Multiple threads merged.  This will be main topic going forward.

Multiple threads merged again.  This will be main topic going forward.

FTFY

 

Thanks for taking the time and effort to tidy up all of the threads.  I am sure I won't be the only one to appreciate it.

List of EA189 engine shamelessly stolen from another forum, may not be correct...

 

1.6 TDI CR GreenLine 77 kW 2010–2015 CAYC (EA189) 1598 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 77 kW (105 PS; 103 hp)

1.6 TDI CR 77 kW 2013–2015 CAYC (EA189) 1598 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 77 kW (105 PS; 103 hp)

2.0 TDI CR 81 kW 2009–2015 CFHA (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 81 kW (110 PS; 107 hp)

2.0 TDI CR 81 kW 2009–2015 CFHF (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 81 kW (110 PS; 107 hp)

2.0 TDI CR 103 kW 2011– CFHC (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 103 kW (140 PS; 138 hp)

2.0 TDI CR 103 kW 2009– CFHC (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 103 kW (140 PS; 138 hp)

2.0 TDI CR 103 kW 2010– CFHC (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 103 kW (140 PS; 138 hp)

2.0 TDI CR 125 kW 2010–2015 CFJA (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 125 kW (170 PS; 168 hp)

2.0 TDI CR 125 kW 2013–2015 CFJA (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 125 kW (170 PS; 168 hp)

FTFY

 

Thanks for taking the time and effort to tidy up all of the threads.  I am sure I won't be the only one to appreciate it.

 

It's just loads of ticking boxes and clicking merge.  Might be some others hovering around somewhere that weren't in first page of results for new content.

Guessing no one is going to jail.... golden handshakes and slip off to extradition free Costa Rica/Switzerland wherever...

Well i guess the MPG figures are lies too then

 

I suppose all manufactures could be sued for misleading MPG figures... these are all done in ideal test situations, no wind resistance, set speeds over a set test distance on a rolling road etc etc all manufactures as far as I know test to this... "to give you a comparison between all vehicles" ... I suppose it is the same thing... in the real world you very rarely get what they say... 

 

I find it very interesting to note that not one of VW competitors have taken the huge opportunity to decry their dishonest and underhand methods to fraudulently mislead all their customers..... Can't understand that at all....

 

They all know what is coming.... I suspect they will test a lot more... 

 

Anyone know whether Skodas are affected by the false emissions stats? In particular Skoda Superb Greenline III.

 

Remember this is initially for US based cars which have much stricter emission laws than we do... lets wait and see what develops, the press have got there teeth in this and love to terrify the public and "set in panic" .. 

 

 

List of EA189 engine shamelessly stolen from another forum, may not be correct...

 

1.6 TDI CR GreenLine 77 kW 2010–2015 CAYC (EA189) 1598 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 77 kW (105 PS; 103 hp)

1.6 TDI CR 77 kW 2013–2015 CAYC (EA189) 1598 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 77 kW (105 PS; 103 hp)

2.0 TDI CR 81 kW 2009–2015 CFHA (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 81 kW (110 PS; 107 hp)

2.0 TDI CR 81 kW 2009–2015 CFHF (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 81 kW (110 PS; 107 hp)

2.0 TDI CR 103 kW 2011– CFHC (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 103 kW (140 PS; 138 hp)

2.0 TDI CR 103 kW 2009– CFHC (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 103 kW (140 PS; 138 hp)

2.0 TDI CR 103 kW 2010– CFHC (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 103 kW (140 PS; 138 hp)

2.0 TDI CR 125 kW 2010–2015 CFJA (EA189)) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 125 kW (170 PS; 168 hp)

2.0 TDI CR 125 kW 2013–2015 CFJA (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 125 kW (170 PS; 168 hp)

 

 

If that is correct then my CFGB is not an EA189 engine, or a EA288 V6 .. 

So what are they going to do.put every ones car tax up

USA market protectionism at its best I'd reckon, plus the chance to grab some more much needed money - all that fighting abroad costs a bit especially when they are fighting in areas where they don't always have a chance of using that fighting to do "battle testing" and selling their kit!

 

Land of the free ?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that VAG would not do that, but American companies are full of that "get around" logic.

