Breaking VW Emissions Scandal -Mk I

[fabdavrav]

News today says petrol models also affected

 

Read all that & so far it is unproven speculation.................................

[Aspman]

.

The Country is sinking under the weight of Used cars, and many of the older ones are less polution 

 

Natural laws of supply and demand don't seem to be working then coz used cars seem bleedin expensive to me :peek:

[Stuart_J]

This is the tip of the Iceberg,  live road tests as many have stated hardly any cars achieve anything like the claimed figures & a lot are many many times over & in time it will become apparent other manufacturers have tweaked things.

 

Other companies will be quietly "pooping themselves" as VAG cant be the only ones at it & people need to take a realistic view of that. How many have stood up & said "we don't cheat" Its all very quiet from others

 

Ive heard rumours another German manufacturer is now reloading software to every car through their telematics systems...., probably just another rumour

 

We all need to take a balanced view & that will take time , we need to wait for all the facts

 

Being realistic if we all want our money back or all want to sue then VAG will fold, then our cars will be worth didly squat & getting spares will be a nightmare

[classic]

Well, buying my car on pcp now looks even better ! If it all goes **ts up I'll just hand it back at the end and walk away reading a Nissan Leaf brochure.

[Ootohere]

[Clunkclick]

USA get a different set of engines, compared to the rest of the world.....literally.

 

VW makes two kinds of engine, for every variant:-

1. NA = North America

2. ROW = Rest Of the World

 

So for the 2.0L TSI variant for example:-

1. NA = CCTA

2. ROW = CCZA 

 

hence i think the "cheating" element only affects US specific engines, that don't meet US emissions.

the rest of the world, should be safe

 

 

http://phys.org/news/2015-04-discovery-breakthrough-hydrogen-cars.html

 

With the U.S. holding the patents on that recent breakthrough and similar, one might just elicit a motivation for the "Johnny Come lately" awakening by the US authorities and the possible future economic exploitation of  differences between US/European legislative standards (Using the facility of the TTIP). No doubt the Yanks will have the partners at the other end of their long-standing currency deal doing the manufacturing (One of the many reasons GO is keen for improved UK access to the Chinese stockmarket ?),

 

Lets hope they ally that to a move to subtsantially reduce vehicle kerb weights by improved design and materials.

 

Re-iterating a previous posters point, its interesting to note that, had this  event not occurred, European Governments and Car manufacturers. in full knowledge of all the deleterious health effects, would have been more than content for the European citizens to "Eat" Nox @ 80 mg a kilometre  (2.5 times the US maxima) and carbon particulate matter to match -something which the TV news were saying can be cured by spending an extra £200, at time of manufacture, on the exhaust system.

 

So, I fully expect the prospect of reduced downtime in the HM Govt pollution sensors in North-West London ? - remembering that London is now officially non-compliant with EU air pollution standards, such as they are . . .

 

Nick

Edited 23 September, 2015 by Clunkclick

[Llanigraham]

 

Yeah, I believe that will be the case. If VED goes up, VW will probably pick up the bill, like they currently do with models that have been incorrectly put in the wrong bracket. However, the vehicle would still be need to be made to comply at some point, which is the far worse part with much more serious consequences. If this is as bad as it is made out to be, I wouldn't rule out a buy-back program (with the cars then being dumped in less concerned countries).

 

A knock on from this will probably be that stricter checks for DPFs in the MOT will come much quicker along with NOx checks.

 

 

VED rates on a vehicle. There is nothing in the Legislation that allows retrospective alteration, other than on a change of engine. Therefore any change could only affect new cars that have been subjected to a new EU inspection and classification.

 

In general motoring, as far as I can tell, there would be no difference to the fuel consumption or emission levels. The "cheat" only comes into effect under very precise criteria, and not one you are likely to ever get. The nearest is when you have the car in neutral and try to rev it. The only time I have found this to be a problem was at an MSA Noise Check where revs are supposed to be held at a particular level. 

 

From reading some of the comments some of you are panicking unnecessarily and being a bit OTT.

