Felicia Combi 1.3 - what oil?

[nta16]

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

@Thefeliciahacker will not be happy with this viscosity suggestion. 

No, well, this is a recommendation based on the Motul UK representative probably using the Motul database and for the sake of meeting VW's dictates going with their 504 00 507 00 requirements and for a UK vehicle use.  Plus all previous caveats mentioned in this thread and the other(s) must also be taken into consideration.

 

Perhaps it would be interesting to know what oil VW would recommend for your car in its location and use (if they have such records and information other than what you and others have already presented from the period publications.

 

 

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

This occurs only when the car is completely cold

Perhaps the oil is too "thin" when the car is completely cold or perhaps the oil drains out of the pressure switch area, or the cold electronics are slower to react or faulty/worn/ modern not well made.

 

You would be a nervous wreck if you ran a British made 60s/70s car with a Rover V8 engine and looking at its oil pressure gauge, or 90s car with also an oil temperature gauge and using the car in winter.  You would though worry less about petrol consumption, particularly if the car is on carb(s).  😄

 

Edited 8 December, 2023 by nta16

[D.FYLAKTOS]

9 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Perhaps it would be interesting to know what oil VW would recommend for your car in its location and use (if they have such records and information other than what you and others have already presented from the period publications.

 

I asked via mail one of the most famous Skoda-racers here in Greece (with all Skoda models and of course with Felicia too).

He suggested me 10W-40 and if i decise to use my car for track-day a 10W-60.

 

12 minutes ago, nta16 said:

looking at its oil pressure gauge

 

I had one 52mm Chinese made, it's adaptor after some years cause me problem (quite paradoxically at the day of MOT) with the red light blinking when it wanted and i remove it.

[nta16]

33 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

He suggested me 10W-40 and if i decise to use my car for track-day a 10W-60

So a 10w-50 would be in between those for summer mountain use.  I once used Mobil 1 10w-60 as I was told the 60 would drop to 50 with use, I can't remember anything about or with its use or than next annual service I used Millers for the first time, a 15w-50 Classic High Performance, which they changed to Classic High Performance 20w50 NT by the next annual service.

 

 

33 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

had one 52mm Chinese made

Imagine the fun you could have watching the needle on a very cold start - how high will it go and how long will it stay there, then with hard use of the car on a hot day and car at idle - how low with it go, and how much will the needle move with use of the car at various times, could be more distracting whilst driving than a phone call or ****Nav or anything else from a "smart phone".  😄 

Edited 8 December, 2023 by nta16

[D.FYLAKTOS]

2 minutes ago, nta16 said:

  I once used Mobil 1 10w-60 as I was told the 60 would drop to 50 with use

 

Most 10W-60 have the ''racing'' indication so i hesitate to use them, also the 300V competition Motuls series (one use it many years ago).

 

3 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Imagine the fun you could have watching the needle

 

Was in central console and cause me nothing than troubles (distratction, hesitation about the engine oil condition etc) and remove it.

Same with Vacuum gauge front-left in driver's pillar, nice looking (like turbo boost gauge) but the up-and-down move of the needle (a his ''last days'') made me very nervous, so i throw it away.

[Thefeliciahacker]

On 07/12/2023 at 12:02, D.FYLAKTOS said:

One think that worries me is that the red light (with engine oil indication) when the car is Cold takes 2 seconds to turn-off when the other lights already are off.

That means that the engine oil pump start had difficulties with the existed 5W oil or it's natural?

 

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

As in the 1st video but a fraction of a second more, only in morning cold start.

 

The 15W-50 oil arrived tonight.

[RicardoM]

Motor Oil Bible.pdf

[nta16]

On 07/12/2023 at 10:02, D.FYLAKTOS said:

One think that worries me is that the red light (with engine oil indication) when the car is Cold takes 2 seconds to turn-off when the other lights already are off.

 . . . or perhaps another Felica owner steps in to put that's normal - (I thought about it but) I'm glad I didn't need to spell it out and it happened, shows the community help, and greater expertise and knowledge of the car through ownership.

