TMC traffic events no longer being received...firmware update required?

[Hillbilly23]

23 minutes ago, NigelR99 said:

Not quite true, modern VAG sat nav use mobile type data for TMC  so are not affected, it is the devices that use the RDS-TMC broadcast over FM radio that are.  Personally I can't believe someone at VAG didn't know it was going to happen, they could have apologised in advance for loss of service and discussed alternatives, but they chose not to. 

The only alternative now is something mounted on the dashboard which built in Nav systems were designed to replace. 

[NigelR99]

Well my 2017 Skoda would support Android auto if I paid for Smartlink to be enabled (£150?) however I feel I already paid for a working  satnav that I was, until earlier this year very happy with and I had no inclination to go down that route. 

[IanPerry316]

38 minutes ago, NigelR99 said:

Well my 2017 Skoda would support Android auto if I paid for Smartlink to be enabled (£150?) however I feel I already paid for a working  satnav that I was, until earlier this year very happy with and I had no inclination to go down that route. 

I struggled with the Sat Nav in my '23 facelift SEL & found that I could use GoogleMaps or Waze from my phone via Android Auto. (Latter two had to be downloaded to the phone of course).

I don't know whether Smartlink was/is enabled and haven't touched it since trying to circumvent the built-in SatNav. I believe Smartlink is an alternative (but basically similar) to Android Auto but of course didn't bother to try to link GoogleMaps or Waze other than with Android Auto.

Considering the complexities of the electronics in modern cars I managed to set it up with no problems (& have since ascertained a little more of the workings of the car's system so now I have a choice of three SatNavs  (greedy!) ) and am coping very well with this. 

The three options all have different properties/options of course, hence my having  all three active in the car - I can switch easily between them as required.

[Tell]

If we do get a DIY technical solution to hacking it onto the other provider can we have a big puff of smoke.

 

 

[NigelR99]

Things are different with a 2023 car. Without Smartlink enabled in my 2017 car Android Auto or apple CarPlay are simply not recognised by the MIB2 Infotainment device.  Smartlink enabling gives you access to them.

[Tell]

If its a pre 2020 car with mib2 AA or Car Play enabled that can be enabled by FeCs. Post 2020 it's a mib3. Skoda didn't vary from the VAG brand. The issue is with Mib2 standard and high units which Skoda call Amundsen and Columbus respectively. There is a toolkit and firmware updates that will give you AA / Car Play. They are developed by a network of enthusiasts that have unpicked Vag software. Something similar exists for standard unit. A retrofitter can enable the FeCs if the model was sold with navigation but not AA / Car Play and its a mib2 standard or high. 

 

Basically it's the units which ran from 2015 - 2019 mib2s which have fallen into the TMC trap. Post 2020 models including 2020, namely mib3 got connected services but you pay for them with a renewal license.  

[Hillbilly23]

3 hours ago, Tell said:

If its a pre 2020 car with mib2 AA or Car Play enabled that can be enabled by FeCs. Post 2020 it's a mib3. Skoda didn't vary from the VAG brand. The issue is with Mib2 standard and high units which Skoda call Amundsen and Columbus respectively. There is a toolkit and firmware updates that will give you AA / Car Play. They are developed by a network of enthusiasts that have unpicked Vag software. Something similar exists for standard unit. A retrofitter can enable the FeCs if the model was sold with navigation but not AA / Car Play and its a mib2 standard or high. 

 

Basically it's the units which ran from 2015 - 2019 mib2s which have fallen into the TMC trap. Post 2020 models including 2020, namely mib3 got connected services but you pay for them with a renewal license.  

Also Audi MMI3G are now without traffic info.

 

[joek666]

The obvious point here is that regardless of the cause of the Trafficmaster shutdown, the solution is quite clear and simple. Other car manufacturers (including but not limited to BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Ford, Renault and Jaguar Land Rover) are still paying INRIX for their vehicles to use TMC data. VAG have either neglected or consciously decided not to contract with INRIX following the Trafficmaster shutdown. Presumably to save a bit of money. This is exactly where we need to apply pressure - functionality from our vehicles has been abruptly disabled without forewarning, and VAG should take action to replace like for like so that our vehicles continue to function as they did before 1st April 2023 (or whatever the precise date was when Trafficmaster went belly up).

 

What's making this about a hundred times more difficult is how awful VAG customer service has been - constantly directing owners to their dealers for expensive and useless diagnostics when the answer is staring them in the face.  They should refund anyone that they directed to spend money on pointless main dealer diagnostics for a problem that THEY CAUSED. 

 

I've more or less made my mind up that my next car will not be Skoda/VAG because of they way they've handled this. Toyota seems like a safe bet...