[Pesmog]

I am still confused as to how I might be affected by this. My car performs okay and despite having the affected engine it passes its MOT and produces great fuel economy. The MOT computer doesn't read the software version of the ECU so if I don't update that then nothing will change. When I come to sell the a car nobody ever checks the software (unlike a couple of countries where this has to be done) and that won't change. The government (or VW) doesn't have the power to seize all the affected cars from their owners and as there are likely to be so many cars affected they would be unlikely to even attempt to do so,  and besides VW could never replace all the cars anyway   We are also not forced to service our cars at a Skoda dealer so again that is another way to avoid the issue.

 

Due to the scale of the problem the Government will take a pragmatic view and ask VW to handle it via a recall, but there are unlikely to be any consequences for those that don't comply as there never has been for people who ignore or are not aware of previous recalls and UK law is based upon precedent.    My gut feeling is that the upgrade won't be mandatory and it will be left to the owners to decide what to do.  I will probably do nothing.

[Ootohere]

Llanigraham,

Your UK MOT on your Diesel & Petrols has it in Neutral and revving.

 

But that is not what triggers the Defeat Device & its function,  so no worries on that front in the UK.

Unless there are other hidden software tweaks that will.

 

As to Skoda Dealerships & Servicing & your Vehicle having the Diagnostics done, 

so they should, (it is in Skoda UK Fixed Servicing as part of Minor & Major.)

 

As to Software Enhancements and Updates, 

also in the Skoda UK Fixed Servicing Price, as part of the Service being done.

 

But then they should be telling the Owner what was done and why it was done, 

and if they never did it.

As with Service Campaign Work, it is your Vehicle and it is Skoda Servicing not Skoda Secret Servicing.

 

People have sometimes put in good running cars that do good MPG, and drive away with cars not performing as well,

and that is not Because of a New Air Filter, Oil / Filter & Tyres Pumped up,

it can be because of a Skoda / VW Software Update / Enhancement they were not told was being done.

 

eg

http://trustgroupuk.com/skoda/offer/skoda-fixed-price-servicing

[Huskoda]

VED rates on a vehicle. There is nothing in the Legislation that allows retrospective alteration, other than on a change of engine. Therefore any change could only affect new cars that have been subjected to a new EU inspection and classification.

I know someone personally who had the tax band of their car changed after they bought it. Renault (the manufacturer) pay the difference for them.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Is there a decent list of which cars include the EA189 engine?

[skomaz]

skomaz: as I see it, the biggest issue is loss of trust and credibility that VW have brought on themselves.

There's a big difference between bending rules, and thoroughly breaking them and covering that up, and then being caught out in this.

 

Agreed - so tell me why you, personally, should be worried about that?

[Breezy_Pete]

Agreed - so tell me why you, personally, should be worried about that?

I'm not particularly worried, more disappointed.

When someone you trust lies to you, that's what happens isn't it, you get disappointed in their behaviour, and are less likely to trust them in future?

[nick74]

VED rates on a vehicle. There is nothing in the Legislation that allows retrospective alteration, other than on a change of engine. Therefore any change could only affect new cars that have been subjected to a new EU inspection and classification.

 

In general motoring, as far as I can tell, there would be no difference to the fuel consumption or emission levels. The "cheat" only comes into effect under very precise criteria, and not one you are likely to ever get. The nearest is when you have the car in neutral and try to rev it. The only time I have found this to be a problem was at an MSA Noise Check where revs are supposed to be held at a particular level. 

 

From reading some of the comments some of you are panicking unnecessarily and being a bit OTT.

 

When I looked into this a few years ago even a subsequent change of engine still didn't change the VED rate for a particular car. There was literally no system in place in for a UK registered car to ever have its official CO2 rating amended, no matter what modifications subsequent owners carried out. Therefore all this talk of VED rates changing on affected cars is nonsense.

[JoeFifty]

VED is currently based on CO2 not NOx, so it won't change.

