1.5 SEL first gear issue.

[Ootohere]

@fidelio

But you can and do have. 

You have different environmental influences, climate / temperatures and fuel.  

Edited 18 July, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[fidelio]

In my case it does it cold ar warm, summer or winter, more or less but its there!

I was talking about same country reports in any case.

Edited 18 July, 2019 by fidelio

[xman]

3 hours ago, agedbriar said:

You still believe it's a mechanical issue?

 

Yet another Xman hypothesis...

 

It can't be a case of reducing this problem to a simple mechanical defect or software programming issue.

 

IMO it is much more complex, it's a system design issue. Many things interact in a modern engine.

 

Just one possibility, though of course it maybe something completely different.

 

The 1.5 tsi cylinder head has been totally redesigned, shape of combustion chamber changed, piston crowns different shape, valves at different, shallower angles, and the integrated inlet and exhaust manifolds "optimised", never mind the whole inlet air path/intercooler/fuel system completely new. 

 

Modern engines are designed so air flows into the cylinders in a controlled way that generates swirl, and creates just the right mixture at the plug.

Charge stratification may or may not be employed at idle. (The S in TSI). For economy. 

 

It could be that the design changes have pushed something to the edge of stability, and some engines occasionally fail to create the expected cylinder conditions momentarily at low speed and the ECU struggles to adjust the many things it can to regain control. 

 

Many other possibilities, could be an optimisation too far, or a clever trick employed that has limits in the real world.

 

Hey, Sorry if you're eyes have glazed over or you think ”what a load of blx"

 

In any case, looks as if VAG execs have already decided it's good enough and not going to spend mega money to please a few unsatisfied customers.

 

 

[Hairball]

I may be talking complete garbage here but this looks like an end to end power train calibration issue, only part of which VAG may have control of and is possibly why we get the "it will learn your driving over many miles" jargon. I'd guess that the many electronic parts in the drive train some are from third parties and that the 1.5 is very sensitive to it's calibration such that in some circumstances when calibrated end to end of the drive train it's on or over the edge to keep emissions etc compliance. I'd guess the fix may require re-calibration of not just the engine ECU but tightening tolerances on other parts (read more expensive if replacement parts need to be changed, hardware + labour to fit etc) . I'm not trying to provide any excuse for VAG for selling a product that in some cases is deemed faulty or more worrying dangerous just some thoughts on a possible cause for the delay in fixing the problem. I've said it before and will again, buyers are not beta testers for the factory.

[agedbriar]

2 hours ago, xman said:

Hey, Sorry if you're eyes have glazed over or you think ”what a load of blx"

No, it's not about glazed eyes,    it's only about my seeing the reason in the desire to reduce CO2 emissions to the extreme rather than being a mechanical defect.

 

I'm basing my reasoning on the following:

 

- cars which don't run smoothly in first gear, have been reported to run smoothly in reverse, even accelerating (since reverse driving isn't included in the WLTP testing procedure there is no reason to go to the extremes keeping the emissions down in that mode);

 

- with DSG kangarooing is rare, although the engine is the same, while the ECU isn't;

 

- no case of kangarooing reported for 1.5 DSG 4x4, again same engine and different ECU and substantially higher CO2 emissions;

 

- there are reports of issue resolved through software update.

 

 

Edited 18 July, 2019 by agedbriar

[shyVRS245]

10 minutes ago, agedbriar said:

No, it's not about glazed eyes,    it's only about my seeing the reason in the desire to reduce CO2 emissions to the extreme rather than being a mechanical defect.

 

I'm basing my reasoning on the following:

 

- cars which don't run smoothly in first gear, have been reported to run smoothly in reverse, even accelerating (since reverse driving isn't included in the WLTP testing procedure there is no reason to go to the extremes keeping the emissions down in that mode);

 

- with DSG kangarooing is rare, although the engine is the same, while the ECU isn't;

 

- no case of kangarooing reported for 1.5 DSG 4x4, again same engine and different ECU and substantially higher CO2 emissions;

 

- there are reports of issue resolved through software update.