 

 

[Hillbilly23]

1 hour ago, joek666 said:

The obvious point here is that regardless of the cause of the Trafficmaster shutdown, the solution is quite clear and simple. Other car manufacturers (including but not limited to BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Ford, Renault and Jaguar Land Rover) are still paying INRIX for their vehicles to use TMC data. VAG have either neglected or consciously decided not to contract with INRIX following the Trafficmaster shutdown. Presumably to save a bit of money. This is exactly where we need to apply pressure - functionality from our vehicles has been abruptly disabled without forewarning, and VAG should take action to replace like for like so that our vehicles continue to function as they did before 1st April 2023 (or whatever the precise date was when Trafficmaster went belly up).

 

What's making this about a hundred times more difficult is how awful VAG customer service has been - constantly directing owners to their dealers for expensive and useless diagnostics when the answer is staring them in the face.  They should refund anyone that they directed to spend money on pointless main dealer diagnostics for a problem that THEY CAUSED. 

 

I've more or less made my mind up that my next car will not be Skoda/VAG because of they way they've handled this. Toyota seems like a safe bet...

 

 

Absolutely agree. I have been looking at a Volvo as probably my next car.

[David55]

Honest John’s response 

[Mattnam]

Err isn’t the point that we CANT use the inbuilt sat nav because of this specific issue (or rather we can but won’t be able to route around hold ups)?  This that answer has fallen short of the mark

[Tell]

17 minutes ago, Mattnam said:

Err isn’t the point that we CANT use the inbuilt sat nav because of this specific issue (or rather we can but won’t be able to route around hold ups)?  This that answer has fallen short of the mark

He did an internet search of the boards and gave a garbage answer 😂. Telegraph is like that now.

[Hillbilly23]

2 minutes ago, Tell said:

He did an internet search of the boards and gave a garbage answer 😂. Telegraph is like that now.

Interesting article here - https://inrix.com/press-releases/garmin-live-traffic/. It is going back to a separate unit but no fees to pay.

 

[Hillbilly23]

Just had a request to do a Customer Service survey on how Audi dealt with my recent contact about RDS-TMC. As I am sure you can imagine it was NOT a glowing response I gave them.

[dgc188]

Likewise, I had a survey from Skoda - it won't be a pleasant read for them I'm sure. Certainly not complimentary in any shape or form. And they sent me a 2nd survey form. Let me think what I'll put in that one! I've yet to visit the local dealer - later this week maybe.

 

Thinking about things, I wonder just how many VAG drivers that have this issue with their sat.navs are actually aware that TMC is no longer working. I certainly wasn't aware until I needed it on the first trip out with the caravan a week or so ago with the prospect of holdups on the M62 and looking for a diversionary route. And then just how many have made the effort of contacting their dealer (or direct). I would expect it to be quite a small minority of those actually affected, who maybe don't know it yet or just can't be bothered, thinking it's just an temporary outage. Based upon that I can possibly see why VAG are not rushing to fix the issue and putting the traffic onto DAB and INRIX. Forget TMC/FM - FM's reportedly going to be dead in a few years anyway.

I note that the Garmin sat.nav (the Dezi 760LMT-Digital) that has DAB/INRIX traffic (referenced above by the article from 2012) has, it might appear, since been discontinued according to some sites, but might still be available form Garmin itself - albeit with a 5-8 week delivery. Even Garmin have now gone down the smartphone/app route.

 

So, unless there's someone in the know of how this all hangs together (outside of VAG) then I think we're stuffed on getting VAG to fix it. Here's to the hobbyist, may they never die.

 

[Hillbilly23]

I think FM radio has a good few years left to run yet as there are loads of cars on the roads that do not have DAB receivers. INRIX will be running for another 7-8 years at least so there is no reason not to do it over FM radio (Classic) as this service is still running via INRIX on older cars.

 

[dgc188]

I recall "them" saying FM would be dead by 2020 - well that's gone by. Then I heard 2025 - that's not far away. Then I've heard 2030. Goalpost movement? Where to next?

 

I agree, there's a good many FM radios still in daily use, and not just in cars (personally I prefer the better quality of FM - but that' another story). I recall when analog TVs went to the digital service - that cost me a couple of TVs to keep being able to watch the thing. So, one day, I can see the same thing happening with FM, maybe even DAB as well, with it all going on-line.

 

If these sat.navs can be got working by whatever means and by whoever (the hobbyist probably) - be it FM or DAB - it might give a bit of a breathing space for when FM does finally go.

 

[Tell]

On 03/06/2023 at 14:49, Hillbilly23 said:

The only alternative now is something mounted on the dashboard which built in Nav systems were designed to replace. 

