Breaking VW Emissions Scandal -Mk I

[MoggyTech]

Oh Boy, just what were VW thinking? Just to clarify for anyone with an Octavia 3, the EA288 engine was used from 2013 and onwards, and I'm pretty sure that engine is not effected.

 

Where will this go, well now, its' an established fact that American lawyers love class action law suits. That's were the real cost will be, but however it plays out, it's going to cost VW a load of money and probably a large part of it's customer base jumping ship.

 

Still this information came to light quite some time ago, but it's only now getting headlines, as a study group were trying to find out, how VW could achieve such good emission controls, easy really, you cheat with software in the ECU.

 

The fix? Depends if the vehicle is already running AdBlue or not. One things for sure, if your car is recalled, when you get it back, it's going to be way down on power, and you will be using way more AdBlue than originally quoted.

 

I doubt the effect will be that great in Europe, but America will make the most of it, ironic when you consider, the average American car is about as eco friendly as a forty megaton nuclear airburst.

[JohnMcL7]

Interesting that Newsnight on BBC2 has shown that they showed in December 2014 how the cars could go into a different mode when being tested to run with less emissions.

 

That's what kicked this all off, a group had noticed that VW had unusual emissions results which led to the cars being tested both in the labs and on the road.  The test results confirmed the unusual results showing the cars were going far over the limit when outside the lab which they published in 2014.  The EPA then took notice and finally taken action now.

 

John

[lol-lol]

US Gov ie EPA information on this on their Notice of Violation.     Let us hope the UK has the same respect for our health as the US does.    http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/violations.htm#drive

 

 

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Can EPA require Volkswagen to recall these vehicles?  Yes. EPA has the authority under section 207 of the Clean Air Act to require a manufacturer to issue a recall when EPA determines that a substantial number of vehicles do not conform to EPA regulations.

Is EPA officially requiring Volkswagen to issue a recall now?   No. EPA expects to compel VW to issue a recall in the future to reduce the emissions impacts of these vehicles. Owners will be notified of that recall once Volkswagen and Audi have developed a remedial plan and EPA has approved the plan. Manufacturers are given a reasonable amount of time to develop a plan to complete the repairs, including both the repair procedure and manufacture of any needed parts. Depending on the complexity of the repair and the lead time needed to obtain the necessary components, it could take up to one year to identify corrective actions, develop a recall plan, and issue recall notices.

Will I be required to have my vehicle repaired once it is recalled?  That depends. Some states require proof that emissions recalls have been performed prior to issuing the vehicle registration. Even in states that do not have this requirement, it is important to have emissions recalls performed because without the repairs, your vehicle may be emitting harmful pollutants in excess of the federal emission standards. You are not responsible for repair costs related to an emissions recall.

I live in an area that requires periodic emissions tests. What happens if my car fails?  It is unlikely that the presence of this device will cause your vehicle to fail. In fact, the defeat device was specifically designed to ensure that vehicles would pass inspection. The defeat device has been installed in the affected VW diesels since 2009. To date, EPA has no indication of any pattern failures with these vehicles during inspection and maintenance emission tests

How much will this cost to fix?  Volkswagen will be required to implement corrective action at no cost to the owner.

Can I turn off the defeat device? No. The device is embedded in the software code that runs the engine control computer.

What pollutants are being emitted?  Vehicles emit an array of pollutants. EPA standards control the allowable emission levels of nitrogen oxides (NOx), hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, particulate matter, and certain toxic chemicals. The VW defeat device affects the way the NOx control system operates, resulting in higher NOx emission levels from these vehicles than from vehicles with properly operating emission controls.

How much more pollution is being emitted than should be? NOx emission levels are 10 – 40 times higher than emission standards.

Is this contributing to bad air quality in my city/area?  All vehicles emit some pollution that, along with emissions from other sources, affects local air quality. Vehicles with high emission levels have a disproportionate impact. EPA emission standards are designed to protect local air quality and maintain clean and healthy air. The VW diesels with the defeat device do not comply with EPA emission standards

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End of line.

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[Wile7]

Interesting 'hit' in Australia too...

http://bit.ly/1QxsWaX

Suddenly my 3.6 petrol doesn't seem so bad

APOLOGIES - the link only works from a Twitter feed but it is similar to the previous links. Naughty VW.

But who else is doing this to pretend that the Diesel engines are cleaner than they really are?

[FLAPPERJACK7]

If they have fiddled diesel nox emissions what else are they hiding. What defeat device's are they using on petrol model's.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Ryeman]

It seems from VW management's admission that practically every 4 cylinder CR diesel sold world wide (11million) is effected.

