Error service: leave vehicle only when selector in position p

[Matthew48]

From that posting also I have been preparing myself for a ramp up of the message appearing and then to fork out a grand for a new gear shift assembly. But months on, the message frequency hasn't gone up and at times disappears for weeks. I wonder how it is that it can be as random as that. Surely, there's a problem or not and not a problem only to have occasionally!

[NikTheGeek]

12 hours ago, Matthew48 said:

Not sure either is morally better than the other!

 

Trade it in to a Skoda dealer. That is perfectly morally acceptable since it is their design fault!

[true247spartan]

On 04/07/2019 at 12:44, Sergiu1983 said:

Hello,

 

So you have any news with the issue?  I had the error message again today and i went directly to the dealer for check and they found the fault error and booked me in the date of 16 for 2 hours test.And i told them what if fault dissapear until then and they said that they can't do anything else ... that is the only free space.I called skoda and they told me to wait until the date of 16 to make the test again and if nothing will show to call them and go to a big skoda dealer for some extra verification. This is what happened today regarding this error again!. 

 

So until now i had the error message 3 times and i lost one day and a half and still nothing. I will wait the date of 16 to see what happens

 

Well for the last 3 weeks Skoda keep calling me and sending me SMS saying the same thing. 

“Dear Mr .......

I apologise I have not been able to speak to you today. To update you, I am awaiting a response from the dealership. I will endeavour to contact you in the next 48 working hours. I apologise for any inconvenience caused. 

Kind Regards 

Shama Iqbal 
Customer Relations Manager“

It seems that the dealership is not interested even getting back to Skoda never mind myself!!!!

 

 

[wjpluk]

7 minutes ago, true247spartan said:

Well for the last 3 weeks Skoda keep calling me and sending me SMS saying the same thing. 

“Dear Mr .......

I apologise I have not been able to speak to you today. To update you, I am awaiting a response from the dealership. I will endeavour to contact you in the next 48 working hours. I apologise for any inconvenience caused. 

Kind Regards 

Shama Iqbal 
Customer Relations Manager“

It seems that the dealership is not interested even getting back to Skoda never mind myself!!!!

 

 

I’m surprised that some dealers are making it difficult to make a claim. I didn’t have any problems with mine. It is replaced under VAG warranty . All they need to do is to contact head office in Germany to approve it. I have confirm with my dealer that it is health and safety issue as the message was randomly popping up even when cruising on the motorway. My dealer contacted VAG head office on the basis of health and safety issue.

[MoggyTech]

I got this error today, but I'm trading in the Octavia, as I am sick to the back teeth of how VAG are treating customers. 

How it can take them two years from the first Technical Service Bulletin about this issue, to come up with a revised part in late 2019 is beyond me.

 

The TSB even states "This is a tech tip, not a technical bulletin as titled." "Tech tips are not associated with warranty claims."

Translation "Yes, it's a well known issue but for Gods sake don't tell the customer that."

 

Even if we accept it's a technical tip only, it means they know about the issue, and to say they don't is a simple lie.

To those who have had the gear selector replaced, only to get the fault again soon after, it could simply be chaffed or pinched wires leading to the steering column.

 

If it is the selector that's at fault, it's a 10 pence switch but it can't be replaced as the selector is a modular part, so £700 + 5 hours labour thank you. 

[benterrier]

It would be nice to have a look at one of these failed modular units. Surely the bill to replace it entitles the customer to examine or view the failure.

Does the Briskoda forum membership have any VAG technicians that can throw further light on this subject. 

[dunc69]

On 11/07/2019 at 17:44, OldBoyScout said:

Dunc69, it appears from the dates on your postings that you lived with this problem for several months before you were able to get it fixed. You said "

This is a recurring error which slowly appears more regularly until you need to change the gearshift assembly." How bad did it get on your car before it was fixed, and over what period of time, if you don't mind me asking? I note that you threatened to keep coming back until they fixed it. I doubt that this approach would work for me, as I don't have any warranty left, and they would want to charge me for each repeat visit.

I had it for a few months.  It slowly became more regular, until the point I had the error most journeys. One day it popped up several times.  

 

If I recall correctly, my research on a GTI forum told me that several others with the 6-speed wet DSG mated to the 2 litre petrol turbo also suffered an increased intensification of the error over time. 

 

In terms of my approach, yes being in warranty (used approved) helped, but it wasn’t a threat to keep coming back as such, more the convincing of them that I had the error at all, as no errors were seen in their scan - i.e. “why have I bothered to come here at all and do all this online research (I showed them a Briskoda thread and a GTI thread) if I don’t have a problem with my car?” 

 

As an aside, the chrome on the new replacement lever quickly delaminated at the top, eventually cutting my wife’s palm, so I had the car’s third lever / assembly fitted a year or so later.  

 

Luckily, haven’t seen the error since on either new assembly.  

[MoggyTech]

1 hour ago, benterrier said:

It would be nice to have a look at one of these failed modular units. Surely the bill to replace it entitles the customer to examine or view the failure.

Does the Briskoda forum membership have any VAG technicians that can throw further light on this subject. 

