. And they are already being helped by our government by not insisting on a recall! Unbelievable, shows what they really think about the environment!

That's a good point VAGCF, speculation I know but it cant be that hard to install an efficient remap that maintains power and mpg but reduces emissions. The VW boffins brains must be hunkered in their bunkers working on it right now.

I think owners are concerned about a drop in engine performance and economy because of all the publicity around the issue. If the difference is only slight then how will we know without having a rolling road test. The downside is that some folks will have a test and if there is a drop in 'something' then word will get round that the VW fixes reduces performance or economy which will effect resale values and further tarnish the VAG reputation.

So if the VW fixers and remappers have any 'sense' they should be doing there best to make the remapped engines 'slightly better' in every way thereby making them more desirable and helping to restore the tarnished VW name. Dealers can then genuinely say that VAG cars have all been improved following the fix!

Or am I just being too over optimistic?

[Ryeman]

^^^^^ just don't mention NOx.

[Llanigraham]

Edit.

CBA

[voluptua]

It seems a shame that the recall is not mandatory.  If they found a spike on the front that might kill someone, it would be a safety recall.  But it's OK to spew poisons out of the back.

[looby]

From the government Defra report it seems the Euro 6 Diesel engines are virtually on par with petrol engines with NOX emissions, just to add a little perspective to the whole situation.... :sun: 

 

 

''The harmful effects of NOx have been brought sharply into focus by the emissions scandal engulfing Volkswagen, Audi, Škoda and Seat.

Based on current data, DEFRA estimates that the death rate in the UK is 4% higher due to NO2 exposure levels – equating to around 23,500 extra deaths per year.

This, in turn, has a massive financial cost to society – around £13 billion per year or 0.7% of gross domestic product (GDP), estimates DEFRA.

On average, around 80% of NOx emissions in areas  where the UK is exceeding limits are due to transport, although non-transport sources of NO2 are still considerable contributors.

The largest source, however, is caused by emissions from diesel cars and vans, where there has been significant growth in vehicle numbers over the past 10 years,  but little focus by regulators and, therefore, manufacturers in NOx emissions.

The latest Euro 6 engine standard, introduced to all new cars from September 2015 changes this.

It sets different standards for petrol and diesel cars. For diesel cars, Euro 6 dramatically drops the permitted level of NOx emitted down to a maximum of 80mg/km compared to the 180mg/km level that was required for cars to meet the previous Euro 5 emissions standards.

The limit for NOx from petrol cars remains at 60mg/km, the same as for the Euro 5 standard.''

[Ootohere]

Those test results for Euro 6 were and are the ones that are achieved under the same Testing Regime as the Euro 4 & Euro 5 vehicles were tested in the EU.

So tighter standards, which are being achieved & certified using Tests not Fit for Purpose.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-34340301

 

The UK has a MOT's now and legislation where you are not supposed to do DPF removal on Diesels and Catalytic Converter removal with petrols ,

but then it is a visual check, and if the tester sees nothing and the Petrols pass emissions and the Diesels pass a smoke test then those cars 

are out and about on the roads.

 

All those pre Euro 4 emission vehicles are out on the roads as well.

When has vehicles spewing out poisons really worried the UK Government that much?

[05surveyor]

A members post from yesterday.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/375943-vw-skoda-emissions-oh-the-irony

 

Below is the text of the link given by goneoffskion1 for those who may be interested.  As a 63 plate Superb 1.6TDI Greenline III driver I find it interesting enough to copy it in full. 

 

So remove the cheat software and do nothing else and the car will pass all the required tests, or am I over simplifying?   

 

 

"I just took my 62 plate Superb Greenline 1.6 litre for its first ever MOT. It is also one of the cars that will be affected by the EA189 engine recall, as I have had my letter from Skoda. 

 

The MOT tester didn't put it on the exhaust gas analyser to test the particulates emissions, so I asked him why. Apparently some (but not all) of the late model diesel Superb's and Passat's produce so small an amount of particulates coming out of the tail pipe that it isn't possible to get sufficient gas flow for a particulates reading on the testing stations Sun exhaust gas analyser. 

 

As a consequence, my Superb Greenline is effectively excused from that part of the test per Dept of Transport guidance until a new more sensitive machine is developed. This means that every time an affected car is submitted for an MOT, the testing station have to complete a official waiver form and submit it to the Dept for transport along with the other MOT returns. I watched him complete the waiver and put it in the envelope. Apparently when this first happened it was very frustrating for the testing centres as nobody knew what to do.

 

I know we are talking about different tailpipe emissions here to those in the global controversy for NOX, but I did find it more than ironic that a car affected by the recall effectively gets a waiver from testing for emissions at the MOT because they are so low that they cannot be measured by the current machines.  :sun:      "

Edited 24 October, 2015 by 05surveyor