 

 

6 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Most 10W-60 have the ''racing'' indication so i hesitate to use them

Just as one example - Mobil 1 Extended Life 10W-60 - "engineered for the specific demands of older vehicles" "engineered to help provide long lasting protection in higher mileage engines so you can get long life out of your vehicle" "designed to help provide the extra protection that older engines can demand. It is suitable for virtually all types of older vehicles and operating conditions" "has the following builder approvals: VW 501 01 / 505 00". - https://www.mobil.com/en-mk/passenger-vehicle-lube/pds/gl-xx-mobil-1-extended-life-10w60

 

 

6 hours ago, nta16 said:

Imagine the fun you could have watching the needle

I was being a bit sarcastic with that, British humour, my point was that you would find the information very distracting and at times worrying.  The way to use the gauges is to learn where the needle should point with your car and occasional glances to see that the needle is in the usual area and not keep a near  constant attention on the gauge and not worry too much about book figures or the figures others get on their cars.  A digital readout would be madness it would have your eyeballs spinning with the changes sometimes.  😄

 

 

5 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

The [Total Quartz (?5000/7000?)] 15W-50 oil arrived tonight

So begins another chapter, don't just measure it on ultimate levels of fuel consumption rather all round performance and protection of your engine.  Good luck with it.  👍

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

4 hours ago, nta16 said:

or perhaps another Felica owner steps in to put that's normal

 

This morning with '8 C the delay was barely 2 seconds.

 

4 hours ago, nta16 said:

you would find the information very distracting and at times worrying. 

 

Yes it was, my attention was there and i was feeling uncomfortable.

 

4 hours ago, nta16 said:

Just as one example - Mobil 1 Extended Life 10W-60

 

I saw some 10W-50 here but are very expensive.

As for 10W-60 the majority have "racing" or "race" or "supercar" or "ester" on their label although there are 2-3 exceptions.

In Mobil-1 says for cars more than 150.000 but it's too premature for my car since i have 90.000 Km.

 

The fuel consumption at City traffic now with 5W-40 is 12ltr/100km (23,54 UK Mpg).

I hope in the next 2 days to make the oil change with 15W-50 and see the results.

 

[nta16]

12 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

As for 10W-60 the majority have "racing" or "race" or "supercar" or "ester" on their label although there are 2-3 exceptions.

Don't take things too literally, the racing ain't always Formula 1 stuff, I've used Mobil 1 "Motorsport" oils and Millers classic high performance (sports) engine oils, also Millers (modern) "Motorsport" oils in the gearbox and rear axle, and I have no interest in motorsport and have only a few times been round tracks and at less than 70mph, slower than when on European roads.  Most classic car and classic racing car owners are as tight as a duck' s ar"se (and that is water tight) so they don't over spend on things like oils, the oils are just good and better quality oils if you need or want them with of course a steep law of diminishing returns for extra cost often (but not always if you get them when on offer or change of branding, labelling or formula).

 

 

12 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

In Mobil-1 says for cars more than 150.000 but it's too premature for my car since i have 90.000 Km.

Again mileage is just a guide it is more about the wear and tear and use and abuse of the engine, the extra protection may not go amiss on a 23 year old used engine and the 60 useful perhaps for hot city and hard mountain driving.  But again the 10w-60 Extended Life was just an example.

 

 

12 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

The fuel consumption at City traffic now with 5W-40 is 12ltr/100km (23,54 UK Mpg).

I hope in the next 2 days to make the oil change with 15W-50 and see the results.

If anything I would have thought the fuel consumption would possibly be slightly higher with a 15w-50 against a 5w-40 in colder weather but it also depends a bit on the two oils and I am no expert (in anything) but the engine oil isn't just about getting ultimate fuel consumption so as with everything with cars and the ancient technology of the internal combustion engine it is all about compromises to hopefully reach a reasonable overall given all factors.

 

As with the vacuum gauge, the TC-6 is good to see when things stray from the norm but you mustn't be slavish to it.

 

A timely and thorough oil (and filter) change can sometimes be more important than which of all the appropriate oils is used and important whichever is used.

 

You are going to need a good spreadsheet and graphs to compare all the oils against consumptions.  🙃

 

Good luck.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

If anything I would have thought the fuel consumption would possibly be slightly higher with a 15w-50 against a 5w-40

 

I will give that 15W-50 a fair try, City traffic-Highway-Mountain roads and if it gets lower results i will abandon it forever.

Maybe i will try next a 10W-50 or a 10W-60 but if they fail too then 10W-40 is the only option left.

[nta16]

15 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Maybe i will try next a 10W-50 or a 10W-60 but if they fail too then 10W-40 is the only option left.

