Turbo Swap Choices for EA211 1.2 TSI

[Eladshaul]

56 minutes ago, Monkey_Dan said:

 

So that's what, 194 bhp at the crank? What's the rest of your setup? Considering the RTMG turbo in the future.

Also what was the solution with the actuator?

Tuner said dsg7 loses 20hp at wheels so maybe 185 crank , i have the rtmg hybrid, 2.5 downpipe , ngk r spark plugs and thats it power wise..

[Monkey_Dan]

28 minutes ago, Eladshaul said:

Tuner said dsg7 loses 20hp at wheels so maybe 185 crank , i have the rtmg hybrid, 2.5 downpipe , ngk r spark plugs and thats it power wise..

Just dug out my last dyno print, I have DSG too. Using the 1.4 turbo and mst intake gave 154whp and a calculated 177bhp at the crank. Got a run booked on the 11th as since then I've got the smooth turbo inlet from mst and the full turbo-back exhaust 2.5 inch with sports cat.

Just doing a run out of curiosity more than anything else.

[FabiaGonzales]

4 hours ago, Eladshaul said:

Ahh ok , i got my tune yesterday, running the rtmg hybrid turbo .

made 165 whp and 290 nm (from about 2200 rpm to redline ) on the dyno with 95 octane , tuner suggested switching to 99 octane saying i can probably gain 20 more hp... 

 

I doubt 99 octane would gain that much. You gain a couple degrees extra timing but that's about it.

 

The exhaust is what holds everything back past about the 180 mark.

 

The JBS hybrid can push considerably more than the 206 ftlb / 280nm that JBS gave it, we only left it at that for the longevity of the rods and to reduce stresses while i get a sport cat downpipe sorted for it. Its torque also comes in around 1800rpm, though it's limited to about 170ftlb until 2200 to try keep the stock clutch happy (i've done 10k on the stock clutch and it feels no different to when i first had it done, but then again, i don't hard shift or flat foot shift like some do.. 😂 )

 

The RTMG is based off the smaller 1.4 turbo which is a much similar design to the 1.2 turbo, the wastegate behaviour is much closer to the 1.2 turbo as a result so it shouldn't really have any issues with that.

 

I'm surprised the RTMG only made that much considering how massive the turbine / compressor are, what's spool time like? Once i've got my exhaust sorted i should be making around the 200bhp region and a tad more torque through the mid range since the clutch seems ok with it.

[Eladshaul]

3 hours ago, FabiaGonzales said:

 

I doubt 99 octane would gain that much. You gain a couple degrees extra timing but that's about it.

 

The exhaust is what holds everything back past about the 180 mark.

 

The JBS hybrid can push considerably more than the 206 ftlb / 280nm that JBS gave it, we only left it at that for the longevity of the rods and to reduce stresses while i get a sport cat downpipe sorted for it. Its torque also comes in around 1800rpm, though it's limited to about 170ftlb until 2200 to try keep the stock clutch happy (i've done 10k on the stock clutch and it feels no different to when i first had it done, but then again, i don't hard shift or flat foot shift like some do.. 😂 )

 

The RTMG is based off the smaller 1.4 turbo which is a much similar design to the 1.2 turbo, the wastegate behaviour is much closer to the 1.2 turbo as a result so it shouldn't really have any issues with that.

 

I'm surprised the RTMG only made that much considering how massive the turbine / compressor are, what's spool time like? Once i've got my exhaust sorted i should be making around the 200bhp region and a tad more torque through the mid range since the clutch seems ok with it.

Spool is real quick probably because turbine is billet and i was told that i could have made 10 more hp on 95 but temp readings were starting to get high + the temp outside was 40 degrees and i wanted trust ability, ill probably go back to tune it to 98 next month and thats when i am stopping.. more power seems pointless and expensive..

[FabiaGonzales]

58 minutes ago, Eladshaul said:

Spool is real quick probably because turbine is billet and i was told that i could have made 10 more hp on 95 but temp readings were starting to get high + the temp outside was 40 degrees and i wanted trust ability, ill probably go back to tune it to 98 next month and thats when i am stopping.. more power seems pointless and expensive..

Yeah exhaust needs upgrading, the backpressure from the stock cat hurts spool and increases cylinder pressure and temps alot, its bad for the engine and the turbo, free flowing exhaust reduces those temps so you can oush it further.

 

180bhp is about as far as you want to go on the stock exhaust, you can force more through it but the car will start pulling power cos of it, i suspect that's partly what the surging was all along, trying to push too much gas through the exhaust, backing everything up, o2 sensor would detect its too hot and itd pull timing and boost, the whacky wastegate probably didn't help either.

 

200ftlbs region is safe for the rods, beyond that is kinda untested in terms if reliability, mine made 230-240ftlbs before without spontaneously ejecting themselves out the side of the block lol

[Oneshotlpm]

5 hours ago, FabiaGonzales said:

 

I doubt 99 octane would gain that much. You gain a couple degrees extra timing but that's about it.