The failure is due to what VW call silicate build up in the micro-switch for the park position. So basically corrosion, that causes a resistance that confuses the mechatronics unit and or ECU.

The ECU will be expecting either a fully open or dead short from the switch depending on the gear selector position. i'm not sure if the switch signal path goes through the can-bus, but in any case, any deviation from the expected voltage (switch position dependant)

will confuse the control modules, thus causing the error. 

 

I used to see this kind of fault when I serviced video recorders, that used a mode select switch to determine the position of the mechanical parts (play, stop, record, fast forward etc.)

Of course the switch could be got at and replaced, unlike all this modular nonsense crammed into cars these days.

[Jason_M]

If, and I say if, I still own the Fabia once warranty runs out, I will do my best to try to figure out a more permanent solution. 

 

Ive been discussing the issue with a few friends that are fairly good with mechanical stuff, 

And we all feel fairly confident that it “should” be possible to get at the switch mechanism and replace just the switch itself. 

Not the entire shifter. 

 

While it’s under warranty, I’ll not be touching anything. They can replace it as many times as required. 

 

Jason. 

 

[benterrier]

Pity some independent hasn't come up with a fix to the replacement of this switch and offered the motorist whose cars are out of warranty a cheaper fix. 

[MattKing]

1 hour ago, MoggyTech said:

The failure is due to what VW call silicate build up in the micro-switch for the park position. So basically corrosion, that causes a resistance that confuses the mechatronics unit and or ECU.

The ECU will be expecting either a fully open or dead short from the switch depending on the gear selector position. i'm not sure if the switch signal path goes through the can-bus, but in any case, any deviation from the expected voltage (switch position dependant)

will confuse the control modules, thus causing the error. 

 

I used to see this kind of fault when I serviced video recorders, that used a mode select switch to determine the position of the mechanical parts (play, stop, record, fast forward etc.)

Of course the switch could be got at and replaced, unlike all this modular nonsense crammed into cars these days.

If this indeed the failure mode its common with microswitches. I'm an engineer who works with sensors that use microswitches. One fix that will stop the problem for a while is to put a much higher voltage through and operate the switch. This burns the contaminated off the contacts. It is sometimes permanent but normally returns. If you can get the switch off it can be replaced or you can put it in an ultrasonic bath with IP Alcohol.

[benterrier]

Has anyone got pics of this modular unit. There's got to be a simpler cheaper fix. VAG are just taking the michael. 

[MoggyTech]

39 minutes ago, benterrier said:

Has anyone got pics of this modular unit. There's got to be a simpler cheaper fix. VAG are just taking the michael. 

I've seen images of various VAG DSG shifters over the years, and they are moulded plastic modules with plastic seam welds. 

To get to the switch, it's a safe bet you would have to destroy the damned unit.

[logiclee]

59 minutes ago, MattKing said:

If this indeed the failure mode its common with microswitches. I'm an engineer who works with sensors that use microswitches. One fix that will stop the problem for a while is to put a much higher voltage through and operate the switch. This burns the contaminated off the contacts. It is sometimes permanent but normally returns. If you can get the switch off it can be replaced or you can put it in an ultrasonic bath with IP Alcohol.

 

I'm not sure it's just a simple microswitch issue.

 

When I had the second lever replaced the Skoda tech mention there's a mixture of switches, hall effect sensors and small solenoids and some functions are canbus with the gearbox. He thought the fault was a canbus comms issue.

[MattKing]

1 hour ago, logiclee said:

 

I'm not sure it's just a simple microswitch issue.

 

When I had the second lever replaced the Skoda tech mention there's a mixture of switches, hall effect sensors and small solenoids and some functions are canbus with the gearbox. He thought the fault was a canbus comms issue.

If that's true, its a much more complex issue

[MoggyTech]

As the gear lever assembly has multiple positions, it stands to reason that it must contain multiple switches and or hall sensors.

if you think of a decent gaming joystick, the main axis are detected by hall sensors and magnets. Things like trigger switches are simple TAC switches, and it's these that fail.

 

My theory (and it's just educated guess work) is that the park position switch is some cheap micro switch. If all the gear stick positions were run through some rotary type mechanical switch, and it went noisy, the DSG display info on the maxidot would throw a hissy fit. The car wouldn't know if it was in drive, park, neutral etc etc. 

 

 

[OldBoyScout]

Today my factory fitted reversing camera failed to come on when I selected reverse, and this has happened previously, although it works fine most of the time. I had not previously connected it with the problem that we are discussing here, but now I am thinking it may well be related, as it seems to be another switch or sensor on the gear selector that is failing to correctly detect the position of the lever. I put the selector back into position P, and when I re-selected R the camera came on. Today I didn't get the position P error message, but think I may have seen it two weeks ago shortly after the reversing camera failed to work.

 

Has anything like this happened to anyone else on here?

 

[MoggyTech]

6 hours ago, OldBoyScout said:

Today my factory fitted reversing camera failed to come on when I selected reverse, and this has happened previously, although it works fine most of the time. I had not previously connected it with the problem that we are discussing here, but now I am thinking it may well be related, as it seems to be another switch or sensor on the gear selector that is failing to correctly detect the position of the lever. I put the selector back into position P, and when I re-selected R the camera came on. Today I didn't get the position P error message, but think I may have seen it two weeks ago shortly after the reversing camera failed to work.