Well it's Android Auto or Car Play if you bought the car with the licence. VAG on MIB2 licence what you can use. Most VAG vehicles least on the Seat side were sold fully licensed for Android Auto / Car Play. Pass on Audi. Elsewhere, out of the UK, they may well be sold differently. I seem to come across German posters on boards without Android Auto / Car Play installed. In the UK dealers would sell the cars as built in maps are use less, use your phone. Might be OK if you live in a good 4G spot and people say download the maps if you don't. If you have TSR you want to use the built in system. There is a reason for integration. I wouldn't trust my smart device to have a blip whilst you are driving.

 

 

[Tell]

26 minutes ago, dgc188 said:

I recall "them" saying FM would be dead by 2020 - well that's gone by. Then I heard 2025 - that's not far away. Then I've heard 2030. Goalpost movement? Where to next?

 

I agree, there's a good many FM radios still in daily use, and not just in cars (personally I prefer the better quality of FM - but that' another story). I recall when analog TVs went to the digital service - that cost me a couple of TVs to keep being able to watch the thing. So, one day, I can see the same thing happening with FM, maybe even DAB as well, with it all going on-line.

 

If these sat.navs can be got working by whatever means and by whoever (the hobbyist probably) - be it FM or DAB - it might give a bit of a breathing space for when FM does finally go.

 

 

FM the Government wanted to sell the FM band, they have gone off that now. In Eire DAB has been closed down so only FM.

 

The Government also wants to sell the Freeview band as well giving public broadcasters an issue. The right have been plotting that for a time. It's gone away at the minute. Technically, Freesat could get discontinued if Sky get everyone onto broadband reception. Cake and eat it.

 

[Mattnam]

40 minutes ago, Tell said:

Well it's Android Auto or Car Play if you bought the car with the licence. VAG on MIB2 licence what you can use. Most VAG vehicles least on the Seat side were sold fully licensed for Android Auto / Car Play. Pass on Audi. Elsewhere, out of the UK, they may well be sold differently. I seem to come across German posters on boards without Android Auto / Car Play installed. In the UK dealers would sell the cars as built in maps are use less, use your phone. Might be OK if you live in a good 4G spot and people say download the maps if you don't. If you have TSR you want to use the built in system. There is a reason for integration. I wouldn't trust my smart device to have a blip whilst you are driving.

 

 

My unit can use Carplay no issues and no licencing (just works).

 

In other news I spoke to Skoda Customer Services today, the chap was nice but clueless as there's NOTHING on their system about any issues, so does make me wonder if ANY of the calls we've made are actually being logged?

[Breezy_Pete]

Just now, Mattnam said:

there's NOTHING on their system about any issues

They're very competent liars.

[Tell]

57 minutes ago, Mattnam said:

My unit can use Carplay no issues and no licencing (just works).

 

In other news I spoke to Skoda Customer Services today, the chap was nice but clueless as there's NOTHING on their system about any issues, so does make me wonder if ANY of the calls we've made are actually being logged?

Yes the units are scalable on how they want to sell them. Skoda and VW got free map updates on the built-in one whilst Seat and Audi didn't. The FeC controls what is unlocked in them in how it behaves. Like buying a TV which is 4k but only works in HD since it was cheaper to make them with all bells and whistles but selling them at different price points under software control. That the Function enablement code (FeC). That's how they get the variations between what is sold by country, model and brand. All core hardware and software. The firmware is specific but people do install the wrong brand onto their cars so you'll see people say that is Skoda software on a Seat etc. They got hold of the wrong file. The actual mib2 unit can be installed across brands, same hardware.

 

At the end of the day people have to do their own research on what they are buying not be suckered into the sales speal or think they can upgrade after. Some can't be.

[BionicJohn]

I've had similar reply from Skoda, pleading ignorance:

 

"Thank you for your patience. We understand your frustration and apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

 

We are currently still verifying your complaint regarding non-functional TMC with the responsible department and we are addressing the issue with the highest priority. We are doing our best to resolve the issue as soon as possible.

 

Once again, thank you for your patience and understanding.

 

For any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

With kind regards,

 

Support for Digital Services ŠKODA AUTO a.s     "

[Hillbilly23]

1 hour ago, BionicJohn said:

I've had similar reply from Skoda, pleading ignorance:

 

"Thank you for your patience. We understand your frustration and apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

 

We are currently still verifying your complaint regarding non-functional TMC with the responsible department and we are addressing the issue with the highest priority. We are doing our best to resolve the issue as soon as possible.

 

Once again, thank you for your patience and understanding.

 

For any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

With kind regards,

 

Support for Digital Services ŠKODA AUTO a.s     "

They are working at playing dumb until we go away.😡

[PetrolDave]

On 03/06/2023 at 19:28, Tell said:

Basically it's the units which ran from 2015 - 2019 mib2s which have fallen into the TMC trap. Post 2020 models including 2020, namely mib3 got connected services but you pay for them with a renewal license.  

Does it not also affect pre 2015 MIB1 units as these also rely on Trafficmaster TMC for traffic data?