[Ryeman]

If they have fiddled diesel nox emissions what else are they hiding. What defeat device's are they using on petrol model's.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Not just petrol but manufacturers world wide is the next big question.....the clock's ticking.

[moley]

What would be really useful in the UK if just one of the engine types fitted with the 'cheat' software was emissions tested then tested with the 'cheat' removed, then we would know if the emission levels comply or not.

[Ryeman]

What would be really useful in the UK if just one of the engine types fitted with the 'cheat' software was emissions tested then tested with the 'cheat' removed, then we would know if the emission levels comply or not.

That question has been answered by VW's admission of the figure being 11Million vehicles world wide.....it every first world country.

[moley]

That question has been answered by VW's admission of the figure being 11Million vehicles world wide.....it every first world country.

So how far out are the emissions?

[lol-lol]

How DEFRA see the issue and potental fix ie Ultra Low Emission Zone for cities.   London in less than 5 years, other cities to follow. Working at Heathrow yesterday I am glad to get out of London to the cleaner air of Worcs.

 

https://consult.defra.gov.uk/airquality/draft-aq-plans/supporting_documents/Draft%20plans%20to%20improve%20air%20quality%20in%20the%20UK%20%20Overview%20document%20September%202015%20final%20version%20folder.pdf

 

2.1. Impact on health and the environment 7. Through improving air quality we can reduce both the short term and long term effects on people’s health. It will have benefits to those who may find their conditions are made worse through exposure to air pollution, for example people with heart or lung conditions or breathing problems. 8. The evidence associating NO2 with health effects has strengthened substantially in recent years as noted by the Committee on the Medical Effects of Air Pollutants (COMEAP) (see Box 1). It is estimated that the effects of NO2 on mortality are equivalent to 23,500 deaths annually in the UK2 . Many of the sources of NOx (NO2 and NO)3 are also sources of particulate matter (PM). The impact of exposure to particulate matter pollution (PM2.5) is estimated to have an effect on mortality equivalent to nearly 29,000 deaths in the UK4 . The combined impact of these two pollutants represents a significant public health challenge.

 

 

 

Central London from 7th Sept 2020 first zone but probably expanding year on year.

 

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone

Vehicle type ULEZ standards Will your vehicle meet the standards?

 

Motorcycle, moped and similar vehicles   Euro 3  A motorcycle manufactured since 1 July 2007 will meet the ULEZ standards. Car or small van (Petrol)

 

Euro 4 A petrol car or small van manufactured since 1 January 2006 will meet the ULEZ standards. Car or small van (Diesel)

 

Euro 6 If you currently have a diesel car or small van, it will not meet the ULEZ standards.  All cars and small vans manufactured from September 2015 will meet the standards.  A small number of vehicles manufactured up to a year earlier than September 2015 will meet the ULEZ standards.

[Breezy_Pete]

Can any UK (this type of) diesel owners pop up a scan of their last MOT emissions test?

What's measured?

[Huskoda]

If they have fiddled diesel nox emissions what else are they hiding. What defeat device's are they using on petrol model's.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 This has been raised too: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11883357/vw-scandal-petrol-car-risk.html Though it just looks like pure speculation at this point.

[gadgetman]

The point is that maybe useage is minimal because the car is programmed to only use it in very few situations, one of which being when it 'senses' that it's being tested.

If it is subsequently forced to be used continuously to comply with the regulations that it's software previously allowed it to only selectively acknowledge, maybe you'll need a tanker of it in your drive.

Only surmising.l

The scr system is in constant use.

10L lasts on average 16000 miles in my works VW.

[Ootohere]

This is from the company that when you have a fault and call out Skoda Assist / VW Assist / AA / RAC etc

You are driving & maybe an 'Exhaust Management Control' or EPC Light, maybe both, maybe the car goes into Limp Mode. Get you Home.

 

The operative Scans VIA the OBD Port, maybe gets 'Misfire Cylinder 1'   Low Boost Pressure , Low Fuel Pressure codes.

 

Swaps an Ignition Coil,

never checks the Spark Plug, and follows you to a Dealership or sends you on your way.

 

Then the Skoda / VW / Seat / Audi Factory Trained Technicians can not find a Fault Code, 

can not find a Fault, and can not on the Workplace Computer find the TPI / 'Service Campaign Information that is there to be read.

 

Cars EGR failure, pulling to the Left (in the UK, blame Dunlop / Continental / Bridestone) , DSG's with Failing Mechatronic Control Units, Clutch Packs,  and the Wrong Oil, Synthetic in at the factory,

needs changed to Mineral !!

