Breaking VW Emissions Scandal -Mk I

[JohnMcL7]

47 mins ago...

"Volkswagen has imposed a hiring freeze at its financing business and cut a shift at a German engine factory as it braces for a hit to business from cheating in diesel emissions tests."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/30/us-volkswagen-emissions-idUSKCN0RU15H20150930

Why VW had to shut down (shift) factory where they are making Euro6 engines?

 

As it mentions, they're expecting a drop in demand due to the damage to the brand which seems a reasonable step.

 

John

[67igor1]

They will need these engines... soon...

[MoggyTech]

We know what VW are saying now, something will be happening once we see what we get away with, just hold on.

 

So what is the UK Governments line on this now, 

are they cool with it all, no safety issues so leave it to Volkswagen to sort it out?

 

Any UK Minister for Transport made Statements,  Home Office, Trading Standards or anything recently.

I can not google just now.....

It will get swept under the EU carpet to avoid the story panning back to political sources. I'm pretty sure VW know that they cannot implement a fix that turns the cars into fuel guzzling low power tractors. I'm also pretty sure economic factors will prevent VW from going under. 

 

Various bodies have said new testing standards are needed, so given the speed of the EU, maybe by 2017, by which time, health issues aside, will be meaningless, as all cars in the UK will be paying a fixed £140 VED anyway.

 

So basically, someone opened a can of worms, but said worms from the first can have tin openers, and are busy open yet more cans of worms. No doubt a bunch of lawyers will try a test case, which will be fed through the various stages.

 

In the very end though, it is the tax payer who will be picking up the tab on the aftermath of this one.

[StuartAB]

IF (and I recognise it's a BIG if), it turns out that the modification impacts negatively on performance or mpg, while Skoda can say that warranty claims won't  be honoured on un-modified cars, won't people like myself with older cars just not get the modification done?

 

Stuart

[67igor1]

No doubt a bunch of lawyers will try a test case, which will be fed through the various stages.

"Leigh Day, the law firm, said it had written to the new chief executive of VW, Matthias Müller, to ask that it refund UK consumers the premium they paid for their “clean” diesel cars, as well as compensation for other losses.

The letter said the fitting of defeat devices in VW vehicles “undoubtedly amounts to a misrepresentation and a breach of contract” and demanded a meeting with the company’s bosses.

Leigh Day said it was investigating legal claims on behalf of hundreds of vehicle owners and companies with fleets of cars."

[Llanigraham]

any one know what engines are affected on the skoda range?

 

 

AARRGGHH!!!!!

 

There have been at least half a dozen links given to the list.

[JohnMcL7]

180 milligrams per km (for diesels) according to the AA.

 

I'm wondering what that actually means in practice though as I'm struggling to find Nox emissions for any cars although the search results are dominated by articles on the current VW scandal.

 

John

[JohnMcL7]

They will need these engines... soon...

 

I guess it depends on how far ahead they build the engines, the implication is quite a long way if they're already cutting down shifts.

 

John

[67igor1]

How tight are the Nox limits for EU5 cars?

         

Euro standard      Date                         CO      NOx     PM

Euro 5                  September 2009      0.5      0.180    0.005

Euro 6                  September 2014      0.5      0.08      0.005

Edited 30 September, 2015 by 67igor1

[langers2k]

I'm wondering what that actually means in practice though as I'm struggling to find Nox emissions for any cars although the search results are dominated by articles on the current VW scandal.

 

John

 

Not too sure what you want to know, there will be a test with a certain driving patten (in a lab) and the NOx will be measured and converted to mg/km. To gain EU5 certification that figure needs to be less than 180mg/km when using diesel.

 

It should also mean that in real world driving the car is suppose to emit less than 180mg of NOx for each km travelled, depending exactly what the traffic conditions are.

[camelspyyder]

Weirder still is the car was built by a right hand drive manufacturer.

 

Well you (I mean I) learn something every day.

 

I did not know they drove on the left in India or Thailand but they both do.

Edited 30 September, 2015 by camelspyyder

[JohnMcL7]

Not too sure what you want to know, there will be a test with a certain driving patten (in a lab) and the NOx will be measured and converted to mg/km. To gain EU5 certification that figure needs to be less than 180mg/km when using diesel.

 

It should also mean that in real world driving the car is suppose to emit less than 180mg of NOx for each km travelled, depending exactly what the traffic conditions are.

 

I'm wondering what would be a typical output for an EU5 diesel engine or even an older pre-2009 EU4 diesel engine as I'm assuming the affected VW engines would be within the Nox limit without cheating the test unlike in the US where the Nox limit is much tighter and needs a urea/adblue solution that wouldn't be needed here.

 

There seems to be plenty of data on CO2 emissions but I'm drawing a blank on Nox emissions, I'd read some articles about EU6 cars mostly failing to be within the Nox limit in real world driving but can't remember anything similar for EU5.  The reason I'm wondering is that I can't see it being as big a deal here as in the US (unless the CO2 figures are also a long way out but they seem to be anyway under current testing systems) where the cars have to be operating under a much tighter limits therefore I can see owners being forced to have their cars updated which means taking a noticeable hit in performance and possibly other areas.

 

John

Edited 30 September, 2015 by JohnMcL7

[noiseboy]

AARRGGHH!!!!!

 

There have been at least half a dozen links given to the list.

 

Believe me, it's not been obvious to me checking in every day for the past week or more.  If the info is now known - which is seems to be - can this not be placed in a clearly named sticky in each relevant forum?  It's kinda nuts we have to trawl through a 38 page sprawling thread in "general chit-chat" when clearly its highly relevant to people's own Skodas.  Not sure that "general chit-chat" quite covers it.