Do bear in mind as all the oils will be different makes and models of the multigrades it is not a direct comparison of one multigrade scale of oil against another multigrade scale of oil and you could get different results from using different makes and models of the same multigrade scale of oil.

 

It might be that even if a particular oil. or oils, doesn't meet your expectations of fuel consumption it may shine in other area(s) so you may want to consider overall results, particularly of engine protection, rather than just lowest fuel consumption, before making a decision of which to stay with.  For engine wear as a complete engine strip down and analysis at the end of each oil use isn't going to happen analysis of the used oil is the next step, or listening and worrying about every sound from the engine.   But I think you will pick good quality oils that will protect your engine in 15w-50, 10w-40s or if you try 10w-50 or 10w-60.

 

The search goes on, you will soon have enough graphs of results for a Powerpoint presentation, or perhaps a Youtube video, too much for a Tik-Tok (not that I have ever seen a Tik-Tok or whatever others are called).  Good luck.  😄

Edited 10 December, 2023 by nta16

[D.FYLAKTOS]

On 30/11/2023 at 12:11, Rooted said:

(Shirley)

 

Maclaine?

_____________________

 

These are the last (Best-off) fuel consumption photos from 5W-40, i doubt if i see the same with 15W-50.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the new 15W-50 although it's too early for impressions the first two are:

The sound on the idle-first meters in Cold start is different, more quite than 5W , a bit "Suffocated".

The first Cold start today also was different, went to 800 rpm limit much faster than 5W-40, i will count it next time.

 

Waiting few days for fuel consumption and rev up capability.

 

[R_Blue]

On 21/11/2023 at 18:00, D.FYLAKTOS said:

So where's the weird thing of saying my impressions in a Skoda forum where other members can post their opinions?  Where is the problem anyway; 

No problem.

We are here for the agora.

We love it, we need it.

 

For the oil light going off late in cold starts, I suggest checking oil filter quality too.

Because, the oil being pumped first visits the filter. After filling the space in filter, it pressurizes properly and starts to flow into engine. That's why we fill the oil filter separately when making the oil+filter change.

The oil filter has a back-flow limiting membrane built into it. It should keep the oil inside after turning off the engine. If the oil filter has quality problems, (fake oil filters are common too like fake brand oils), the oil in it may be flowing back overtime when you leave the engine shut. Or maybe it's just the oil is too thin and the filter membrane can't keep it in.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

3 minutes ago, R_Blue said:

We are here for the agora.

 

Yes, ''Αγορα'' Is in Greek, in ancient Athens was the place for the people to talk for public matters, had the same rules as today in Forum (Admin-Thread opener-Warnings-Ban etc), looked like this:

 

 

The place among building with seats for the citizens was called ''Orchestra".

 

11 minutes ago, R_Blue said:

For the oil light going off late in cold starts, I suggest checking oil filter quality too.

 

Now with 15W-50 the Oil light immediately get's off, also i have changed the filter, from previous FIBA i went to MANN and i feel secure.

[Warrior193]

On 09/12/2023 at 06:30, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

This morning with '8 C the delay was barely 2 seconds.

 

 

Yes it was, my attention was there and i was feeling uncomfortable.

 

 

I saw some 10W-50 here but are very expensive.

As for 10W-60 the majority have "racing" or "race" or "supercar" or "ester" on their label although there are 2-3 exceptions.

In Mobil-1 says for cars more than 150.000 but it's too premature for my car since i have 90.000 Km.

 

The fuel consumption at City traffic now with 5W-40 is 12ltr/100km (23,54 UK Mpg).

I hope in the next 2 days to make the oil change with 15W-50 and see the results.

 

I can recall when it was usual (in competition cars) to put a very bright, red 'idiot' light somewhere in the line of vision for warning of oil pressure failure, as the driver was normally too busy with what's going on outside to worry too much about gauges.

The same reason applies to having the rev-counter max. tell-tale at vertical.

I shouldn't worry too much about the few seconds that oil pressure takes to build before the light goes off - it's an unavoidable feature of oil draining out of the feed galleries while the engine is stopped. The only way to prevent this would be to have an auxiliary electric oil pump (like a modern, EFI system fuel pump) to pre-charge the galleries before engine start. AFAIK, only F1 engines do this.

Obviously, as wear occurs in an engine and tolerances increase, it may take a little longer for the oil pressure to build - but this is likely to be balanced by the cooler oil having a higher viscosity. 