 

 

Tend to agree with your summary as our 1.5TSi manual front wheel drive Karoq has the lowest possible co2 at 124gm/km and therefore is the most economical version with that engine. The only downside is the overly lean fuel mixture at low revs in 1st gear. Apart from that it would score a perfect 10 out of 10 with both myself and wife who drives it more than me. Over 17,000 miles on the clock now (still not had it's 1st FREE service) and I will not allow them to touch the ECU or apply any fix that may increase the consumption as that will cost us money in higher fuel consumption.Long term 48.5mpg on the maxidot over 92 hours driving. Managed 58.5mpg yesterday on the usual 27 mile commute with the Air Con set to 17C.

[fidelio]

34 minutes ago, agedbriar said:

No, it's not about glazed eyes,    it's only about my seeing the reason in the desire to reduce CO2 emissions to the extreme rather than being a mechanical defect.

 

I'm basing my reasoning on the following:

 

- cars which don't run smoothly in first gear, have been reported to run smoothly in reverse, even accelerating (since reverse driving isn't included in the WLTP testing procedure there is no reason to go to the extremes keeping the emissions down in that mode);

 

- with DSG kangarooing is rare, although the engine is the same, while the ECU isn't;

 

- no case of kangarooing reported for 1.5 DSG 4x4, again same engine and different ECU and substantially higher CO2 emissions;

 

- there are reports of issue resolved through software update.

 

 

I believe that software only covers for it and i will explain why.

Mine is an MY18 bought a bit over a year ago. When new, it didnt have the kangaaroo included. Instead it had a behavior of reving itself when starting off (even with no foot on the gas petal). Back then, most people called it "anti-stall" mechanism. A few months after i had an ECU fault incident and skoda service applied a software update. That's when the anti-stall mechanism was gone ang kangaroo popped out of the hood.    

[Hairball]

1 hour ago, shyVRS245 said:

- no case of kangarooing reported for 1.5 DSG 4x4, again same engine and different ECU and substantially higher CO2 emissions;

 

I guess the jury is still out on this one, The 4x4 DSG was only produced for the UK for a short period of time, I have yet to drive my car in cold temperatures so the Skippy gene may well manifest itself in the next 6 months. I'll keep you posted.

 

Agreed they will all have different ECU builds, manual, DSG, 4x4 etc..

 

UPDATE: Incorrect quote. Quote should be fromagedbriar not shyVRS245 Apologies to shyVRS245

Edited 18 July, 2019 by Hairball

[shyVRS245]

30 minutes ago, Hairball said:

 

I guess the jury is still out on this one, The 4x4 DSG was only produced for the UK for a short period of time, I have yet to drive my car in cold temperatures so the Skippy gene may well manifest itself in the next 6 months. I'll keep you posted.

 

Agreed they will all have different ECU builds, manual, DSG, 4x4 etc..

Sorry to be pedantic but AGEDBRIAR quoted the above comment not me SHY.

[Janner74]

On 17/07/2019 at 12:14, tigermad said:

I don't understand why some cars owners claim to have the problem and some don't. Surely all the cars should have it, whats the difference?

When I spoke to Skoda UK recently they said that they were finding it hard to find a solution as the issue doesn't affect all the 1.5 engines even if they were build around the same time.

[Hairball]

23 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Sorry to be pedantic but AGEDBRIAR quoted the above comment not me SHY.

 

My humble apologies shyvrs245, I just clicked on the highlighted quote, sorry.

 

Post updated to reflect incorrect quote.

Edited 18 July, 2019 by Hairball

[agedbriar]

The 1.5 TSI, in my wiew, is a great engine, but some samples don't respond well when forced down to 124 g CO2/km, as is the case with the 2x4 manual.

 

I'm afraid we are going to see even more of this in the future. From 2021, phased in from 2020, the EU fleet-wide average emission target for new cars will be 95 g CO2/km (down from current 130 g).

[bigjohn]

I think you may be onto something. When I tested the Karoq 1.5tsi when I floored it it felt somehow held back - whereas my lower powered but not as efficient 1.4 Superb (EA111 125ps) does not. This may simply be because the car I drove only had a few miles on it - it put me off though!