Faulty Track Rod Ends (Wrong Grease),  Faulty Steering Racks (Wrong Manufacturer) , Wrong Pistons, Wrong Rings etc etc.

 

'Simply Clever'  'Das Auto',  

 If VW are so good with Software,  then why are they so crap on a Daily basis.

 

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

[jlwah]

I saw on the news last night that the institute that had carried out the tests and found the issue on 4 cylinder VAG cars also tested a BMW, but it was ok. All they tested was a 3.0d X5, surely they should have been checking 320d's, X3 2.0d's & 1 series, etc., assuming BMW sell them over there?

[giandougl]

I do believe that each manufacturer will cut every corner possible to sell their wares.

As the saying goes 'Let him without sin, cast the first stone'..

 

No mention of the commercial vehicles using vast amounts of diesel fumes out through the their exhaust pipes.!!

 

The diesel engine no-matter what they do to it, is a very smelly and dirty air polluting fuel..says me driving a 10 year Fabia VRS diesel..LOL

[Breezy_Pete]

With EGR still?

[Ootohere]

Another oddity.

 

If you have ever bought a new VW / Skoda / Seat / Audi, 

and asked the Salesperson if they could, change the Remote Control to 'one touch', or your Speedo to 'Australian' or what ever,

they ask the Technician,  You just want something activated on a vehicle you bought, paid for and own all the Functions there in.

& No comes the Reply, or that will be £50 thank you,

 

VW / Skoda / Audi / Seat Dealership Workshop Technicians often can not successfully change a Service Indicator from 

Variable to Fixed, or Reset the Indicator when they service the car.

 

Volkswagen need to Retrain Technicians as well as Management.

 

Imagine if your car has to go in now for 'World Wide Recalls'.

Maybe ask if they can put a Fully Trained and Qualified Person to work on it.   Or just leave as things are!!

 

Vorsprung Durch Technik.  Honesty in Engineering, Advancement through technology,

or just let sleeping dogs lie.

[Breezy_Pete]

George; relevance to emissions cheating?

[Dr Zoidberg]

George; relevance to emissions cheating?

 

I think he's on auto-post mode.

[Sad555]

I wonder if the poor customers who have had to pay for replacement parts like DPF ,egr,etc etc will be able to claim or have a case to claim the costs back because of the way the engine was running with the dodgy software fitted by VAG that may have contributed to their problems?

[Ootohere]

Relevance to Emission Cheating.

 

They have the Skills and Technical Knowledge to Design & Produce Software that can Switch ECU's into Most Efficient Emissions Control when undergoing testing in the USA when the OBD Port is used and the Safety Features are Inhibited and it reads Steering Sensors etc.

As the story goes.

 

Yet with all the Computing Power, 

the Same ECU in 11 Million Cars can not often Diagnose a Fault,

or tell an Audi / VW Driver that a Bulb is out, or which one.

 

So the relevance is the Volkswagens current boss, the Engineers Engineer made the decision that using the 

Technology to cheat a Smog Test in North America with 500,000 Diesel Cars was more important than 

using that system to have more reliable and good running cars, and save customers money in Diagnosing Faults,

and have a decent Diagnostic System with the Computing Power already on the vehicle.

(they know a ECU was Remapped or Changes made, they refuse Warranty Claims, yet the Remaps can be 

providing more efficient performance and emissions than their Factory settings for Daily Running, 

but are not 'Factory Approved',  ABT-Sportsline can sell Tuning Boxes in Germany and other Countries and

Warranty them when Fitting to new cars.)

http://abt-sportsline.de/en

* I take it ABT knew all about just what was possible with VWG ECU's and the Defeat Device'.

 

It will be interesting to see what Information gathering / Harvesting VW have done from Investigating ECU's.

We know they can check how often Launch Control is Used, and all different kinds of Counts,

So they might have been Data Gathering in World Regions where that is going to be an issue.

 

We know that Dealerships in the UK have taken Sat Nav / Radio Information,

well the Parent Company might have as well, to 'Gain World Domination' as the Biggest Passenger car manufacturer.

(Tin Foil Helmet Time.)

[picnmix]

With NOx emission levels that are apparently 10 – 40 times higher than US emission standards and the EPA requiring VW to "develop a plan to complete the repairs, including both the repair procedure and manufacture of any needed parts" to meet the standard for cars already on the road in the US.  It sounds like a massive engineering challenge not a simple tweak to the engine management system to me and it's likely the changes would adversely effect performance such that owners would not then want their modified car. Looks to me that VW will have to buy the effected vehicles at their market value prior to this and perhaps then scrap them. 

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

@Wino

the UK based diesel emissions test only measures smoke opacity, no specific gases are monitored during the session on the smoke meter.