 

I completely agree.  VW clearly shouldn't done it but the potential penalties being discussed - more than $18bn or $37,500 per car are just extortionate.  Before this, there was all ready discussion that US regulators' fines international firms are much, much more than on US companies.  It's been the case with Barclays, HSBC, GSK and BP in the recent past, all have been hit with massively disproportionate penalties. The US appear to view foreign companies as piñatas they can easily bash for as much cash as they feel they need. 

I completely agree.  VW clearly shouldn't done it but the potential penalties being discussed - more than $18bn or $37,500 per car are just extortionate.  Before this, there was all ready discussion that US regulators' fines international firms are much, much more than on US companies.  It's been the case with Barclays, HSBC, GSK and BP in the recent past, all have been hit with massively disproportionate penalties. The US appear to view foreign companies as piñatas they can easily bash for as much cash as they feel they need. 

and I think they've just finished milking BP -on to the next,    while the (ex vicepresident's?) (subcontractors) got a slap on the wrist 

I know Wikipedia can't be taken for gospel but this article does make worrying reading for some of us with 1.6 or 2.0 cr TDi engines, it claims the type EA189 engine that is at the centre of the probe is the one fitted to the Superb CR type engine! And yes I have a 2.0cr 170 TDi

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_Superb

Edited 22 September, 201510 yr by yesman

I find it very interesting to note that not one of VW competitors have taken the huge opportunity to decry their dishonest and underhand methods to fraudulently mislead all their customers..... Can't understand that at all....

House of cards with VW falling first. Emissions testing rules / regulations are no different to those in say F1 - you analyse and exploit in order to achieve technical advantage over your competitors. Loop holes are then closed and other methods of exploiting have to be found.

The majority of engine manufacturers all use a small number of suppliers for ECUs, injectors, common rail systems, sensors (ie. Bosch, Lucas et al) and these emission systems are designed in conjunction with them, hence I doubt VW will be the only manufacturer in hot water.

Whilst not ordinarily a conspiracy theorist it smarts of US looking after its own... First Toyota after it overtook GM as largest vehicle producer and now VW after it was in #1 spot.

Edited 22 September, 201510 yr by Black_Sheep

Whilst not ordinarily a conspiracy theorist it smarts of US looking after its own... First Toyota after it overtook GM as largest vehicle producer and now VW after it was in #1 spot.

 

You may have hit the nail on the head there... 

Seems to be all about NOx not CO2. Murica don't care about CO2, CO2 is a wholesome Jesus lovin' gas.

 

NOx is commie gas, so kill that sucka!

What with the news of VW trying to murder us in our sleep and the killer cows filling the air with methane, we are all doomed I tell you, doomed!

I think it's just the engines with Adblue and SCR systems. I wouldn't worry

Quite the opposite its the older engines (pre adblue) that are effected:

105

110

140

170

The new 2015 engines (110 & 150) are OK

This article suggests it includes both Adblue and non-Adblue engines;

 

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/214605-vw-caught-cheating-on-diesel-emmissions-standards-ordered-to-recall-500000-cars

 

Jim

The government fines will just be the start. Presumeably VAG are also open to thousands of actions from owners claiming the car has been mis-sold.

I think we all need to wait and see what happens... at the moment it is US cars which have stricter emissions than the UK, but it MAY effect cars worldwide... it does say MAY effect... 

 

The press love to blow everything up, that is was sells newspapers and gets the reactions they want... I am sure that VW or anyone else would not be stupid enough to risk $18 billion dollars.

 

1. The way I read it they tested a couple of cars or so out of how many million on the road?

2.  How do you know that the cars they tested were perfect and had no issues and cause the problem?  

3. Did they get software engineers to find the alledged issue?

4. Why would VW launch an external investigation into this matter if they new about it? 

 

Yes, I am concerned, but why panic until all the facts come out in the open it all seems strange to me..

 

Cars included http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11881670/Volkswagen-emissions-scandal-is-my-car-affected.html

 

• 2009 VW Jetta, VW Jetta Sportswagen – test groups 9VWXV02.035N/9VWXV02.0U5N

• 2010 VW Jetta, VW Jetta Sportswagen, VW Golf, Audi A3 – test group AVWXV02.OU5N

• 2011 VW Jetta, VW Jetta Sportswagen, VW Golf, Audi A3 – test group BVWXV02OU5N

• 2012 VW Jetta, VW Jetta Sportswagen, VW Golf, Audi A3, VW Beetle, VW Beetle Convertible – test group CVWXV02OU5N