 

The exhaust is what holds everything back past about the 180 mark.

 

The JBS hybrid can push considerably more than the 206 ftlb / 280nm that JBS gave it, we only left it at that for the longevity of the rods and to reduce stresses while i get a sport cat downpipe sorted for it. Its torque also comes in around 1800rpm, though it's limited to about 170ftlb until 2200 to try keep the stock clutch happy (i've done 10k on the stock clutch and it feels no different to when i first had it done, but then again, i don't hard shift or flat foot shift like some do.. 😂 )

 

The RTMG is based off the smaller 1.4 turbo which is a much similar design to the 1.2 turbo, the wastegate behaviour is much closer to the 1.2 turbo as a result so it shouldn't really have any issues with that.

 

I'm surprised the RTMG only made that much considering how massive the turbine / compressor are, what's spool time like? Once i've got my exhaust sorted i should be making around the 200bhp region and a tad more torque through the mid range since the clutch seems ok with it.

 

I have a 2.5 inch exhaust with 2.75 inch downpipe and sports cat and I'm well over 200 😉 so you should make 200. First mod you should always do is the exhaust, it's a huge restriction! 

 

Speak to rich at JBS and he will see you right. 

[Oneshotlpm]

1 hour ago, Eladshaul said:

Spool is real quick probably because turbine is billet and i was told that i could have made 10 more hp on 95 but temp readings were starting to get high + the temp outside was 40 degrees and i wanted trust ability, ill probably go back to tune it to 98 next month and thats when i am stopping.. more power seems pointless and expensive..

 

Mines mapped on 99. You definitely won't see 20bhp more from running higher grade fuel 😂 who the heck told you that? 

[Silmirael]

Hey guys! I have a golf 7 1.2 tsi with a stage 1 map, custom downpipe 70mm (2.7inch) , not dynotested, but it is around 130hp and 217Nm (torque tested with VCDS before downpipe install )

I have been reading this forum, and was thinking of going stage 3 with a 1.4 turbo 140/150 hp ( since nobody really makes hybrid turbos in Tunisia ).

Questions: 1) can i keep the stage 1 boost pressure, and how much unicorns and torque should i get? 

2) How about reliability ? How many Km (or miles :p) did you guys do with hybrid/1.4 turbos?

3) I saw that Monkey_Dan solved the boost fluctuation issue with a new exhaut, do you think i should be ok with 2.7 inch catless downpipe?

And btw what boost pressure are you on Monkey_Dan?

Finally i'd like to thank Fabia Gonzales and all the other members for this topic, it was a pleasure reading it

[Monkey_Dan]

2 hours ago, Silmirael said:

Hey guys! I have a golf 7 1.2 tsi with a stage 1 map, custom downpipe 70mm (2.7inch) , not dynotested, but it is around 130hp and 217Nm (torque tested with VCDS before downpipe install )

I have been reading this forum, and was thinking of going stage 3 with a 1.4 turbo 140/150 hp ( since nobody really makes hybrid turbos in Tunisia ).

Questions: 1) can i keep the stage 1 boost pressure, and how much unicorns and torque should i get? 

2) How about reliability ? How many Km (or miles :p) did you guys do with hybrid/1.4 turbos?

3) I saw that Monkey_Dan solved the boost fluctuation issue with a new exhaut, do you think i should be ok with 2.7 inch catless downpipe?

And btw what boost pressure are you on Monkey_Dan?

Finally i'd like to thank Fabia Gonzales and all the other members for this topic, it was a pleasure reading it

 

I'm running 1.5 bar, your exhaust will be fine, RTMG are based in Greece

[Silmirael]

I booked a turbo with number 04E 145 721 B for about 234 mark. It has no play, just a broken electric pin of the actuator, we will be using the pins from an old 1.2 turbo and keep the 1.4 actuator. I'll put the dyno chart after a week or so. 

should i get it remapped or keep the stage 1 map since i don't want a big increase in power to keep the car reliable ?  (the remap will be more expensive than the turbo  )

Also i noticed with the stage 1 map an annoying slippage at full throttle on steep slopes with the ESP flashing on the instrument cluster. If i put ASR disabled the car will ascend smoothly with no problem, it's just annoying having to put ASR off everytime.

 

[Monkey_Dan]

Latest dyno print from Road Rage Performance after my visit today. Since moving premises and changing his dyno he's found his old setup overread torque so my old peak torque of 336Nm was inaccurate. Since then I've added a DIY cold air feed, MST turbo inlet and the big change was the 2.5inch turbo-back exhaust with sports cat. I'm now seeing peak bhp of 183bhp @ 6170rpm and 296Nm @ 2820

 

[Silmirael]

Nice powerband from 2800 to 4000 rpm. 120 Nm at 2000rpm, doesn't the stock 1.2 tsi manages to get 175 Nm at 2000 rpm?