 

Has anything like this happened to anyone else on here?

 

I think your diagnosis is spot on. Dirty/oxidised switches tend to be intermittent and moving the selector moves the switch contacts again. 

[Item]

FWIW Giltrap Skoda in Auckland have confirmed they will be fixing this for me gratis. 2016 vRS Petrol Wagon - just coming up to 6 months out of warranty.

 

They have also agreed to replace the creaking front bushes/mounts as well.

 

 

[logiclee]

5 hours ago, MoggyTech said:

I think your diagnosis is spot on. Dirty/oxidised switches tend to be intermittent and moving the selector moves the switch contacts again. 

 

Although my second lever failed at 5 weeks old.

[MoggyTech]

2 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

Although my second lever failed at 5 weeks old.

Oh man talk about frustrating! Seems like this is a poorly designed part. Between flaking chrome and sensor/switches faults.

Perhaps that's why the revised part is not due until the end of this year. Probably needs a complete re-design.

[KevC_Derby]

On 14/07/2019 at 08:36, MattKing said:

If this indeed the failure mode its common with microswitches. I'm an engineer who works with sensors that use microswitches. One fix that will stop the problem for a while is to put a much higher voltage through and operate the switch. This burns the contaminated off the contacts. It is sometimes permanent but normally returns. If you can get the switch off it can be replaced or you can put it in an ultrasonic bath with IP Alcohol.

 

I think you mean a higher current.

The contamination is more likely to be on the Connections and not the Contacts.

There is a difference between a Switch and a Sensor, a Sensor will be variable analogue output and the output will be monitored (4-20mA or 0.5-4.5v) and parameters will be set to determine position.

The Switch or Sensor will be sealed to at least IP65, submerging it won’t help the internals.

VAG ECU inputs have a whetting current that ensures a current larger than the minimum recommended switch rating is passed through the Switch.

I’d also guess that this is a SiL2 rated assembly and replacing the Switch or Sensor outside of an assembly line with verification equipment cannot guarantee the Safety Integrity Level of the repaired assembly.

Edited 16 July, 2019 by KevC_Derby

[MattKing]

10 minutes ago, KevC_Derby said:

 

I think you mean a higher current.

The contamination is more likely to be on the Connections and not the Contacts.

There is a difference between a Switch and a Sensor, a Sensor will be variable analogue output and the output will be monitored (4-20mA or 0.5-4.5v) and parameters will be set to determine position.

The Switch or Sensor will be sealed to at least IP65, submerging it won’t help the internals.

VAG ECU inputs have a whetting current that ensures a current larger than the minimum recommended switch rating is passed through the Switch.

I’d also guess that this is a SiL2 rated assembly and replacing the Switch or Sensor outside of an assembly line with verification equipment cannot guarantee the Safety Integrity Level of the repaired assembly.

Some of you points are correct, some maybe correct and some irrelevant. 

 

Regarding the last point on functional safety, I don't give a monkeys. If I repair it and put it back in and it works, who cares? 

[logiclee]

27 minutes ago, MoggyTech said:

Oh man talk about frustrating! Seems like this is a poorly designed part. Between flaking chrome and sensor/switches faults.

Perhaps that's why the revised part is not due until the end of this year. Probably needs a complete re-design.

 

My first lever was trouble free apart from flaking chrome.

 

My second lever started with the P Error after 5 weeks.

 

This why I think it's a design/manufacturing fault rather than dirt ingress or wear.

 

My third lever was OK but then 2nd/4th/6th Cultch pack started to slip.

Clutch pack was replaced but then started to get poor shifting/errors.

Mechatronic was changed but no improvement.

Clutch pack was changed again, the first new one was loosing comms with the gearbox, manufacturing defect again.

 

 

Lee

Edited 16 July, 2019 by logiclee

[OldBoyScout]

2 hours ago, MattKing said:

Regarding the last point on functional safety, I don't give a monkeys. If I repair it and put it back in and it works, who cares? 

Are you saying you will repair it yourself?

 

2 hours ago, KevC_Derby said:

I’d also guess that this is a SiL2 rated assembly and replacing the Switch or Sensor outside of an assembly line with verification equipment cannot guarantee the Safety Integrity Level of the repaired assembly.

Thinking about the safety angle. If the reversing camera is not working because position R is not being detected, will the reversing lights also not be working? I'm not sure, as the car can still reverse when it happens.

 

I'm thinking I may be looking at a fight to get the costs covered, as the warranty ran out in December 2017. I bought the car Approved Used rather than new, as it was ex demo. To possibly make things more complicated I bought it from a dealer 125 miles away in Grimsby who has since been taken over by another company. (I know that in theory this should not affect my rights). I will be taking this problem to my local dealer who has done all the maintenance since I bought it. They have also done all the maintenance on my other Skoda since I bought it from them almost 12 years ago, so that should count for something.

 

As there seems to be a revised part coming later in the year, I may just live with the problem until that part becomes available.