• 2012 – VW Passat – test group CVWXV02OU4S

• 2013 - VW Jetta, VW Jetta Sportswagen, VW Golf, Audi A3, VW Beetle, VW Beetle Convertible – test group CVWXV02OU5N

• 2013 – VW Passat – test group DVWXV02OU4S

• 2014 - VW Jetta, VW Jetta Sportswagen, VW Golf, Audi A3, VW Beetle, VW Beetle Convertible – test group DVWXV02OU5N

• 2014 - VW Passat – test group EVWXV02OU4S

• 2015 VW Jetta, VW Jetta Sportswagen, VW Golf, Audi A3, VW Beetle, VW Beetle Convertible, VW Passat – test group FVGAV02.0VAL

Seems to be all about NOx not CO2. Murica don't care about CO2, CO2 is a wholesome Jesus lovin' gas.

NOx is commie gas, so kill that sucka!

Some of the UK media seem to be implying that it affects the CO2 rating of European spec cars too, but that appears to be a misunderstanding on their part. Their is no reason why a software tweak to get round a specific US NOx test would necessarily have any bearing on the official EU CO2 emissions figure. It *may* do, but probably won't IMHO.

Edited 22 September, 201510 yr by nick74

from a reliable source earlier today some bits of info were mentioned regarding this matter. now I can't be too specific but they were along the lines of

potentially 11 million + units affected

18bn set to one side for rectification

1.2, 1.6 and 2.0 cr engines in European vehicles fitted between 2011 - 2014

The possibility of adblue and or SCR systems retro fitted the those vehicles affected along with suited software

The main issue is with the NOx outputs.

They are well on their way to finding a solution, what that solution is at the moment is under wraps.

Doomed,doomed,we're all doomed

These make interesting reading http://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/car-emissions-testing-in-the-uk/

 

It seems that VW in the US test there own vehicles and submit the results, and if they decide an extra test is needed they do so,  but the UK have to have a government-appointed independent witness So maybe it is easier for manufactures in the US to twist the figures

 

Who carries out the test?

The test is carried out in a government-approved test facility, with a government-appointed independent witness (see below).

Who governs the test?

The EU test operates in strict conditions and is witnessed by a government-appointed independent approval agency. In the UK, this is the Vehicle Certification Agency, which is responsible to the Department for Transport.

 

What is the difference between the EU test and the US test?

In the US, the official tests are carried out by the manufacturer and not witnessed by an independent third-party as they are in the EU. The results are submitted to the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), which decides whether to accept them or test the vehicle itself.

The emissions limits set in the US tests are different from those in the EU. The conditions of the test in the US – in other words, the driving cycle – are also different to those in the EU.

Yes, I am concerned, but why panic until all the facts come out in the open it all seems strange to me..

 

 

 

I think all of us air breather want to get the diirty cars out of our cities as quickly as possible.

 

So stop selling them in the UK/EU until we actually know how bad this cars are, they appear to be ten times worse than petrol cars on the Key NO emissions.

 

We know the solution is to fit them with SCR/ AD Blue systems so that what should happen.

 

If people have ordered TDIs then they should be offered TSIs with compensation by VW for the fuel difference.  

 

Tax difference is not always that bad as diesel get a 3% loading for company car and fuel BIK.  

 

VW-Audi already have the SCR technology and it would only cost a few hundred Euros and save thousands of live by reducing the early deaths by NO poisoning reckoned to run to hundreds of thousands across the EU alone per year.

 

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/diesel/adblue

Pretty rich for the Yanks to come up with emission regs when they would rather drive 7ltrs of V8 muscle than any diesel anyway, and their homegrown diesels all seem to smoke like Thomas the tank engine

 

Is this a repeat of the "You cant fly Concorde to the states cos its too noisy (and besides, our SST jet is rubbish)"

Listened to quite a few radio interviews and read several online articles over the last few days, a lot of scaremongering going on.

 

Be honest would any of this really stop you from buying another VAG product?

 

If my 2011 (CFFB) 2.0 CR140 Superb does end up being affected I won't be responding to any potential recall or service campaign letters.

 

VAG will be hit hard, they are the scapegoat. A lot of other manufacturers will be readying their PR teams in preparation for their turn in the spotlight.

 

Apologise, pay the fines, don't issue any recalls and use this as the prompt to properly overhaul the way emissions and fuel economy are tested once and for all.