A little off topic but just seen this (God help anyone buying after this comes in, don't get rid of your diesel yet!):

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Edited 23 September, 2015 by JoeFifty

[nick74]

VED is currently based on CO2 not NOx, so it won't change

 

 

Yes, I think some people are implying that anything that affects NOx in this test would also affect CO2 emissions in normal driving.....but really, why would it?

Equally there is no reason why it would have any effect on the smoke emissions test for a UK MOT either.

 

I can't see why any of this has any implications at all for owners in the UK!

Edited 23 September, 2015 by nick74

[skomaz]

You don't live in London and I suspect that you care so little for the lives of others that the needless deaths of 9,500 people a year isn't something that you can get too fussed about?

 

It appears however that Volkswagen and Investors are getting their knickers in a twist over this and I suspect that they have more a whole lot more inside knowledge and personal interest than you do.

 

Well done - you've jumped to an assumption about my knowledge based on my posted location...

 

However, just so you are aware, I may live in Sheffield but lead a transport planning team that is heavily involved in developments in London and, following a masters in Engineering, I have some 25 years of industry experience associated with major traffic and transport schemes and their assessment in terms of benefits and dis-benefits - including those related to environmental impacts and air quality.

 

Health and safety and the impact on peoples lives is, in fact, at the forefront of pretty much everything I get involved in, so deaths are a concern, but I do not take a knee jerk reaction to things like some on here have.

 

You quoted a Guardian article noting 9500 deaths but just looking at that there are a number of point within it that I would draw your attention to...   such as...

 

"Nearly 9,500 people die early each year in London due to long-term exposure to air pollution...   The premature deaths are due to two key pollutants, fine particulates known as PM2.5s and the toxic gas nitrogen dioxide (NO2)...   falls in particulates and a change in methodology that excludes natural sources of the pollutant sees that figure fall to 3,537 for 2010 levels of PM2.5s...    the report found that a larger proportion of deaths caused by PM2.5 were from particulates that originated outside the city...   most of the deaths linked to NO2 were because of NO2 emissions from diesel vehicles and other sources within the capital...   The gas is largely created by diesel cars, lorries and buses...   a King’s researcher published figures showing Oxford Street had the worst NO2 levels in the world, largely because of its high concentration of diesel buses...    the mayor is due to introduce an Ultra Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) in 2020 that will see the most polluting HGVs and coaches charged £100 to enter."

 

It strikes me that you've either not read the article or have conveniently forgotten it's content.

 

As an aside did you know that, historically air pollution from heavy rail was not even included in the emissions calculations? - you probably didn't but in London it will be a major contributor.

 

Now, think about the maths...   what is the proportion of VW group cars driving around London?  Then factor that proportion into the total quantum of CAR-based emissions.  Reduce that by the proportion of affected EA186 (or whatever) engines within the VW pool in London.  Then factor that down by the 'increase' that would result from not having the 'defeat device'  and compare what you have left to the TOTAL emissions from ALL SOURCES.

 

It will be a drop in the ocean.

 

You may argue that every little helps and it does - but take things in context and you will see where my comments come from.

[nick74]

I know someone personally who had the tax band of their car changed after they bought it. Renault (the manufacturer) pay the difference for them.

 

Isn't that perhaps a case of the car being mistakenly registered with the wrong CO2 rating when new, rather than a subsequent physical modification to the car as such?

Edited 23 September, 2015 by nick74

[skomaz]

I'm not particularly worried, more disappointed.

When someone you trust lies to you, that's what happens isn't it, you get disappointed in their behaviour, and are less likely to trust them in future?

 

Yes - I agree it's disappointing but, other than disappointment it has no real impact on you as a person and I'm afraid disappointment isn't compensatable (not that I'm implying that you were one of the ones looking for compensation as I haven't gone back through the whole thread to check...)

[FLAPPERJACK7]

Bun fight

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[Furbytom]

Sorry but saw these and just had to laugh :-)

[JoeFifty]

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[Aspman]

[FLAPPERJACK7]

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[FLAPPERJACK7]

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