 

In the past my father in law had a MKI Fiat Punto 1.216v sporting that went like a fly off a hot brick - later on mrs bigjohn had the nextgen Fiat Punto 1.216v hlx with theoretically the same powered engine that also somehow felt held back but was supposed to be much more efficient - progress indeed. Saying that the earlier version did mid 30's mpg and the later version usually did over 40 mpg.

 

To be honest I originally expected the old 1.4tsi to feel a bit flat/held back in the large Superb - the test drive said otherwise - so I bought it! I don't know whether fuel makes a difference though my 1.4tsi performs better with higher octane petrol although economy is about the same.

Edited 18 July, 2019 by bigjohn

[TheRealExile]

12 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

Tend to agree with your summary as our 1.5TSi manual front wheel drive Karoq has the lowest possible co2 at 124gm/km and therefore is the most economical version with that engine. The only downside is the overly lean fuel mixture at low revs in 1st gear. Apart from that it would score a perfect 10 out of 10 with both myself and wife who drives it more than me. Over 17,000 miles on the clock now (still not had it's 1st FREE service) and I will not allow them to touch the ECU or apply any fix that may increase the consumption as that will cost us money in higher fuel consumption.Long term 48.5mpg on the maxidot over 92 hours driving. Managed 58.5mpg yesterday on the usual 27 mile commute with the Air Con set to 17C.

I was getting nowhere near that before mine was confined to the dealership! although it may have something to do with my anti kangaroo start off method of driving like I have stolen it 

[xman]

1.5tsi engines have disappeared from Superbs and Kodiaqs on the Skoda configurator.

[TonyTonic]

1 minute ago, xman said:

1.5tsi engines have disappeared from Superbs and Kodiaqs on the Skoda configurator.

And from the SEAT Tarraco as well

[AMC150]

1 hour ago, TonyTonic said:

And from the SEAT Tarraco as well

I wonder why?????

Maybe they’ve found something they don’t like for example, the engine dying when moving off or it having developed marsupial tendencies.

After all, the engine has only been around two years!! 

[xman]

I suspect a heavily revised 1.5tsi in the works or doing an Audi and ultimately changing to a 2.0tsi 150ps in which case they've given up on it.

 

Either way, WLTP/RDE recertification will be required.

 

Edit: there doesn't appear to be any 1.5tsi options on the Seat Leon as well!

Edited 19 July, 2019 by xman

[RMCM]

But the marsupial tendency is a 'characteristic' and therefore it must have been designed and built to do this!

[tigermad]

2 hours ago, xman said:

1.5tsi engines have disappeared from Superbs and Kodiaqs on the Skoda configurator.

 

Are you sure they have been there recently? Still available on Karoqs

[xman]

1 minute ago, tigermad said:

 

Are you sure they have been there recently? Still available on Karoqs

Superb facelift was launched last month with 1.5 tsi on SE and SEL trims

 

Lots of changes across VAG (UK) it seems

[AMC150]

31 minutes ago, RMCM said:

But the marsupial tendency is a 'characteristic' and therefore it must have been designed and built to do this!

Oh yes! A characteristic!! 

Of course.

I’d forgotten about that.

 

[agedbriar]

1 hour ago, xman said:

I suspect a heavily revised 1.5tsi in the works

Me too. The current 1.5 TSI won't be able to survive in the oncoming 95 g CO2/km austerity.

[Ootohere]

Even 1.0 TSI 110/115 PS engines with GPF's are not going to stand up to the WLTP / RDE testing and give the results needed.

Some disappearing as well in various VW Group models.

 

Too much Irregular /Implausible results maybe on vehicles that last year got Certification / Approval.

No point them driving as needed in testing if the 'Real world' experience driving them can be dangerous.

[tigermad]

2 minutes ago, Roottootemoot said:

Even 1.0 TSI 110/115 PS engines with GPF's are not going to stand up to the WLTP / RDE testing and give the results needed.

Some disappearing as well in various VW Group models.

 

Too much Irregular /Implausible results maybe on vehicles that last year got Certification / Approval.

No point them driving as needed in testing if the 'Real world' experience driving them can be dangerous.

Which vws are disappearing?