 

I recall that when synthetic oils started to be introduced, it was not recommended to mix them with petroleum-based oils -  it was considered important to ensure all old oil was flushed out of the engine. I could well be wrong, but I don't recall any advice that engines from the 70s were unsuitable for semi-synthetics or synthetics, apart from (I think) that it was ok to mix oil types with the semi-synthetics.     

[D.FYLAKTOS]

10 minutes ago, Warrior193 said:

but I don't recall any advice that engines from the 70s were unsuitable for semi-synthetics or synthetics

 

Felicia has a late 80's engine, i wonder why a Sythtetic can harm selas etc as some say.

 

On 09/12/2023 at 21:41, nta16 said:

I've used Mobil 1 "Motorsport" oils and Millers classic high performance (sports) engine oils

 

That's some sort of ''comfort'' to hear, the first impressions from Total Quartz (not Synthetic) are not satisfying me.

[nta16]

@Warrior193 you might have seen me put before but if not - I used Mobil 1 in my MGB 1.8 and 3.5 and Spridgets *and synthetics in other cars) from the 90s onwards AFAIK the engines were built in the 60s and 70s (designed in the 50s of course).  When I first started using the Mobil 1 I was told it'd ruin my engines and teeth and looks, usually by those who rarely used their classics whereas mine I used for years for work, commuting, 300 and 500 mile a week commutes for many months too, not so much the V8 though 🙃, holidays, club tours and events so put thousands of annual miles on each.   The engines were all fine with my use and subsequent owners - and I kept all my teeth and looks (and modesty).

   

[nta16]

5 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

i have changed the filter, from previous FIBA i went to MANN and i feel secure.

Not all filters have a drain back valve - but if it's a good filter and appropriate to the car it will have.

 

 

5 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

the first impressions from Total Quartz (not Synthetic) are not satisfying me

That doesn't surprise me but what aspects are you unsatisfied with?

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

That doesn't surprise me but what aspects are you unsatisfied with?

 

 

1) With 15W-50 the fuel consumption (in the same terrible City traffic) immediately raised.

 

 

 

Let's hope won't go any further but i don't think will reduced.

 

2) The sound of the motor in idle is a bit quieter, sounds with more ''bass'', the car also is one click quieter in 1500-2000 rpm.

3) I haven't got the chance to go to a boulevard to see how it goes after 4000 rpm but i have tried till 3500 and does not rev up so fast as the 5W-40 because the oil is thicker.

In few days i will make a trip and i will see how it goes in Highway and then in Mountain Roads but i am not optimistic about the 15W viscosity.

 

[nta16]

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

Total Quartz (not Synthetic)

Sorry I've only just noticed NOT synthetic, what possessed you, mineral 15w-50 is fine but you've been using synthetics for the other multigrade scales.

 

The 15w-50 (any good) synthetic I would have guessed would also give slightly higher fuel consumption and quieter idle but I would expect it to preform better than the 15w-50 mineral oil on cold starts and hot city and hot mountain summer drives.

 

I would not send you to the bar to get my English ale as you would probably come back with some European lager!  ☹️  😄

 

Edited 16 December, 2023 by nta16

[D.FYLAKTOS]

Another test today,

11 km of light traffic and boulevard where i manage to engage 4th gear for a while and 13 Km with very heavy traffic.

In the morning the fuel consumption was 12,2 and at night 12,7 ltr / 100 Km.

The first Cold start was weird, with temperature at 9 'C the needle was at 900-950 rpm trembling a bit and the motor had a rough sound like was trying to go higher but something couldn't let it. In few minutes everything was fine but when the engine get warm the rev up in boulevard didn't let me happy.

Also at night the coolant temperature was one click above from the previous 5W-40 limit.

My Trusty does not like the 15W-50.

[nta16]

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

My Trusty does not like the 15W-50. [ Mineral ]

Or is it more that you don't like the 15w-50 (Total Quartz mineral 15w-50), which is fine it is your car and your choice.

 

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Also at night the coolant temperature was one click above from the previous 5W-40 limit.

That makes sense, 5w-40 (and synthetic(?)) against a thicker 15w-50 (mineral) car running at night too when presumably colder and not in hot city traffic or demanding mountain run.

 

[RicardoM]

All conditions are created for destroying the engine and getting a more disastrous fuel consumption. Enjoy.

[Thefeliciahacker]

8 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

My Trusty does not like the 15W-50.

You don't like it