 

It seems to be this one type of engine, EUR 5 right?  It's not clear at all to me what models, and what cars, that represents, and yet this information must be known.  Grateful for some clarity, and thanks to anyone who can provide it here while Skoda themselves stay quiet.

Edited 30 September, 2015 by noiseboy

[Coops]

But it's ok to have 42 different threads open discussing the same point?

[JohnMcL7]

Believe me, it's not been obvious to me checking in every day for the past week or more.  If the info is now known - which is seems to be - can this not be placed in a clearly named sticky in each relevant forum?  It's kinda nuts we have to trawl through a 38 page sprawling thread in "general chit-chat" when clearly its highly relevant to people's own Skodas.  Not sure that "general chit-chat" quite covers it.

 

It seems to be this one type of engine, EUR 5 right?  It's not clear at all to me what models, and what cars, that represents, and yet this information must be known.  Grateful for some clarity, and thanks to anyone who can provide it here while Skoda themselves stay quiet.

 

I think this is the list here:

 

http://www.autoforum.cz/zivot-ridice/vw-tdi-ea-189-mate-v-aute-motor-co-lze-skody-jsou-jich-plne/obrazek/2

 

I've no idea what cars that maps to though, I assumed there would be a table somewhere showing what engine codes different models could come with as I've a couple of friends wondering if their cars are affected but not found anything like that so far.  I agree having a sticky controller by the moderators just with known information so far like the above list would be useful.

 

John

Edited 30 September, 2015 by JohnMcL7

[cmcm789]

I think this is the list here:

 

http://www.autoforum.cz/zivot-ridice/vw-tdi-ea-189-mate-v-aute-motor-co-lze-skody-jsou-jich-plne/obrazek/2

 

I've no idea what cars that maps to though, I assumed there would be a table somewhere showing what engine codes different models could come with as I've a couple of friends wondering if their cars are affected but not found anything like that so far.  I agree having a sticky controller by the moderators just with known information so far like the above list would be useful.

 

John

The engine code on my Tax book is CAY869663. I don't see a CAYA, CAYB or CAYC anywhere. Am I in the clear??

 

It's all very confusing.

[Breezy_Pete]

Scroll up the page to my post at 16:25.

(That was aimed at JohnMcL)

[BJM]

The engine code on my Tax book is CAY869663. I don't see a CAYA, CAYB or CAYC anywhere. Am I in the clear??

 

It's all very confusing.

 

2nd, 3rd and 4th row on the list.

[langers2k]

I'm wondering what would be a typical output for an EU5 diesel engine or even an older pre-2009 EU4 diesel engine as I'm assuming the affected VW engines would be within the Nox limit without cheating the test unlike in the US where the Nox limit is much tighter and needs a urea/adblue solution that wouldn't be needed here.

 

There seems to be plenty of data on CO2 emissions but I'm drawing a blank on Nox emissions, I'd read some articles about EU6 cars mostly failing to be within the Nox limit in real world driving but can't remember anything similar for EU5.  The reason I'm wondering is that I can't see it being as big a deal here as in the US (unless the CO2 figures are also a long way out but they seem to be anyway under current testing systems) where the cars have to be operating under a much tighter limits therefore I can see owners being forced to have their cars updated which means taking a noticeable hit in performance and possibly other areas.

 

I very much doubt anyone has enough data to give a typical output across different manufacturers. I did find this pdf that at least shows for the small set of EU4 and EU5 diesels they tested, NOx was much higher than the limit for that car: http://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/docs/2011_pems_jrc_62639_en.pdf

 

I wouldn't like to speculate as to what the 'fix' is going to be at the moment. It'll be a lovely surprise in a few weeks

[Redline Greenline ii]

oh look - a no win / no fee offer from a legal company regarding potential claims... what a surprise!

As I said earlier - the only winners from this will be the lawyers - I hate em!

It does help you understand what your rights might be, though. I suspect VW will offer settlements to avoid individual or class action. This gives you some insight into what lawyers are thinking might be possible.

[Dr Zoidberg]

AARRGGHH!!!!!

 

There have been at least half a dozen links given to the list.

 

This is why I suggested editing the first post with a list of facts as they become known.

Perhaps a separate thread for facts and keep this one for discussions?

[StuartTunstall]

Stick your VIN in the recall checker that was posted earlier... I think you will find All EU5 cars have a recall Inc mine... maybe just an over reaction and they are checking them all...

Will have to see what happens now.. hopefully we have a dormant version of the software in the UK. .. so it will be removed an that's all...

I tested with a few 2013 to 2015 Superb all included Inc a couple of Fabia

I have already contacted the dealer to say that I will give them 100% support and the opportunity to put it right but if it has any effect on the car performance, MPG etc etc I will be going further...I. e the only solution if it is not to my 100% satisfaction is they (Skoda) buy a 14 month old car for what it cost me, just over £32k and I pay the extra for a new Superb 3 of equivalent spec

I suspect it will not come to that, i cannot see any solution upsetting the customer. ..

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[cmcm789]

Scroll up the page to my post at 16:25.

(That was aimed at JohnMcL)

Wino, sorry I should have asked that a different way. I looked up your list first and then my Engine No. What I actually meant was that as my engine number on the reg document doesn't have an A,B or C after the CAY does that mean it's not affected. But I googled it and it seems most likely it is one of these codes and therefore needs a fix.

[langers2k]

Stick your VIN in the recall checker that was posted earlier... I think you will find All EU5 cars have a recall Inc mine...

 

Cool, my VIN was clear earlier but now shows up as having a recall available. Any one contacted their 'preferred service partner' yet, just curious what they have to say

[Breezy_Pete]

@ cmcm

Look on your car data sticker in the service book, or on boot floor; you may find a four letter engine code.

Or use the VIN checker link being discussed now.