Also a multimap would be awesome: 125bhp and 230Nm for daily driving and a sport map if you're in a hurry :p

[Monkey_Dan]

28 minutes ago, Silmirael said:

Nice powerband from 2800 to 4000 rpm. 120 Nm at 2000rpm, doesn't the stock 1.2 tsi manages to get 175 Nm at 2000 rpm?

Also a multimap would be awesome: 125bhp and 230Nm for daily driving and a sport map if you're in a hurry :p

 

Stock is quoted as 175Nm at 1400rpm. I'm willing to live with that slight deficit 🤣🤣

[FabiaGonzales]

A 70bhp difference between power at the wheels and power at the engine seems off to me.

 

That's a 37.5% loss through the drivetrain.

 

Have you ever tried for a top speed run?

 

Would be nice if we all went to the same place for dyno runs 😂

[Monkey_Dan]

44 minutes ago, FabiaGonzales said:

A 70bhp difference between power at the wheels and power at the engine seems off to me.

 

That's a 37.5% loss through the drivetrain.

 

Have you ever tried for a top speed run?

 

Would be nice if we all went to the same place for dyno runs 😂

 

Think it's due to it being DSG, it doesn't run down the same after the run.

I don't have a suitable private runway for a top speed run lol.

 

 

[Silmirael]

On 11/05/2021 at 11:12, Monkey_Dan said:

Latest dyno print from Road Rage Performance after my visit today. Since moving premises and changing his dyno he's found his old setup overread torque so my old peak torque of 336Nm was inaccurate. Since then I've added a DIY cold air feed, MST turbo inlet and the big change was the 2.5inch turbo-back exhaust with sports cat. I'm now seeing peak bhp of 183bhp @ 6170rpm and 296Nm @ 2820

 

Actually it's 210Nm at 2000rpm hahaha

[Monkey_Dan]

1 hour ago, Silmirael said:

Actually it's 210Nm at 2000rpm hahaha

 Yep, reading the units off the wrong side

[Silmirael]

Got the 1.4 turbo fitted today (04E 145 721 . Noticed a big loss in torque compared to my stage 1 with 1.2 turbo. Going to remap it tomorrow, finger crossed.

[FabiaGonzales]

1 minute ago, Silmirael said:

Got the 1.4 turbo fitted today (04E 145 721 . Noticed a big loss in torque compared to my stage 1 with 1.2 turbo. Going to remap it tomorrow, finger crossed.

You will notice a difference especially at low rpms, the 1.4 turbo spools much slower so it's got that going against it too. You will certainly notice the difference when you have it mapped in properly.

[Silmirael]

I hope so, you should have seen my face when i first tried it after the 1.4 install  , it was like going back to stock with even less torque at low rpm. ( it has some good torque after 3000 rpm though)

[FabiaGonzales]

2 minutes ago, Silmirael said:

I hope so, you should have seen my face when i first tried it after the 1.4 install  , it was like going back to stock with even less torque at low rpm. ( it has some good torque after 3000 rpm though)

That's what you get from a bigger turbo, they come in a few hundred rpms later (stock around 1400rpm, 1.4 turbo around 2100rpm, jbs hybrid around 1800rpm), but they shine when it comes to holding the boost to higher rpms.

 

standard turbo can do 1.2-1.25 bar peak safely, but drops off to 0.9-1.0 bar at redline, the 1.4 turbo will do 1.5 bar peak safely, but will drop off to 1.2-1.3 bar toward redline, the hybrid is designed for 1.7 bar peak and to drop off to 1.5 bar toward redline, though with the standard exhaust it's restricted to similar numbers as the 1.4 turbo can make.

 

Sports cat will help in all situations, but with the standard and 1.4 turbo, the main restriction is the exhaust turbine of the turbo itself (standard 140 ish, 1.4 185-190 ish), so you will gain some but not massive amounts of power by having a sports cat. The hybrid turbo is designed to flow around 220bhp, so that is restricted by the exhaust (180-185 ish), a sports cat on that will allow for over 200bhp, a nice juicy bump!

 

I'm in the process of saving up for and getting a custom exhaust made over the next few months, i'll then pop it back in to JBS for a tune up and see what kind of numbers we get from it then 😁

[Silmirael]

Dyno results : first with 1.4 turbo and unknown stage 1 map:143 hp and 256 Nm. Then reverted back to stock map: 129 hp and 193Nm. Took a long time for the tuners to make a custom map, so I'll come back tomorrow and test it, hope it will make some good power.

 

PS: you can see in the first chart lots of fluctuations, my tuner said it was the HPFP, and showed me its chart ,which shows the same fluctuations. Not a major problem though.

[Silmirael]

[Silmirael]

150 hp , 240 Nm that's the max with very bad quality fuel. 

 

 

[Silmirael]

Hello guys, does anyone know if the golf R injectors/ rail can fit the 1.2 tsi ?  ( i can get them from a crashed R) or what are the available solutions to upgrade the injectors and the HPFP ? Thank you